YES!!

It would drive me crazy. There is a way people can approach someone and be respectful without being rude. I think this person has been watching your place for awhile and i would be very suspicious of him.

When we take the time to grow and then have someone destroy and steal from us, we tend to be angry. It is a natural feeling and i agree with you.

At least now he knows you have seen him and have a good description of what he looks like. I would even take my cell out next time he is on your property and take pic of him. Let him think about why you took his pic.

I am sorry for people like you all in Cali who try and plant in open places for others to enjoy and then have people come and strip the trees. We all need to remember that taking a cutting from somones tree is stealing . If you ask the person and approach in a nice manner,, they will likely give you a cutting. When you have a place that has a gate and cameras and people still come to stalk and steal.. i would be very upset.

You are right to feel as you do. So sorry that people do this...

Most people are kind.. then there are those who only think of themselves..

I hope he thinks twice now, James.

Take care,

Laura

Thanks Laura, always the voice of sanity and reason!!
I did tell the old man that there was video cams that recorded to hard drives and he just said "Oh", plus the signs.
I think that is why I never see him in a car, no way to track him.

Happy 4th

Hi James,

Well considering I treat my plumies almost like my kids, I too would be very protective. Trust your instinct... if he makes your feel uncomfortable then perhaps he's up to no good.

I hope for your sake he's just a curious bird, and not someone trying to steal from you. But I can totally understand why you feel the way you do.

That would be aggravating, given your history of being stolen from I can see your pov. However, in my experience that type of behavior, inquisitive-bordering-on-stalkery is natural and normal to Aussies (maybe most European cultures). While we native Americans think its rude and offensive. I'd wager some dollars that he thinks your rude and refusing of his overtures of friendship. I speak from YEARS of experience, where I am often the 'rude' American. Maybe try asking him a few things about his nightly walks, show some interest in him and see what develops?

James,
As I read your comment/posting I put myself in your shoes!!!! I could just scream out if anger. I personally would not trust him especially if he is not friendly and rude. It's too bad he has come around the last 4 years and still he is the same person. Just think positive and pray he doesn't do what most of us think he will do (steal). I wish you luck and patience and most if all a happy and safe 4th of July!

Chuy

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after your plumerias”

...with apologies to Joseph Heller, Catch-22

I guess a bit of benefit to us here is that very few people would know what my plants are or even know how easy it would be to take and root a cutting. Let alone know how much they are worth. My best friend is a 12 year old set in her ways and super protective lab. That guy wouldn't make it in the yard unless I said he could.

Mike

It sounds as if you need an electrified 6' fence around your Plumerias. File a police report if you think he's a poacher, but he could be a lonely old gentleman who once had a collection such as yours and lost it for some reason. Set up a security camera and if he does steal anything, prosecute him. I have found it better to make 'friends' with your enemies.

I wonder if you could ask him whether he's ever had an interest in growing 'frangipani'. Then you could say, 'would you be interested trying to grow one?' And offer him a small (not rare) one.

You must have a potted no ID plant somewhere. Maybe a nice pink or something? I wonder what he would do.

I usually have extras, so when people take a yard tour or whatever, and show interest, I offer a small one - maybe even a seedling.

Sometimes growing something removes the envy of having someone else's.

Unless he's just a bit loony-tunes, in which case there's not much you can do. LOL!

This post was edited by dave_in_nova on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 11:01

James, I can totally see where you feel like you've done your best to engage him and are now just being staked out for your rare plants. This is definitely not normal behavior.

I do wonder if the old guy has some sort of high-functioning autism, where he can't read other people's social cues and is single-minded once something takes his interest. Then there's the Aussie cultural thing on top of that.

I'm glad you caught BMW lady! Some people feel so entitled it's disgusting. Hope your patch remains unmolested now!

