Jay, that is such an impressive review. It will be very helpful to me, and I am sure to many others.

Do you like to say where you live? I wonder how your review would compare to Tulsa. You live in a 6a zone, and Tulsa, (actually I live between Tulsa and Broken Arrow) is 7A.

I used to grow roses, and had almost 300 until about 4 years ago when I stopped spraying. I still consider my ground contaminated, and will grow food in pots. My pots are 1/2 whiskey barrels or metal containers that size. Could you tell me how growing in that size of a pot would be different than growing in the ground-- as far as taste, etc, in a tomato?

For a beginner your report, just like Dawn's and others make a huge difference to me.

Thanks,
Sammy

Sammy,
I live right on the line of 5b/6a. I actually live on the north side of the OK line in KS. 44 miles NW of Guymon, OK. I have deep sandy soil. We have hot, dry, windy summers here. And the last few years late cool spells in the spring. The freeze last week wasn't nromal but then there is no normal here. You would have way more humidity than me. Which means some of the disease issues could and should be different.

I have only grown in containers for two years so still learning. Dawn will have better advice on that than me. I will give my impressions so far. Mine did way better this year than last. A person may have to use what he has. I use plastic feed tubs in the 25-30 gallon range. I used some smaller containers the first year and found the plants did better in the larger ones. Don't set on cement or asphalt as they will collect too much heat. If black you might want to paint them white or pile mulch around them like I did this summer. Keeps the roots cooler. I placed several on the east side of a large tree this summer and that helped.

Now when discussing growing mediums and taste you can open a can of worms. I feel it does make a difference in taste. The other thing to remember that I tend to be lax on is you have to feed container plants more often. The frequency depends on what you feed with. Make sure you put drain holes in the bottom or close to the bottom of the container. Use a medium light enough to drain well. When you do this a lot of the nutrients wash out. I was a little slow feeding mine this summer. I've noticed some difference in size between container plants and those in the ground. Not as much on flavor. But a little. The other thing is I have built my ground up for 15 years. So it as tests have shown is very good. I feel when I figure out the right mixture I will be fine. And results were a lot better this year. The trouble we have here is finding the right stuff to buy.

In closing if all a person has is 5 or 10 gallon buckets use them. If you can find something bigger I would use it. I added some ofl the pitfalls I've encountered or seen others encounter. Hope this helps. And thanks for the nice comments. Jay

Jay, sorry to hear you've already had a freeze. Here in Dewey, 6a/b, 20-some miles from the KS line, we've had night temps in the upper 40's but no freeze yet. There's a high chance to thunderstorms predicted on NOAA for this area practically every day this week.

I really liked your review. I try to do that for my own purposes each year. This year I grew Marglobe, Baker Family Heirloom, Arkansas Market, Purple Calabash, Kelloggs Breakfast, Beefmaster (hybrid), Black Krim, Striped German, Chico III, Costoluto Genovese. Three of these I will not grow again, and they are Arkansas Market (a name I gave to plants from a grocery store tomato I saved) - the tomatoes were beautifully big and round but took a long, long time to ripen and then I didn't care for the flavor ; Costoluto Genovese turned out to be a smallish squat, fluted tomato that wasn't worth the effort because once you cored it there wasn't much tomato left, and Purple Calabash was shaped just like Costoluto Genovese but was a "black" tomato. If it was good I couldn't tell because none of the tomatoes got very big.

