I've had the opportunity to work at an Arboretum ( Arnold ) and two estate gardens in California ( Filoli and a private estate )

I would probably still be working in this line of work if it wasn't for my personal desire to design gardens.

I thoroughly enjoyed the financial benefits of having a steady reliable pay check and the friendship + networking with my co-workers was great.

I also enjoyed the educational aspect of working at an Arboretum and a public estate garden.
Working at the private estate garden also had its benefits too but was less fulfilling to my artist side and ultimately that is what did me in.

I think alot of your decision will be determined by your personality along with the management style of the garden that you will be working in.
If you have someone in management that oversees your work but is not into micromanagement and also lets you express your own creativity on the job then it can be a wonderful win-win experience for everybody involved.

When did you work at the Arnold? I know some folk from there.

I haven't been the gardener for a single client but I know people who have. As you would imagine, it can be great and it can be hell depending on the owners. Some gardeners find a degree of creative freedom, decent money, benefits, appreciative clients, etc. - basically a nice gig if your creative ambitions don't stretch too far.
On the flip side extremely wealthy people sometimes live in an alternate reality (being polite here). In that situation you can become a modern-day serf with no creative freedom and rude, unappreciative employers who make crazy demands. Also, sometimes the owners can be nice but their children and/or grandchildren turn out to be monsters.
Your description of being a gardener at a large public garden is on the money.

When did you work at the Arnold? I know some folk from there.
In 1986. Gary Koller was heading up Jamaica Plain, with Nan Sinton and Peter DelTredici at his side. Patrick Willoughby was incharge of the Case Estates.
I primarily worked at the Case Estate and came into Jaimaca Plain once a week.

A large component of my business comes from managing one estate garden. I got lucky, and have clients who are appreciative of our hard work. My crew and I are there about three days a week, and on the other two, we pursue other interests, including design and installation projects, along with periodic maintenance.

Most of the time this works out great, and I like the feeling of stability I get from knowing that if for any reason the estate gardening job goes away, I have a foundation elsewhere. It's also important to me to continue to develop my skills and pursue new creative outlets, exploring garden design styles which are not in the cottage garden vernacular, the prevalent (high maintenance) style in this garden.

We are extremely fortunate to work for our estate clients, and though it is a rarefied atmosphere, we do our own part to make sure that client relations are always nurtured. Need the basement cleaned out? Sure. Need us to get the pool cover repaired? You got it. In other words, it is very rare when we say we can't do something to their specifications, on demand. This requires extraordinary flexibility on my part, and on the part of my crew. The crew is well trained, and the mantra is "Yes, I think I can do that. Let me look into the details and get right back to you." Fortunately, they are reasonable and appreciative people, and there have been few instances when we're been unable or unwilling to meet their demands. We do most things, but we don't do gutters on a two story building. We do, however, hire a gutter cleaning service on their behalf, and make damn sure the company carries the appropriate worker's comp and liability policies. We also contract on their behalf with professionals such as arborists or painting contractors.

One key to the happy relations is careful documentation of daily tasks completed. I and my crew keep detailed records of our activities, and submit them, along with our work schedule, on a monthly basis. This is not something my client asked for, we just do it. It helps clarify things for everyone, and the documentation helps us to develop maintenance plans each year, which are continually refined. This allows us to be proactive and anticipate the client's needs before they think of them on their own. This gives us more flexibility and creative input. Once a client understands that you are going to take care of them without being constantly reminded of your obligations to them, a wonderful level of trust can be achieved, but we never be taken for granted, and I think that has a lot to do with the excellent relationship.

The winter slow-down issues don't apply so much to us, because we're in the Bay Area of California, and work all year round. We called off work once this season, and this is during a period of unusually heavy rain. There is always something to do, even if it's cutting the (blasted! yeah, I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat if they'd let me!) ivy away from the bases of trees and shrubs.

So, that's my experience.... Some caveats, now. I would have to consider the situation very carefully before I started working for one client exclusively. I would never "live-in". Your time is never your own, and I'm a bit of a privacy freak. I would make very clear arrangements about when and how you are paid. Ask the client to set up something with an automatic payroll service, so that you get a steady paycheck, with them paying their share of Social Security, etc. No "independent contractor" stuff unless you are truly independent, and if you're working exclusively for them, full time, you are an employee, not an independent contractor.