The sad point here is that James is such a generous and sharing individual. The problem with giving a plant is when the individual shows up a few days later with a carload of friends who also want a free plant. Or the lady who walked over to one of my rare plants and said, "you give me one of this one." I replied, "this one is still being shaped and is not one I would cut now." To which she replied, " Oh I like this, break me one, I really like this."
However, the problem is deeper. I went to a Plumeria Society meeting where people showed a slide show of a trip through Australia where they basically stole cuttings from people's yards. I questioned the ethics and you would not believe how many people thought it was ok and what does one branch matter. You cannot put plumerias in public places because people think stealing a little is ok. And then your plant is stripped clean or even removed roots and all. Beyond pathetic. Stealing is stealing and is wrong. If you do not have permission, you are stealing.....period. Many of James' plants are worth the price of a tv or computer. Is it ok to steal a tv or computer for some phoney reason. He has every right to be concerned. We all do because we spent our hard earned money to get these and raise them. Ahrrg......Bill

on the one hand nothing has disappeared when he was around. On the other hand he appears when you show up which is kind of creepy.

Some people are just different, he might just be really in awe.
Tally HO!

If the tree grow over your fence into your yard and you prune the tree... Is it stealing then? I trim all sorts of jasmine and bougainvillea and the neighbors plumeria tree that invade our yard... Is it stealing if I plant the branches instead of putting them in the green waste bin?

The brazenness and entitlement of some people (and their attitude towards stealing) is shocking. It's what has kept me from planting a plumeria in the front yard of our house. I won't even pull a bloom off a public plant to put it behind my ear - I look on the ground for one in good shape instead.

I've been seeing a ton of huge, beautiful plumes here in Maui, but have only admired from afar! I'm sure there are plenty of visitors, though, who break off a tip or two. Sheesh.

100% agree with the potential for callusness that some people have about our hobby and investment in time and effort. So glad the opposite is here in this forum.

IMO outside of his prickly demeanor he is probably harmless (compared to the X5 lady). If he was going to do something it would have been done already.

LOL about the Aussies. The best part about being around them is when something breaks they can make up a cheery drinking song about it.

Beach,

Ive seen video of him scoping out the property and he knows there are cameras recording as there use to be signs, they broke off during the Feb wind storm in So Cal. I've just had too many bad experiences, and do not like the way he disregards private property by walking off the public sidewalk and onto the private driveway with signs posted (he may have an accent but its still English he speaks and reads.). I think its the invasion of personal space/property that really gets me with him and his crusty/salty demeanor. Ive been to Australia 3x and the people I have met and observed were fun loving and sunny, granted they were out partying and had a few drinks in them..lol

Disneyhorse,
Anything that crosses over a persons private property line is free game to cut/harvest/trim, so not stealing. But in my case my Lani that got hacked up (multiple 3ft multi tipped cuttings) where they cut the tree, the tree is like 5ft or so from the sidewalk with a wrought Iron and brick fence between them and a block wall between the property line. When my Lani got jacked I had an empty unit that was being gutted and refurbished so I was @ the complex almost everyday to check up on the progress and to get supplies. On the day my Lani was cut up, when I arrived at the property the tree was in full bloom and gorgeous, that was around 10am. I went and ran errands and picked stuff up at Lowes, when I returned it was about 2 30pm, when I parked I noticed that the Lani tree looked funny, something different about it. I got out of my car and walked the sidewalk to where I could see the tree. When I got close up I noticed leaves, blooms and latex all over the black wrought Iron. I then looked at the neighbors property and saw foot prints and leaves and latex on the opposite side of where my plumie tree was located. It looked like there were 2 people one that pushed the tree towards the sidewalk and someone who leaned over the fence and stretched as far as they cold and cut so they could get at least 3ft worth of branch. So my Lani was no where near the property line. When the lani would bloom as it is a profuse bloomer people would stop and stare it it for a bit at different angles, couple of times people knocked on the property managers door and asked if cuttings or plants were available for sale from Lani even though there are signs posted that state the plants are not for sale and "Private Property no Trespassing or soliciting". This is why I cut all the inflos off for the past 3 season, want to give Lani a chance to grow and recover, too much temptation when Blooms are on it.

Well thanks for all your opinons y'all.

When I went to Florida Colors, Carol told me the night before, someone came and cut all her inflos using a pole saw. She had acres of plumeria trees, and no fences. She said people usually just take a few cuttings, and she expects that. She was upset about this raid, because they took all her inflos, she said they sell them at flea markets. Luc told my husband they come right to the house to steal, even with small children along. Barbra

Ah, he`s really creepy! There is no excuse.