My Kellogg's Breakfast fell prey to EB but I had some delicious big orange tomatoes up to that point. I just love Kellogg's Breakfast. Chico III was really prolific early on but fell prey to EB. Striped German, like Kellogg's Breakfast, was a variety I had good luck with last year. This year EB got it, too, also the Marglobe and Black Krim. Still surviving are the Beefsteak and the Baker Family Heirloom. I've had nice tomatoes off both. For this year, Baker Family Heirloom gets the gold star. I won't be planting the Beefsteak next year because I used up all the seed I had for that. It's not worth it for me to buy another package. The vines get so long and unruly, they grow out over the 5' tomato cage and out onto the ground, making it hard for me to get around out there. I'm planning on planting Baker and Kelloggs next year for sure, and trying the bleach solution when I first see EB. I thought since Chico III is so prolific early on, I would plant lots of them with plans to yank them up after that first big yield. Then I can plant pumpkin or something in their place. I try to try something new every year but I'm going to be a lot more choosy next year because for me what matters is taste and whether or not it yields enough to justify the space that it took in my garden.

I don't have a lot of garden space, so I tend to plant my tomatoes too close together. I think this is making the EB problem worse. So next year I plan to do some inter-planting, maybe sow carrots, beets or some other root crop in between tomato plants.

Jay,

What a great tomato review! I especially loved your comment that "there is no normal here". I often feel that way about our growing conditions too.

I'll review my tomatoes, and it all is from memory, so I hope I get it all right.

I'll start by saying that half my tomatoes were in the ground when 12.49" of rain fell in one day on either April 28th or 29th (as I understand it, that is a record rainfall for one day in the state of Oklahoma), so that foot of rain caused the plants to stall and do nothing for about a month, making fruit set later than usual on all of them. Even in raised beds, as most of them were, a foot of rain in one day is just too much and our garden stayed waterlogged simply forever.

With all the recurring rainy/foggy/cloudy weather we had throughout the summer, my plants had Septoria Leaf Spot like I've never seen before, but less Early Blight than usual. It was not, by far, the best tomato year ever, but we still had all the tomatoes we needed.

Here's the review:

These performed from moderately well to very well:

Arkansas Traveler--Did surprisingly well after getting off to a slow start. Didn't have ripe tomatoes until late July, but this plant is always a late producer even in a good year and it did fight off the Septoria leaf spot that severely affected many other plants.

Black Cherry--Produced very well in June but fought Septoria from July onward. I finally yanked it out in late August. This was the first year in all my years of growing it that it had disease issues, but we did get lots of tomatoes off of it for fresh eating and drying. It is still on my "must have" list for every year.

Brandy Boy--Fought Septoria but still produced all summer long. Was one of our first to produce ripe tomatoes and one of our last. I harvested the last BB about 2 weeks ago.

Bush Early Girl--Great for early tomatoes and lots of them, but gave out early because of Septoria. It will be back solely for the earlies.

Chocolate Stripes--A stunningly beautiful red and green striped tomato with very good flavor. I grew this in a molasses feed tub and the plant still got 8' tall and produced all summer and is producing still. Definitely will be back.

Glacier--I grow this one for very early tomatoes and it produced them as expected. Small tomatoes but with great flavor and produced very early and then continued producing all summer long. Definitely will be back.

Grape--Produced well all summer and is producing still. Produced tons of grape-sized tomatoes for fresh eating and dehydraing, and even after it lost most of its foliage to Septoria Leaf Spot, it just kept blooming and forming new tomatoes, which astonished me because at one point it has less than a dozen leaves but still produced dozens and dozens of tomatoes during that time. Eventually, I cut it back very severely in August and it leafed out again and is still producing. A mainstay in our garden for bite-sized tomatoes.

Ildi--A good producer of yellow grape tomatoes that I love to eat fresh while working in the garden. I also dehydrate a lot of them. The one in the ground in the garden fought Septoria and produced less well, but the one in a 5-gallon container was amazing, especially considering the small container size. It will be back.

Indian Stripe--Produced very early and fought off Septoria in mid-summer and continued to produce into Septemeber, when I finally took it out. Fruit were smaller than usual this summer, which I blame on the weather, but they still tsted great.

