picture if helpful of my rose garden.

Here is a link that might be useful: yahoo

I live in hot!! arizona I have 30 mini roses as well as 32 standard roses. most are in a planter similar to yours. I deadhead as needed and don`t use any special soil. fertilize with miracle grow rose during the spring and fall growing seasons. Prune them all vrery well in January and do nothing else until March and then deadhead as needed and fertilize every two weeks until end of May and then do nothing until September and then deadhead and fertilize as done in Spring. mine do very well on this regime here in the extreme hot weather we get.they are blooming now.

Hi lesdvs, I saw your post on the roses forum and toddled over here to make stab at helping you out. I usually fertilize for the last time in Sept here-except for roses in containers (which most of my minis are) which continue to get a mild water soluble plant food till about Halloween unless we get frost before then.I had roses blooming in Nov. last year but it was a mild fall. If you get frost in the fall there is not much point in fertilizing now which would push tender new growth subject to damage..kind of a waste of your fert ! If you don't have that issue, I would still use mild fert, like fish emulsion ; but do stop at some point to let your roses rest. I would not feed again till new growth starts in spring.If your ph is higher than
6.5 or 7 maybe you have a slight issue because plants do not take up nutrients at extreme high ph's- but extreme would be over 7 . Soil sulphur is usually recomended to correct this. It sounnds like you have been diligent in improving your soil and it's great that you test it. The soil is everything ! If you get it right you can really limit the amount of ferts you need to use . I use alfalfa meal in spring and Dr Earth organic rose food twice in the summer and thats it for me. But I dump compost on continuously all year, either homemade bought if needed..
Hope this helps
Kathy in the Napa Valley

Hey thanks, I appreciate the comments, janw & dodgerdudette:) I've been all over the rose forums looking and seeing the "I'm tired of answering the newbie questions" and kinda cringed at asking but I've got a lot of money tied up in my roses. While we were waiting for our house to be built I got my first twelve minis and potted them last spring, I can not grow minis in pots, the mini nursery, I use Sequoia Nursery, threw in my old favorite, Cal Poly, that I used to grow years ago as a freebie for buying a dozen, and it's the only one who survived our freak early summer. The week we moved it hit 110 on that Mon. and 117 by the Fri we finished and the only mini to survive was the free yellow climber. I waited a week and gulp, I stupidly transplanted it in 110 depree heat to the corner of the back yard and after two weeks of waffling, it's growing quite well. The first of Sept. I took my receipt back to the nursery and they replaced the 12 plants I killed and I bought the 3 - 6" plants as well and I told the rest of the story.

I went on vacation last week and that was the last time I fertilized the roses. Soomer or later winter will catch up, the nights are cooling off, it seems like we only get the 70s for a couple of weeks and then bang we're in the 60's or lower. So, thanks for the advice, I think I'll let my roses "set" their new growth, they are all doing pretty well, I just wanted to have "full" roses next spring and summer to sit outside in the morning and have my coffee and look and and smell. About a quarter of the bushes have single flowers and I have several mini vases and I cut the flowers and put them throughout the house to enjoy also.

Your advice is what I used to do, let them do their own thing over the winter and prune them in the spring before the new growth starts, I always thought the old growth and the rose hips helped protect them in the winter. I said I was rusty. I appreciate the responses, thanks for coming over to minis, roses are roses and zones are just areas, problems are universal, sorry I have terrible headaches and my focus is lousy:)

But, dodgerdudette, you say soil sulfer, would that be like amonia sulfate like we put to green up the lawn or what we put on the azaleas to make the soil more acid?

lesdvs, the sulfate of amonia you put on your lawn is a very hot high nitrogen fertilizer ,this would not lower ph. The hydrangea stuff is aluminum sulfate which is used to "blue" them up,and does create a more acid enviornment.Soil Sulfur comes in 5, 10 even sometimes 20 lb bags and is used over time to lower ph. However, if your ph is under 7 I would not think you need to do anything, and avoiding chemical fertilizers may help as well...
Kathy in Napa

I just went out and checked my ph is all the way alkaline, which is an 8, however my roses don't seem to care. It's my sister who's insisting I need to doctor my roses. I say if it's not broke don't fix it. However if during the winter when they go dormant is a good time to add something to the soil like you're suggesting I will. I looked at Lowe's when I was looking for something for my azaleas and they didn't have what I needed, can't think of the name now, jeez I'm really rusty on gardening. I couldn't grow anything that I am now in the mountains and again it's been 14 years since I've grown roses and the plants I have now. I appreciate any help I can get. Soil Sulfer then maybe at the nursery? Thanks. Leslie

Hi Leslie, yes you probably won't find soil sulfur at a place like Loews, only at a full service garden center.8 is a high ph ! As you said I would test again after a bit of rain..
Kathy in Napa

That test was this morning after it rained last night. The bed tested that way before during and after I "fixed" it. I'm frustrated but the roses seem to like it. So I guess I'm worrying only because my sister in Oregon is so sure my roses are going to fail. I'm going to be hitting a nursery up for a couple of trees soon. We'd like to plant a Redwood, I know very slow growing but what we want, it's a specific redwood, I forget the name at the moment and either a second one or I really want a wisteria on the other side of the yard if I can get the opinion if I can keep up with the growth. I understand that if I grow it as a tree it can get up to 45 feet which is what I want. I have a 2 story kitty corner behind me that is soon to have occupants. When my cats got lost right after we moved in I went up there to look out the windows, there's a ponding basin behind us, we chose this lot on purpose so that no one will ever build behind us. That might bring a host of future problems.... Anyways, without leaning out I could see all the way into my house with my blinds up, so I vote for either tree for that side of the house, the wisteria would definitely grow the fastest, I want something really tall that will eventually be totally privacy for us because I want my blinds up for air at night... I like fresh air.

ok, back to the sulfur, I'll try the nursury. I checked on my azaleas and it says they could use some too for some more acidity. I appreciate it.