Someone recently posted they went to a Plumeria society meeting and the people doing the talk were bragging about stealing cuttings while on vacation!!!
What is wrong with people?
Everyday in the news someone took their kid on a bank robbery or left them behind while running from some crime. One guy was using is 3 yo to crawl through dog doors, open the door and then he would burglarize the place.

Anything on your property is yours. Your neighbor has a responsibility to keep their trees trimmed and if they grow into your yard you have a legal right to cut them. But to lean over and Steal them?? Wow!
Tally Ho!

James

This situation would cause me to lose sleep! The creepy stalker dude(CSD) challenging you on the frangipani/plumeria cracked me up. Who does this? Let's face it someone with all their circuits firing wouldn't trespass and then challenge the owner of the property! If you wanted to call it a unicorn patch, well that's your choice because...it's yours :)

I had red flags and fireworks going off in my head when you talked about him asking about what rare stuff you have. Hard to figure out if he's just "off" or trying to figure out when you visit so that he can steal.

Maybe it's just me but I think I'd be pretty aggressive with this guy. You've been kind, you've answered questions and he's still stalking. I'd start photographing and videoing him each time you ran into him. I'd make sure he knew it too.

If you have told him that is private property how has he responded?

I hope that this will be resolved without any plumie loss. I'm sure you do indeed have some super special stuff hiding in there!

I've been ripped off twice, which I think is pretty lucky. A landscaping company pulled into my yard in broad daylight and loaded up my traveler palms, bananas and a few other rare things. They only took the rare stuff. Next, a new gardener took some of my plumies. I couldn't prove either one, didn't have cameras. My neighbor witnessed the landscaping company but didn't think it was odd??? Each one was like cutting a hole in my heart.

You could hire a private investigator to stalk him back...LOL okay just kidding!

I'm hoping the best for you and that the CSD is banished!

Nicole

Honeybunny,
So sad to hear about FC, Carole is such a sweetie and Luc was a great character and person. I totally agree with you, especially when there are children present or near by.
I am in Miami a lot, sometimes there for a month as I love it so (not during hurricane season though, or after May.) and only once made a trip to Homestead.
Homestead is VERY, VERY, agricultural and kind of rural, a bit rough. I had to go use a restroom and saw a Mc Donalds, felt it safe and familiar. Well I went in and immediately turned around and left without using the restroom. So basically I can kind of understand the stealing situation as people are looking to make some cash maybe to eat. I can see if there are people in need who take a small amount cuttings or inflos, granted its still not right but when there are people stealing to collect for their hobby and who are not under privileged then that is wrong (thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods....since it is sunday..lol).
My point is that a lot of the people who are stealing are being selfish, they are taking to have something they want not need.
This is another time (last year 2012) I had the gardeners from across the street trespass onto my other apt property and reach over the 6ft block fence to cut off a 3ft plus cutting of my Jeannie Morange and Lolo's Big Red. The tenant saw them cut it but did not want to get involved and notified me of the theft. The gardners across the street come every Tuesday morning between 9 and 9 30am, so the next week I was there waiting for them and explained that they trespassed and stole, that my tenant saw them and I had video of them trespassing and leaving with 2 large plumeria branches which I showed them. I asked them why they thought it was ok to steal and was told "they saw how beautiful the flowers looked and that it was a large plant and would grow back so that it was not stealing as they only took a branch" I notified them that I was keeping the video and if I ever caught them again on my property, especially stealing I would call the police and the INS., they apologized and quickly left and have not been back to my properties since. So basically to me those are the 2 types of mind sets of people who steal plumies.

Hey Beachplant,
There are a lot of people even in the societies that steal from other members/people they know. Paula Furtwangler had just given a PSA Garden tour of her patch and was jacked right after while she was on vacation. Doug Jones stated that he felt the people who dug under his fence to steal from him were people he knew that frequented his patch/nursery and knew Doug was not at the nursery most of the time, plus they were specific about what they stole. Marilynn of Marilynn's Gardens stopped giving tours to the Plumeria Society because she stated that there would be a lot of theft, she would notice broken plants with missing branches or even some that looked cut (not big cuttings but still.) with latex dripping right after the Plumie society tour left. So I guess familiarity does breed contempt, well theft at least. This is also the main reason I do not invite people to my patch.