Jet Star--The top performer in our garden. This one seemed unaffected by the foot of rain (it was in the highest raised bed) and had ripe fruit very early compared to all the other non-bite-sized tomatoes. Produced heavily all summer and fall and fought off Septoria...even though a couple of times I thought the disease was winning. Currently has about a dozen green ones, but as the weather turns cooler and weather, they are increasingly smaller and slower to ripen.

Livingston Gold Ball--Produced early and often and still had ripe tomatoes as of last week. This outproduced all other yellow tomatoes (I consider SunGold to be golden-orange) in our garden this year. Good flavor, good production, good disease resistance. The toms are about ping-pong ball sized. It will be back
Momotaro--Did very well in a container and produced all summer, and is producing still. Great pink tomatoes with excellent flavor. The toms are not as big when grown in a molasses feed tub as when grown in the ground, but still taste great.

Moreton--First year in our garden and will be back next year. Produced early and heavy, had great flavor and fought off disease. I really like this tomato. It will be back next year.

Mountain Princess--First year of growing it and it performed oddly. I grew it in a molasses feed tub and it set tons of tasty tomatoes very early, and they ripened early. Then, it abruptly died overnight of what I assumed was bacterial wilt, probably in late June. I kept meaning to yank the dead plant out of the pot, but never did. It just sat in the corner of the two rows of container plantings....dry and brown, completely dead. In early August, new green sprouts starting coming out of the dead brown limbs near the base of the plant. It is now about 4' tall and has about a dozen tomatoes in various stages of ripening. Definitely will be back next year.

Nebraska Wedding: Handled the excess moisture quite well and produced well until Septoria got it in July. Will be back as it is the tastiest orange tomato we grow and outperforms KB by a mile in our garden.

Orange Pixie--Great for containers or wherever you can squeeze in a small plant. Produced early and often in June and July and then Septoria got it. Will be back.

Primetime--One of the Harris hybrids and one of our biggest producers. Was loaded with tasty, round, red tomatoes all summer long. Is a must-have for next year. I did finally take out 1 of them in September, but the other one is still producing.

Ramapo--From the NJAES, this is my second or third year to grow it, and it has performed well every year. Is very disease-tolerant and fought off the Septoria that plagued my garden all summer long. Still producing and will be back next year. Great flavor.

Red Defender--Along with Scarlet Red (below), this one was new and I grew it in a 5-gallon and a 7-gallon container. It was a very heavy producer of very firm, red, flavorful tomatoes and the plants never had much of a disease issue--a small amount of Early Blight and a small amount of Septoria--but fought it off very quickly and never slowed down production. This are not bad for fresh eating because the flavor is great although the firmness of the tomatoes reminds me of grocery store tomatoes. I used this the same way I used Scarlet red-for stewed and pureed tomatoes frozen for winter, and in canned tomato sauce and salsa. Definitely will be back next year and probably will be one of my main processing tomatoes. I cannot wait to see how this one (and Scarlet Red) produce in the ground because they did amazingly well in smallish containers.

Red Robin--This is a great one for early tomatoes. It produces very early and very heavily despite its very small size--about 12-20" tall. It lasted until Septoria got it in August.

Rose Quartz--Produced a few hundred pink grape tomatoes in June and July before Septoria got it in August. Good flavor and production but I am not sure if it will be back.

Royal Hillbilly--Produced tomatoes with excellent flavor on plants with great disease resistance. Did not produce as well in this rainy summer as it does in drier summers, but will be back again.

Scarlet Red--First year for this one and I grew it in a fairly small container--a seven-gallon square pot and a 5-gallon container. It produced dozens of huge red tomatoes with great flavor. They are VERY firm tomatoes, which I am not crazy about, so instead of eating them fresh, I mostly used them for stewed tomatoes and tomatoe puree which I froze for winter soups and stews, and for canned tomato sauce for winter cooking, and mixed with Romas for salsa. One of the best-producers we've ever had. I cannot wait to see how they do when planted in the ground. They have excellent flavor.