I looked back at your question on the rose forum and this puts it back on the "newbie" questions on soil conditions but I'm bouncing around alot myself and you're probably seeing me around and I plan on sticking around and one day I hope to be sharing my experience with someone that you're sharing with me. I believe in "pass it on". Thanks.

I love rose pictures. I was out there with my digital trying to get my minis, I got my crocus' spring before last just perfect, guess I'm really rusty with that too, I just can't get the rose, I can get a leaf, just not the rose...LOL...Anyways, Thanks alot for your time bouncing over to the mini section. Leslie

leslie,

I live on limestone and my soil is very sweet too. I would skip the sulfer, you will never be able to adjust your soil enough to get down to "normal" ranges. Instead I would suggest getting a bag of greensand from a garden store and treating your roses every 4 to 6 months. Greensand is a mineral that helps roses pull what they need out of sweet soil. Otherwise I agree with dodger, feed 'em through your growing seasons with a fertilizer, let 'em rest in the winter - my minis do fine on this regiment.

I don't get what greensand is, a chemical or just a type of sand, I'm not adverse to either, just asking. Spread it on top of the soil or it in or put it around the roses? I currently have lots of blooms on all my new minis with the exception of a couple and they have new growth. Apparently they don't know they're not supposed to grow in alkaline soil.

I did get some sulfer and mixed it lightly in the soil about 4 to 6 inches in about 6 to 8" from each of the roses, I was afraid of disturbing my roses though. They are doing so well. I don't feel they're fragile, just I'm enjoying the heck out of them, they're not sick they don't have any diseases, they don't have aphids or anything else knock on wood, if it's not broke don't fix it....

I am interested in what you're saying. It makes sense, it's what I was doing, I quit fertilizing the next to last week in Sept. so that all this new growth would slowly stop and harden up whenever we stop having warm weather. You're right, nothing I do seems to change the soil. You're correct.

Thanks for talking with me, can you tell me more what you're meaning about this sand?? I'd given up on this thread. Leslie

If it aint broke, don't try to fix it. You can really mess things up real good. I know.

Ok, so start worrying then when the roses start stressing which currently they aren't, they are all in various stages of budding and blooming. I believe in that thought. Thanks for the input. Leslie

I am sorry I did not post back sooner, I have too many plates in the air! I apply about 1/4 cup of greensand around the base of my roses and then water well. When I do this I scrape back the mulch so it will go directly to the roots.

I don't understand the mechanism, its somehow allows plants in sweet soil like ours to unlock what the need from the soil? Its what the organic gurus in my aread suggest and it works!

I do it about every 4 months - although if I see I have a rose that's looking a little distressed I will give it more greensand and compost before I do anything else. Usually that takes care of any issues.

I think if you make sure the little plants are always mulched and get plenty of water, everything else will fall into place. The soil just improves every year that you mulch and the roses improve along with the soil.

Thank you both, I'd given up on the thread and only check back periodically like today. I thought in the spring I'd try the alfalfa tea thing out on them and the hybrid teas and other larger roses I want to plant in the new area I'm preparing now. I'm going to try a different combination in with the clay soil there than I did with the mini garden and see if I can get a better ph. Someone will probably argue this but I saw somewhere on the internet that where ever a weed can grow, so to can a rose....Wish I remember where exactly I saw that.... Thank you I will keep the green sand in mind should I need help and thanks, I did go ahead and put down cocoa mulch and the roses seem to like that:) Leslie

Have you considered worm castings?

They're super nutritious, Ph neutral and make existing nutrients more readily available to the roots. They also aid in moisture absorption. Besides suffocating the roots, clay soil is electromagnetically charged which can lock up the moisture. (You may test at a good moisture level but little of it can be taken up by the roots).

Maybe a generous top dressing of worm castings will persuade your sister that roses love you!

G'luck!

Hi Cora! Where'd you go? Did you know we wanted to know how planting your roses went on your thread?? How are your roses?

Anyways, I'll bite.. Where do you get worm castings? A bait shop? That sounds innocuous enough... I'b be game to try that and this seems like a good time of year to do it.

I hope you check back.. Leslie

Leslie, greensand does nothing for ph. It is a source of phosphorus and potash. Certain chemicals are available at certain ph levels. At your 8ph you are losing phosphorus, iron,manganese,boron and zinc. The only way to get those elements back in range is to lower your ph. You said if it ain't broke don't fix it. Well you don't know it yet but you will have have problems unless they are fixed. With your problem right now your blooms will get smaller, and your leaves won't be so green. Go on the internet and research soil ph. PH is the single thing that can make or break a garden. If the ph isn't right, your fertilizer can't do its job right.

Dan, I have researched soil and I don't understand any of it. I did mix some sulfer in and I mulched heavily just before we hit the 20's at night. This photo was taken just after I discovered worms in my garden signifying that I must be doing something correctly with my soil. I not only heavily amended and totilled the clay soil down several feet but added about a foot of rich miracle gro rose soil. Someone else told me I'm reading my tester wrong that the soil is acid not alkaline so the next time I get over to Lowe's I'm picking up a different kind of soil tester and see what it says now after we've had some decent rain mixing all the soils and mulch together.

What I did read and understand was short of pulling everything out of this bed and starting over there isn't anyway of amending the soil. In the spring I intend to try out this alfalfa tea and go from there.

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