Nicole,
Sorry to hear about your loss, I feel ya.
The funny thing is sometimes I am out in my patch in the front and a lot of times there are these landscaper/nursery type guys with pick up trucks driving by and ask if I sell plumeria (hate to say it and dont call me Paula Deen but they are all of the same ethnicity.) again these are the people who look like they work in the industry, but there are also regular joe's who are driving or walking by also.
A friend in Carlsbad told me that she had a rental property and that she had celadines in the front by the fence that had been there for yrs untouched. Well I think it was last year she told me that she went to her rental property and noticed that someone had cut branches off her plants. I was told she felt comfortable as no one for yrs had ever touched her plumies there, she was really upset.
Thanks again everyone for your feed back.

Cheers

Wow, that's both scary not to trust anybody, and unbelievable of how far are some people going to go for what they want, even knowing that is completely wrong!

So that would not be a good or safe hobby to have since that kind of people could be anywhere.

Not long ago, I saw a stranger walking on the property we live now at, and just cutting a beautiful rose on the alley right in front of my patio. I asked him why would he do that since it was plain stealing. He just walked away after trying to say something like he does not understand what I was saying. Later on, one of my neighbors knocked my door and she started to yell at me that if I (!!!) ever would say anything to her husband again (she doesn't have a husband but whatever) she would call the Police! I told her he was stealing bc. those were not their roses and she said they were on their property. Of course, being a tenant doesn't give you rights on everything on that property but that lady has a history of arguing with the landlord about HER property... hmmmm..... I told her simply that I will certainly call the cops next time if I see anybody else stealing. Now I am afraid for all my plants on the patio too!

This post was edited by SagoLover on Sat, Jul 6, 13 at 19:01

Gosh, I would totally freak out if someone were to be watching my plumerias with a lustful eye! Being in NC, I don't guess many people in my area even knows what a plumeria is, much less have to worry about someone coming onto my property and stealing them. All of them are in my back yard behind a 6ft privacy fence. You can't see anything in my back yard unless you come right up to the gate which is only 4ft.

Having said that, I did overwinter some of my plants at work and showed one of my customers a plant that was in bloom. She had the nerve to pop off a bloom and stick it behind her ear! I was flabbergasted but didn't say a word. She had previously lived in Hawaii and that is the only reason I showed her the plant.

I posted awhile back about someone stealing a falseralia off my porch. I could only guess that it was a teenager that mistook it for a marijuana plant. It both worried and annoyed me.

Sagolover,

I know someone in Upland that had a neighbor, they initially got along famously. Well one day when the person I know went to Hawaii for a week with her family her motion detector was set off by the AC which was blowing on one of her curtains. The Alarm was not officially hooked up to a service but the noise would scare off burglars in the house. Since there was no service with the system to notify her or to shut the system off the alarm kept blaring for days. Well the neighbor got livid, was so pissed off they went over to her house and pulled up every plumeria and dumped it in a pile. There were plumies everywhere, like a plumie graveyard, and pots and dirt. A friend was suppose to go by every couple of days to check the mail and water the plumies. Well the friend notified the owners of the house that the alarm was going off and of the damage. Sonia asked her friend to do as much as she could to repot and plant the pulled up plumies.
After that incident it was on, there was a feud like the Mc Coys and the Hatfields. The neighbors ended up even calling the City of Upland to file a report of an illegal, unlicensed plumeria nursery. The city sent out an inspector to check out the report and question the owner. After the incident the neighbor decided to move out and away. I was told there were several more reports to the city of Upland of an Illegal nursery .
So its hard when you have a feud with a neighbor. I had to call the police on one of my neighbors because of their 4th of July party and fireworks. The cut of for fireworks was 10 30pm but my neighbors were going till 1 30am, plus their music and guests were super loud and disorderly and overflowing past my drive way as they were waiting for the Valets to bring their cars.
Id just ignore the crazy, if she comes back to your door I would not answer it as you do not need a fortune teller to know its trouble knocking at your door. If the roses are over the property line and hanging on the alley side, then the rose if up for grabs as an alley is usually public property and owned by the city.
Well keep an eye on your plants, you never know.

Cheers

No, the alley is on the premises, there are alleys between the buildings in the apartment complex. All the plants belong to the landlord obviously because they bought them and because they are on their property. ;)

I hope I won't get any trouble from having plumeria seedlings now, I am way far from having a nursery, not even enough room for that.