Sophie's Choice--I grow this for early tomatoes, and it produces well and has great taste. It produced very well from June through August, but died suddenly in late August or early September. This is the type of tomato I'd likely grow for earlies only, and then not worry about how it performs once the main crop arrives. Still, it was impressive in its performance even in the heat. It will be back.

Sun Gold--Fought a valiant battle with Septoria. I've grown this one about a decade and it has never had Septoria Leaf Spot before. A couple of times I almost gave up on it and declared it dead, but it always put out new growth and made a valiant comeback, producing hundreds of tasty cherry tomatoes. Is always in our garden and will be back last year. It did finally succumb to Septoria in late August or early September.

Supersonic--Another Harris hybrid that produced early, often, and had great-flavored tomatoes. Is still producing. Will definitely be back next year. I like this one a lot.

Sweet Million--A mainstay in our garden for a decade now. Produces tons of red cherry tomatoes with great flavor. Fought its way through recurring rounds of Septoria and a tiny bit of Early Blight but is still producing and has produced plenty. Will be back next year.

Tess's Land Race Currant--Always the largest, healthiest, most vigorous grower in our garden. This one reached 8' tall (limited only by the fact that its' tomato cage was 8' tall) and then the branches grew all the way back down to the ground in a sort of "weeping willow" look. I had to stand on a ladder to harvest the uppermost fruit, and it was hard to harvest all the innermost fruit once the plants had 'wept' all the way back down to the ground. Next year I'm going to try growing it on a cattle panel shaped into an arch and see if that makes picking easier. This is always a huge producer and one plant gives us thousands of tiny currant-sized tomatoes with outstanding flavor. Never had much of an issue with Septoria or with Early Blight (which, despite the weather, wasn't much of an issue in my garden until September). I have zip-lock bags (lots of them) of these dehydrated and stored in the freezer and we'll be eating them all winter long. The only problem with this one is that they take forever to pick, simply because there's so many of them, but I grow it every year and probably always will.

Tropic--As advertised, this has great disease-resistance. It reached 8' in a tub and was very disease-resistant, but didn't produce a ripe tomato until August, which is very late compared to everything else. Did produce tons of tomatoes in September and is still producing, but the flavor is only average and I doubt it will be back because it was just so late. I'd rather give space to plants that produce earlier in the season.

True Black Brandywine--Did well in a molasses feed tub. I had it mislabeled in the tub as Momotaro, which I discovered when it began producing ripe fruit. Has earned a permanent place in our garden because of its superior flavor and production. Simply one of the best we grow.

Yellow Canary--Another dwarf tomato that's great for containers or to squeeze into a tight spot....I actually grew it, Red Robin and Orange Pixie in a row of "leftover" space in a raised bed alongside broccoli. Produced early and often, giving us lots of small yellow tomatoes in June and July before Septoria got it.

These underperformed and likely won't be back: Brandywine (great flavor, low production), Box Car Willie, Homestead 24, Neve's Azorean Red, Orange-Flesh Purple Flesh, Porterhouse, Super Snow White, Dr. Carolyn, Yellow Cherry, and Livingston's Gold Queen.

These died before they produce a ripe one, but I'll give them another chance: Mountain Fresh Plus and Mountain Glory.

These underperformed compared to previous years, but likely will be back at some point in the future, but not next year: Sioux, Super Sioux, San Marzano, San Marzano Redorta and Black Plum.

I've been working on next year's list for months and the more I work on it, the worse it gets. I want to grow them all!

Dawn

Oops I forgot Brandyboy. As always a nice 8 ounce up to 14 ounce tomato. I have a few more yet to pick before the predicted cold spell this weekend. Have picked around 17 this year. For me better flavor than Brandywine and way better producer. Always has a spot in my garden. Looking forward to trying the new Brandywine cross Dawn is sending me seeds for.

Ilene I look forward to growing Baker Family Heirloom next year. I have gradually expanded my space between plants to 4 foot and still have disease problems. It may help but it sure don't stop the problem.