I would ask for a three-month evaluation meeting, just to get a sense of how things are going for everyone. Then, if it's not working out for any reason, you could agree to part ways amicably. This puts everyone on good behavior for the all-important spring rush. And, finally, (you proabably already know this one), work your tail off during those first three months so that whether or not you end up wanting to stay, *they* want you to stay.

Oh yeah, and, if I were you, I'd go for the winter break if at all financially feasible.

Best of luck!

I ran a large estate at a very young age....
pay was great, owners were great, co-workers were lazy incompetent bafoons.
I was in charge of the gardens, there was a seperate crew for tree/lawn care, a seperate crew for nanny/cooking duties, etc etc.

My biggest issue was the co-workers, after a decade on an estate they had grown weak in thier overpay and cushy lifestyle... Plus they were kiss-arses to the owner, which strikes a cord with me, as I have a tendency to tell the truth at any cost.
After two years, I told the owner it was time for me to go, he offered to more than double my salary, but it just wasn't for me. (looking back I shoulda worked another year to have a bigger bankroll when I started my current business's).

Pros:
Working with alot of really interesting people. I got to meet Martha Stewart and work on a garden with Penelope Hobhouse.

Cons:
Working with people that got winded picking up a chainsaw, let alone having to actually use one... Plus there were alot of quirky things, like the gravel driveway needed to be raked after anyone drove over it.

Ohh and btw, this was in the Peapack-Gladstone area of New Jersey

drew

Wow! Thanks for the responses folks. I had no idea so many of you have done estate work. Please keep the stories coming.

Mich I guess you wouldn't know the guy I know. He is not much older then me so would have likely been just getting out of HS in 86. I did see Peter DelTredici speak last year though.

Thank you for the info and advice everyone. I took notes. I sent my resume and references out this morning. I also made up a portfolio of some of my work. I am afraid I will likely be applying with people with many years experience so I hope my background and education will be enough to impress. I'll keep you all posted.

Cheers.

As others have mentioned, it's not a bad gig if you get along with the owners. Of course, that can be said about any job...

I worked for nearly 5 years on a large property, lived on site, got on well with my boss (very generous people) and had the good fortune to have a very large budget for lots and lots of interesting plants. That made up for a lot of the niggling stuff, like rides for their kids, etc. Unlike institutional work situations, rich people really do have money, and some are willing to spend it.

When my duties got expanded to helping the owner with his hobby farm of a 100 head cow/calf operation - well, I was a pretty decent gardener and property manager, but turns out I was not a cowboy! Time to move on....

Good luck with your employment search - the opportunity for a very good experience can be found in this gardening niche.

Brian

The meticulous documentation idea is good, as long as the owners are amenable to it. Sounds like it worked out great. So many of the problems that tend to come up - see other replies - would be eliminated by this approach.

I would keep a gardener's log the way a ship's captain keeps a log to keep track of everything -- event, task, weather change, etc. -- on a daily basis. Staple the day's receipts (purchases, services paid for) to each page.

It's really not hard to get into the habit of documenting your daily accomplishments. It's just that, a habit, and it take minutes a day for the crew and myself to document our work. Most other professions rely on these types of systems, there is no reason that a gardener or gardening service should not do the same, particularly when you are billing thousands of dollars per month, as in an intensively maintained estate setting.

I like your idea of keeping a chronological file of receipts in a log book. We do something similar, but the receipts are separate from our "Action Book", where all of our activities are recorded.

Though we don't submit copies of receipts (just too much paper for our client to deal with), we do itemize the totals on our invoices, and note who the retailer was if it's a retail purchase for reimbursement, along with a general description, i.e., "annual and perennial color for the driveway beds".

I take a reasonable markup on wholesale purchases, and choose to be very transparent with the client about it. I show my percentage on the invoice. They know that they're getting much better plant material at a slightly better price than retail. Others do this differently, but this works for me. Of course, if you're an employee, that would not be an issue.

Again, all that documentation might seem like a pain, but there is no better feeling than knowing that you can always look the client in the eye and back up every charge on an invoice, should they ever have a question.

They received my resume. I worked really hard on making it stand out so hopefully that will pay off. And I hope that they contact all my references as they are all very good.

Anyway I will be employed by them and part of the staff but a log of my work is still a good idea.

Lots of good ideas here folk. I hope that I get the job and am able to put them to use. :)

Keep us posted, Clematis!