I so hate that knd of neighbors you are talking about! But I guess there is a chance to get those species like that anywhere, if you have bad luck. Not giving a... about anybody else than themselves, disrespectful regarding others' property etc.

This post was edited by SagoLover on Sat, Jul 6, 13 at 20:11

I would be very suspicious since he asked which ones are rare and valuable. I've never heard of any major theft problems with Plumies in the Keys. Maybe because there are so may big trees, whoever wants them already has them and if they want a specific one, they ask and swap back and forth.

At our rental home, I did have a big Guillot's Sunset that eventually began to hang over the fence. It was on the west side of the house so it got a lot of heat, usually only rain water and fed sporadically. Once they get big, they can take a lot of neglect and often the blooms are far superior with some neglect.

About 3 years ago we had a really hot, dry summer and the blooms were incredible. I barely recognized it as GS. They were so dark, so vivid. I have some photos, I will try to locate them and post them here. THAT year, people did take some cuttings that were hanging over and against the fence. It began to look lopsided so I dug the entire tree up, and it was big, and moved it to the west side of my house on the ocean where it thrives today. I took a 4' branch with about 10 tips, stuck it in the ground at our rental house farther from the fence. It rooted in a couple months and is now a small tree well away from fence where people cannot walk by and take a piece.

I would give them cuttings, but don't rip them off leaving big jagged cuts. That's not right.99% of the people in the Keys will give a nice size cutting to a stranger that knocks on their door but nobody likes to have strangers come in their yards and help themselves! That.... is trespassing, stealing and extremely rude.

Powderpuff,
I love the keys...GORGEOUS.
Well I know Hetty in Naples got hit hard, as a lot of people back in the day knew she had a lot of hard to get rare plumies in her yard. Its hard to remember but I believe she posted that they cut a lot of the plumie trees down. The thieves knew what they were taking and only wanted the rare good stuff, back then Thai and Ozzie, Indian and Singaporean plumies were rare and costly.

I use to give people cuttings, but found the same people felt entitled as I guess they broke the ice with me and would come back and sometimes with friends looking for more or acting like they were at the store shopping and demanding specific plumerias.. It kind of goes to the saying "never feed a stray animal as they will never leave, or will always come back as they know they will be fed". So basically I never let strangers get that personable with me, I keep a very aloof distance and never give or sale cuttings to anyone.

We have a resale shop across the alley. It has a constant stream of traffic. Everyone there knows me, the people doing community service soon meet me as when I am off I am in the yard. I know all the vagrants, homeless, walkers, scavengers and other assorted citizens that are regulars. Most all watch out for my yard and plants. Three big noisy dogs, one of whom bites, barbed wire, high fence and locks all help. I am also fearless and run off people, homeless try to sleep in the dead end alley or hang out back there, looking to steal stuff. I am very confrontational, it is not unknown for me to stand there with a garden implement, or without, and get rid of them. Nothing has worked quite as well as an angry short red-head with a machete. Never see them again. I call the police a LOT. I didn`t have 4 younger siblings for nothing!
People still try, one lady wanted to cut down the nopalito because she wanted to cook it, what was the problem? God made it grow. Her words not mine. I told her God probably wouldn`t want her to experience where I planned to put the cactus. Then all of a sudden she didn`t speak English. I speak enough Spanish she could understand me. The thing is 8` tall and huge, you could feed an army.
You would think that members of your garden club or plumeria society would be better behaved! Gardeners as a rule are very generous people who enjoy sharing their gardens with others and sharing plants. It`s just disgusting.
It really makes me angry when I find something destroyed or hear about people doing this sort of stuff to us and others. I have no tolerance for thieves.
Tally HO!

freak4plumeria Maybe it's different in the Keys because it's so small and everyone knows everyone else. Plus there are so many huge trees down there that a lot of people don't hold them in high regard and think of them as costly or rare. It's just another tree to them. Most don't even baby them. There are some beautiful old trees near the hospital and library and nobody takes care of them or feeds them. Emerson Willis feeds them in the winter when he goes down, as he does the Kauka WIlder in front of Taco Bell, The tree Mr. Ambassador was named after him for a reason. Such a nice man! You almost never see one in a pot. They just break off branches and stick them in the ground where they want another tree. BIG cuttings almost never fail to root this way, even the supposedly hard to root SIngapore.

