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Oklahoma Gardening

Saving seed of bienniel vegetables

14 years ago

This is in response to Dorothy's question in the "Oklahoma Forum Seed Swap - Thread 2" thread. I thought this one merits its own thread.

I'm not too current on this. But here's what I remember. Been meaning to do more seed saving with these. I have done seed of mustard and turnip. I know how to do cabbage and broccoli. In fact, I think I have done broccoli. It's important to note that mustard and turnips will usually cross. So you shouldn't save seed of the two, in the same year, unless you have special cages to prevent pollinating insects reaching the flowers, or at least 1/2 mile of isolation. Personally, I believe that in most cases 1/4 mile would be alright.

The same is true of cabbage and broccoli. They will cross. What I'm not sure about, is whether cabbage and turnips will cross. I don't recall.

Now, the good news: these crops's seed all lasts A LONG TIME. So one could produce seed of one type per year in something like a six year (one crop per year) rotation.

Mustard and broccoli don't take up too much space. But some of these crops, like cabbage and turnips may need six feet square per plant when they really start setting seed. Also, as a general rule of thumb, one needs a minimum of six plants for proper cross pollination and genetic viability.

One year I produced my own beet seed. I had six to eight plants, which I let go to seed. Each plant produced a quart (yes A QUART) of seed!

Broccoli and mustard can produce seed the same season they are sown. But the others are biennials and one should only save seed from plant which flower in their second season. Here in Oklahoma, I suspect one could mulch them real well, or else, store the roots in sand, in a protected outbuilding.

Presently I'm working on seed production, for 2010, of both Lutz German beet and Laurentian Rutabaga. So, if we do a seed swap next year... I might send each of you an ounce of seed of one of these!

Okay, one more thought on this: these plants are generally good honey crops for bees. So if one produces their own seed, they can also be benefiting bees and other pollinators.

George

Tahlequah, OK

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Comments (3)

Okiedawn OK Zone 7
14 years ago
George,

If I understand it and remember it correctly, broccoli (Brassica olaracea) and turnips (Brassica rapa) will not cross with each other, but turnips will cross with broccoli raab, Chinese cabbages and Chinese mustards (but not Indian mustards). I think broccoli only crosses with brussels sprouts, kale, kohlrabi, collards, cauliflower and cabbage. I hope I didn't leave out anything that crosses with broccoli, but those are the only ones I can think of.

Dawn
owiebrain
14 years ago
Thanks, George and Dawn! I don't believe I've yet saved seed from anything other than the normal, easier annuals but I've wanted to. That's part of the reason I planted my cabbage in the wellhouse garden -- it is a site that I can leave undisturbed for multi-year plants. Of course, I forgot to look in my books to see exactly what that entailed. Doh! Now I realize I may not have given the cabbage enough space for seeding. Hmm... I'll have to pull out my books and go have a look-see at the space tomorrow.

Thanks for bringing the topic up and nudging my memory!

Diane
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Blaferby, I have seen improvement in yield, etc. when saving and using seed from my own garden. But I don't know how much of that is because of selection and how much is because I learn how to better grow the given variety. I've been seriously saving seeds since 1984. Here's what I would suggest. You can go ahead and use your extra seeds, for as long as you desire. But make a practice of producing some new seed every year that you can. Save each batch separately, and label it accurately. Eventually your original seed will give out. It's always possible that you might get an unintentional cross in a batch of seed. By saving several batches, you better ensure the survival of the original variety. If you really want to go the extra mile, save some of your seed in a sealed jar, in the freezer. This essentially halts the aging process of the seed. I once grew out a squash from seen which had been 25 years in a freezer. It germinated as if it were only a year old, and... I was amazed how my more recent seed stock had morphed over the years. I had essentially narrowed the gene pool, changing the mix of characteristics in the variety. George Tahlequah, OK
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Open pollinated peppers and tomatoes should be good. Squash are trickier. You have to make sure it doesn't cross with another squash if you want it to breed true. This can be done with careful work. Tear open an unopened male flower, collect pollen on a q-tip or small brush, tear open an unopened female flower, pollinate it, and then wrap the female in a loose bag (paper or cloth) to prevent insects from further pollinating it with other pollen. Corn will work if isolated well enough, but will work better if you bag it until silks are ready to accept pollen, then pollinate and re-bag.
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So, is a good rule of them that self-pollinating species are generally safe, whereas insect/wind-pollinated species require extra attention? Generally, that's true. But growing only self-pollinating vegetables really limits you in what vegetables you can grow. It limits you to only using heirloom (open-pollinated), self-pollinating vegetables and well-stabilized older hybrids. It won't keep some newer hybrid things from reverting even if they are self-pollinating. In other words, if you grow a newer hybrid variety of tomato or squash that hasn't been around for years and is well-stabilized the seeds from that tomato or squash may revert the following year regardless of any cross-pollination that may or may not have taken place. Follow me? From Mother Earth News "The easiest way for the beginning seed grower to avoid [cross pollination problems] is to concentrate on self-pollinating vegetables - such as lettuce, okra, beans, peas, and tomatoes - which have flowers designed in ways that discourage or prohibit fertilization by other plants. (Peas and tomatoes, for example, have already pollinated themselves by the time the flowers open!) Still, to restrict your efforts to these plants is to miss out on much of the fun, challenge and satisfaction of growing your own seeds." And bagging a couple of blooms and hand pollinating them is really quite simple to do and takes only a few minutes. There is a FAQ on how to do here at GW. Had your Dad done that you wouldn't be scarred for life. ;) Help or make it more confusing? Dave
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mulberryknob
14 years ago
That's really interesting, George, thanks. Figured you would know. But now that I know, I probably won't be saving my own seed, as I don't want to sacrifice growing my any of the brassicas. I grow both broc and cab every spring and turnips and mustard every fall and since the Chinese Cabbage did so well, will probably raise it again. So I will keep buying seed of those crops. I did let some beets and spinach go to seed a couple years ago and that worked well.

Like Dawn said in another thread, I usually get so overwhelmed by the weeding, mowing, harvesting and putting up that I don't think about seed saving. So I will limit myself to the easy stuff, I guess.

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