Dawn thanks for the review. I'm going to try Nebraska Wedding next year after all your raving. You aren't helping me cut down any. Ha. I found your Porterhouse review interesting as I've had good results with it before. But then every year something else rises to the top due to weather conditions.

One more thing I would like to mention. One main difference between the Glick's 18 and Heinz 1439 is Glick's 18 produces all summer with a few heavy sets. Heinz 1439 sets very heavy once and then being a determinate set lightly after that. So if you want a canner that sets at once 1439 might be better. For a great all around tomato for a whole season Glick's 18 is the better choice at least here. Jay

Jay,

It almost hurts me to drop Porterhouse because I know I've grown it at least 4 times and I loved it the first two years, and wasn't crazy about it the last two years. I don't know what that means.....I guess that if I grew it again, there's a 50% chance I'd love it again?

I'm looking forward to trying Brandymaster too, and I have lots of seed to share since the packet contained 250, so maybe a lot of us will have fun trying it next spring. Brandyboy has virtually replaced Brandywine in my garden. Every year I say I won't waste space on Brandywine any more (best flavor, poorest producer in terms of fruit per plant) and about every other year I give in and buy one when I see the plants in the store in the spring.

I might have to try Glick's 18 and Heinz 1439 next year. I definitely want to grow some heavy producers to make lots for processing, so Rugers probably will return next year. Since we bought a larger freezer this year, I can freeze a lot more now because I have three freezers to fill(I cook them down into puree or stewed tomatoes first) and I've been canning more since Tim put in more shelves in the tornado shelter for storage. Now that the home-canned goods don't have to fight for space in the pantry, I can make a lot more of them....about 150 jars of pickles, jellies, jams, peppers and tomatoes (including salsa) this year so far and I've just begun to harvest my fall pickling cucumbers, so hopefully I can do another dozen jars (or two) of various pickles.

Since an El Nino year is forecast for fall/winter and we know that the El Nino pattern often carries over into at least spring and sometimes summer, I'll be making my grow list choices based on expecting oodles of wet weather here. It also means I need to focus on improving drainage in most of my beds. With our heavy clay, you never stop with the soil improvement.

I also have already made the decision to spray with alternating Daconil/Kocide next year because I think it will be essential to get a good crop in an El Nino year.

You are contributing greatly to my tomato addiction with your reviews and I need to rototill and improve and fence another 1,000 s.f. of soil just for tomatoes, and I intend to do it if it doesn't rain here every single day all fall and winter long.

There are times I wish I could grow tomatoes year-round, but they are so much work that I think it is a good thing I cannot. The cool-season gives us a change to rest and reflect, to make our lists and revise them endlessly, to improve our soil or make more growing areas, and also time to dream....and eat up all those canned, frozen and dehydrated toms.

Dawn

Thanks, guys.

Scott,

We're so terribly addicted that it is pathetic. I remember you review from mid-summer, but need to go look at it again to refresh my memory.

Although I love the heirlooms, I am growing more and more red-fruited hybrids for processing tomatoes because I like having a lot to process all at once and you can't be the productivity of some hybrids.

And, I forgot to add, I made yellow tomato sauce from a batch of yellow tomatoes and it was a total waste of time and effort. The uncooked yellow sauce was just gorgeous as it came out of the tomato strainer, and would have made a great fresh salsa or pico de gallo. Once it was cooked down thick enough to be pasta sauce, it was a ugly yellow-brown that looked like newborn baby diarrhea. (Well, it did! Might as well tell the truth.) I froze it, but I'll mix it with an equal amount of red tomato sauce or stewed tomatoes when I thaw it to use....in its present color, it is decidedly unappealing. I've made uncooked yellow salsas before (they are exceptionally gorgeous, esp. if made with colorful purple, orange or red hot peppers) but never have cooked down a pure yellow sauce, and it isn't worth the effort involved in making it. Normally I mix in yellow tomatoes with red, pink and black ones, and I'll just go back to doing that