Where is the "Like" button? Like-like-like beachplant's posting!!
And the others too, but beachplant's one I love!

Hi James.
I know who you were referring to in that post, and she still gets into trouble with selling trees every now and then. I think it was last year when I as told that I would have to wait a while before she would be able to sell again.

It's too bad that she had issues with her neighbor like that. I never knew that one ended up moving.

Andrew

LOL! I`m a nurse, you can`t scare me.

I do have people ask If our house is a nursery. I can`t imagine the neighbors calling and reporting me having an illegal nursery, I certainly have enough stuff sitting around in pots rooting. Hauled to jail for illegal chalice vine cuttings. O, the shame!
Tally HO!

Heehee, I'm giggling because I've met Tally and have no trouble imagining her running after someone with a machete!

We take our plants serious 'round here, y'all!

But who doesn't take there plants seriously. We spend so much time loving them, feeding and nourishing them, just to have someone help themselves when we are not around! I would be tearing someone a new you know what!

Andrew

So you guys, I live 5 doors down from an alcoholic that tore 5 limbs off my trees and 3 off the next door neighbor I had planted for him....I know it was them as I watched from the top deck as they came by sauced one night and stopped and stared and said..."don't worry honey, they don't have a clue who did it". Now, I have always believed in what goes around comes around....they both now have major health issues....darn! Did I mention they had the nerve to put the stolen limbs on their deck and I see them as I kayak by and the whole thievery was done at the wrong time of year for doing any rooting for a novice. So, all the limbs have died.

Which by the way...as the female thief said to me...."do you have any idea how expensive these are?" and then the next day did the crime. So, I can totally sympathize with all the victims. I now have GARBAGE plumerias out on the street...sad, but this is life now days....roxanne

All this just makes me cry!! How low lifw can some people be?? Or maybe I am just having a really bad day... :(((((

Mima

Andrew,
Yes the neighbors moved as hell have no fury like a scored/pissed plumieholic. After the plumie tossing incident and report to the city about an illegal nursery, the neighbors decided they were going to build a patio structure. Well you better believe that she was watching and noticed there were no permits. Once the neighbor completed the patio maybe a week or 2 later, as to let them enjoy it so they would know what they were missing, she called the city and reported the illegal structure. You better believe the city came and knocked on his door. The neighbor got fined/cited and had to tear down the illegal structure. I believe that is when the neighbors had enough and put their house up for sale, supposedly it sold in a matter of weeks. The neighbor was a retired Highway Patrol officer or cop (cant remember). This was years ago and told her at the time she better watch her back, law enforcement can be worse than the criminals as they have the power.
Even after they moved I was told she kept getting reported.
I know though she stopped selling on Ebay and MPG, and only sells on her FB Page.

Well I received a 911 call from my property manager today, she told me she was out in the front shaking out her front door mat when this guy random scary looking guy opened the gate and just walked on the property aka trespassing even though there are 2 very blatant signs that states "Private Property No Trespassing Or Soliciting, Plants are not for sale!!!!" The Prop Mgr said she informed him he was trespassing and he needed to leave. I was told she was very scared and he just ignored her and kept on looking, then he asked about the plumerias asking if cuttings were available. The prop mgr yelled at him again and said she was going to call the police, then he walked away to the sidewalk and kept staring at the plants. I was told she pulled her cell phone out to dial 911 and told him he was on Cam being recorded and pointed to the camera, then he went to his car and drove off.
The prop Mgr was pissed at me stating if the plumies were not there people would not be trespassing and bothering her.
So again is it the plumerias at fault or the rude, selfish idiots that do not give a s#i%.
Here is the sign that is posted on the first panel of Wrought Iron at the beginning of the drive way:

This is whats on the closed gate, there is a kingdom hall that trespasses all the time so I had to include them lol:

I am in the process of getting a new taller gate that only opens by key or combo. Because of someone being rude I had to rush down to the South Bay and call wrought Iron people and now spend money for a new gate all because someones too cheap to use their money to just buy plumies on their own.

This post was edited by freak4plumeria on Tue, Jul 9, 13 at 20:30

So sorry, Freak, that really sucks. I don't know what else to say.