I guess we should better discuss this on my veranda, with a cup of Earl Grey or a beverage of your choice at some rainy monsoon day. But yep, I am here since a while and I have no intention to leave soon ;-) I truly live at a remote place, where C.I.A agents use to open various "churches" with names like "Whiter shade of pale" - actually as a cover front for there observer jobs near the Burmese border LOL! And yet they talk too much when they're completely wasted. But that doesn't mean that I have no insight in what happens at key places around the world. Btw: I've only been once in the U.S. If I remember well, it was in late 1979 or 80 at Atlanta airport for 4 hours in transit to Mexico City, on the way to Guatemala. I've never returned for "a reason" and If id' bluntly say what I think of the american way of life, dream - and all the rest of it, I'd probably not be able to fight all of you back anymore. If it helps, I've got a "news ticker" not even an hour ago, you know what it says? " Greed and pyramid schemes on the rise in Thailand!" LOL You must have noticed that I am not a native speaker in English language and that my cultural, educational and other backgrounds are indeed diametrically different ;-) Nevertheless, - wherever you look, wherever you go, the proportion and the kind of pollution, waste, and the whole enchilada that goes with it doesn't change that much. Do you think that in S.E.A there is widely accepted ecological thinking or anything even remotely related. Nope my friend, the conditions here are to be compared with the state of the art of the US in the 70ies. Most importantly the real reason (as mentioned earlier) ignorance, irresponsibility and greed are everywhere and always the same. Hence I still believe that there are too many trees to mention to bark at first, respectively before it's the turn of hydroponics. Truth to be told, though: I am actually about to lunch a whole product line for hydroponics and in fact I am not at all neutral with this topic. ;-) In case anyone is trying to opportunistically turn this against me now, it would be the very last "personal" information I'd ever share here again. If you're interested on the other hand, catch me as long as you can. As I will be very busy, very soon....

But let me try again to make myself at least more clear and hopefully unmistakably about the main subject (I of course agree with that point). What about exact NUTRITIONAL VALUE one can actually achieve through growing with hydroponics and specific mixes? I have to admit that I have little knowledge about scientific data on this particular topic. During the topic I started about "taste and flavour" with hydroponics, gringojay came up with many information that was truly interesting. But I guess that on the topic of nutritional value, scientific data should be more conclusive -as taste is and remains a rather subjective matter after all. With this topic we also understood that nutrients have clear limitations concerning taste, as some of the taste may come through decomposition processes in the soil. What about proper nutritional facts, may there be limits too, compared to soil culture? Ones intentions and goals are one part of the equation only, aren't they? Have you investigated the topic from your side (but from a objective and rather scientific perspective), and what is the outcome and your conclusion? No test here or any other hidden alogations - I am truly interest and curious.

georgeiii Another proverb from the book your writing I see. But yet again posted as truth without any verification whatsoever. Simply repeating something to death dosen't make it true. And Yes I do know what a FAQ is? For the people in the real world (planet earth) it's short for "Frequently Asked Questions." But Yet again your wanting to make up your own reality in whatever world it is you live in. Not to mention your being so hypocritical with that statement/untrue definition it's simply laughable. You want to say I only know what I'm told, yet your the one trying to get me to believe what you tell me to believe, and without any verification of it (laughing to death with that). That is the true definition of hypocritical there georgeiii (on planet earth anyway). Now that I stopped laughing once more, I can finally type again. It's so funny to me that you should say "the internet is clogged with these one page wonders cause their no deeper than a page." Yet your the KING of being a one page NO-wonder. You post a couple threads in a forum, a few pictures that don't prove squat, refuse to post anything from reputable sources to back it up, and yet you think that makes you an authority in the field of hydroponics, thus demand to be respected as such without question (hypocritical, hypocritical, hypocritical, hypocritical). I have taken many pictures of my progress, both good and bad. But I refuse to use a third party website like photobucket (or any such websites) to store them just so I can link to it from a forum. The only reason that's even necessary here is because this forum's software is so out of date, and wont allow you to upload them directly from your computer. Thus making it necessary to use third party websites to link to them. Not only do I have hundreds of pictures of the things I have grown, but I also use software that allows me to make 3D drawings of the systems. I use that to make drawings of systems I have done, as well as ones I wish to build, or even whatever may come to mind as a concept. Unfortunately for someone as financially challenged (I guess is the politically correct term for, poor) as me, there are many more plans to build, than things built. I haven't had the money to even buy nutrients for months. But I have had the good fortune to have access to money to build a commercial greenhouse. Witch is where I spend my time and money these days. Once operational it will provide me with an income of between $30,000 and $50,000 a year (after operating expenses). Rich, no, pay the bills, yes. But it is the catalyst I need to expand the business into one that will not only provide high quality produce to our community, but for lower prices, and year round. As well as even allow me to higher people from our community. Thus helping our local economy in multiple ways. Thanks for asking. As usual I take plenty of pictures, to date I have 353 MB of pictures on the greenhouse build alone. I have been in construction since mid September (been planing it for 1-1/2 years), and right now I'm about 2 months behind scheduled (from where I expected to be in the build). But I need to come up with about $1000 more to complete everything. Total cost will be about $6,500 when finished. that includes the greenhouse itself (200 sq feet), 3 in-ground 275 gallon reservoirs, custom built hydroponic systems, pluming them all, cooling and ventilation systems, electrical to run everything (including 3 new breakers), business licensing etc.. However that dosen't include the propagation system. I'll be starting the first plants in the hydro systems, then use the funds/profits to build a propagation system in order to increase productivity. If I had the money right now I would be about two weeks from starting seeds (2 months from having an income). I'm also registered for a free class given by the SBDC (Small Business Development Center) on Feb 13, on business tax/retail tax that I will be attending. P.S. Hall monitor? Good one. I guess when nobody else in class wants to speak up, that just puts you at the head of the class by default (and you somehow become hall monitor too). But I never even wanted the position. I have always preferred to sit in the back row of class myself. Though if I have somehow been designated hall monitor, it wont change anything. Front of the class or in the back row, I'll still speak up when I feel it's important.

Not really. As long as you have 20 foot ceilings. Ha! They don't stop growing in my experience. I had a supersweet vf 100 out in the garden a couple years ago that was at least 12 feet. All the producing growth would eventually stop once ripened since new growth would take over so all the lower stuff would be pruned as it died off. That keeps going and going. I had about 10 feet of coiled up vine and the rest filled out with tomatoes hanging from my fence. Eventually winter came and it died. I don't know if there is a way to top them and keep them smaller since the lower growth always wants to die off in lieu of new growth. Someone more experienced with tomatoes may be able to answer that. Another weird thing is that I have gotten multiple harvests out of determinate which by definition are supposed to produce and die. Not hydro but out in the garden. But with hydro those red robin are listed as determinate and I am going on my third production. I guess they didn't get the memo : ). That's why I consider them semi. I have grown roma inside which were determinate but it got too big so I removed it after a bunch of tomatoes so I never saw if I could get that to produce more as a determinate variety. Hopefully someone with more tomato experience can chime in.