Kaveh,
I agree with Nan. Times have changed, be careful. Records and bookkeeping do not matter, people do.

Bruce

After having worked as an estate gardener for close to 2 decades for several owners, I would reccomend several things:
Work as an hourly independent. If you don't you will feel indentured. As an independent, you have powers of negotiation. You will be a business owner. It will be much easier to walk away if you need to. You won't resent dropping kids off at school, putting up xmas trees or cleaning out attics because the meter is running. Increasing your rate is an annual pleasure. The most important factor are the owners. They can be hands off or down right tyrants. A neighboring gardener I know is routineley toyed with by a client who wakes him on sunday morns, makes him drive 25mi to pick up goose poop. If your lucky you can get clients who winter 6mos/yr down south, you can create what you want (nothing like spending other people's money!) and bill them. Often you will only hear feedback when you do something wrong. But it can be a great job, kinda like being a little park ranger.

I too am eager to find out the pros and cons of this type of employment.

I am in the process of negoiating a contract for a full-time gardening postition on a 26,000 acre estate in northeast Florida and am uncertain what kind of annual salary I should request(Standard health benefits are provided). I have a Bachelors degree in design, over 10 years gardening experience including zoological gardens and container gardening design in Chicago, most of them for below average wages.
The owner encouraged me to come up with compensation that takes into account all the skills I bring to the table. What's the most I can ask for without appearing greedy?????

Wow, 26K acres? How much of it is managed, rather than wild?-if you have any kind of protected wetlands, you will need to deal w/ govt regulations & setbacks. Will you be in a supervisory position, w/ a regular staff or just supervising contract crews? Will you be operating a greenhouse?

Also, think of it this way-just what are you going to offer them for the salary? If I were in their position, if I wasn't hiring an extremely competant, well organized,(& it goes w/out saying, hard-working) person, w/ a detailed management plan (& I'm in no way implying you are not all of these things), I'd contract w/ a large firm for maintenance & installations...

I do private homes here in the Orlando area and it is the best work one could have! The benefits can be more lucrative than many top paid executive jobs. I did many VIP homes when I worked for Disney where I got my first start.

Cartaking of a home is a great way to get involved in many things including gardening and like we do, "never say no" to anything unless its way beyond your skills level ( because you don't want to screw up something). I even had to buy a book on metal and wood polishing so I could assist in the maintainence of one of my customers yachts.

It's a fun and rewarding carrier to have. Just make sure you draw up a contract and have them sigh it. I have a great one I use and it's for everything. I got it from legal zoom.com but I had to modify it to fit my business. Don't forget your liability insurance and get yourself bonded.

Good Luck!

Hi! I am looking at a house with 5 acres of gardens and lawns. I would like to be a good employer; to pay well, offer benefits, and a good working schedule, but I don't want to be taken advantage of either. I'd rather hire individuals than use a company because my feeling is that I'd rather an individual or individuals benefit entirely, rather than the people working only benefiting partially from whatever the company pays them. Besides, I suspect that landscaping/design companies don't offer their employees many benefits, if any at all. My questions are: How many people should I hire and in what positions (a head gardener and crew?), what kind of compensation and benefits would be attractive, and what kind of schedule is necessary? Thank you.

5 acres is not all that much really and is unlikely to require a dedicated crew :-) My niece and her husband purchased a large beach-front home on a very fully (professionally) landscaped 7 acre property. When they first moved in, I toured the property with them to identify what they had (neither are gardeners) and determine just how much upkeep was required. We decided it made the most sense to stay with the crew that was already maintaining the property as they were familiar with it and were doing a good job.

They come in every other week for the better part of the day with a crew of 4. They prune, they weed, they mulch, they mow and edge. And replant as necessary. And yes, it IS a company and yes, the employees are paid decently and do receive full benefits. Most licensed landscape maintenance companies operate just like any other business, are insured, insure their workers and pay taxes and offer benefits. They wouldn't keep their employees otherwise.

I doubt you will find hiring a bunch of individuals to accomplish the same thing will pan out. First, you will need a crew unless you hire a single, full time, onsite gardener. And then he/she will be your employee and you will be responsible for employment taxes, insurance and benefits. And a good crew is one that has worked together for a period of time and offers a range of strengths and skills. And they generally have multiple properties that they service so in effect they are a business and will typically operate as one as well.