Dawn

I just uploaded some more pictures. A few before the freeze around Sept 17th then some tonight. Also some more of the fruit before I saved seeds from them. If you look at the before and after you can get an idea of how much foliage it took. The lower leaves and stems are all ok. I picked ten pounds each night for the last two. And have several more blushing. I feel that is pretty good considering the damage. I will take one of the squash area and post soon so you can see the result there. I've only found a few fruits that had any freeze damage. Mainly leaves. So looks worse that it really was. Just hoping a bunch more blush soon. Thought they maybe of interest to some and the fruit pictures gives your some idea what each variety looks like. Jay

I am in the middle of putting in 5 more 8' by 16' beds, so I'll have room for even more tomatoes next year.

I'll be referencing this thread again in February.

Jay,

The random nature of damage to your plants amazed me. Usually, when mine freeze in the fall, it is an all-or-none proposition. It broke my heart to see all the green fruit still on the damaged plants, but maybe the greenies that were undamaged will blush and ripen.

Are you picking all the green ones you can before you leave for Denver? Maybe some of them would ripen up indoors?

I was looking at your plant photos just now and told Tim, who just walked in the door from work, that the random nature of your damage made it look like someone flew over your place in a crop duster and sprayed your plants (someone like Mr. Freeze from the old Batmat TV series from the Sixties)....hitting some and missing others. I've never seen such patchy freeze damage.

The six plants in my garden that are holdovers from the spring planting are just sitting there, covered in fruit that is about the size of ping pong balls. Nothing is coloring up much since the very cool weather arrived...and the constant fog, rain, mist, drizzle, cool temps and general lack of sunlight aren't doing the fruit any flavors. I'm just about tempted to pull out those six plants, harvest all the greenies left, and make green tomato cake or something.

The fall-planted plants have fruit that's coloring up a bit better, and new blooms this week--but I doubt those blooms will amount to much because I think we'll freeze before any fruit that forms can do anything. A couple of the cherries are still producing well, but even they are slow to blush. Just because my plants still live doesn't mean they're doing much....just sitting there. It is a stark reminder of how much we need for the weather to be "just so" to get the maters to ripen up.

Scott, Ooooh, more beds for more tomatoes! Sounds like a winning plan to me. LOL

Y'all, I am really concerned about the prospect of an El Nino year. As much as we normally need "more" rain, I am afraid we'll all get more than we need, and that can be devastating for tomatoes. I guess it is too much to expect for El Nino to rain on us from now through March or early April and then stop.

I looked at our rainfall totals for the Burneyville Mesonet station and we are at a bit over 40" so far for 2009. I cannot emphasize strongly enough how bizarre that is! Usually by now, even in a good year, we're at about 26" by October and then might have 34 or 36" in a very good year. To be at 40" with our second-rainiest month (in an average year) here just a few days old is quite bizarre.

I think our rainiest year since we've been here was 46", so we're getting close to that and may surpass it. I guess it is years like this, averaged in with our 18" or 24" rainfall years, that gives us our annual average of 36-38".

I picked another dozen tomatoes today, but don't think I am going to get many more ripe ones. They are just really ridiculously slow at this point. We (and they!) need sunlight.

Dawn

Dawn,
That puzzled me from the start. Like I said I have a few plants that didn't get a leaf frost burned. Then lost a couple of whole plants. And the damage was worse on higher ground. Go figure. No wind. Those closest to the trees looked like the rest. I read once where cold pockets form worse when no wind to stir the air. This proves it too me. Like I said most of the green ones are ok. Didn't kill the stems on most just the leaves. And there is more lower leaves on some than it looks like. Still watching the weather deciding what to do about picking the green ones. Covered up with those blushing now. Will pick the few I really want for sure. Have waited too long for them. In hindsight I would say all the foliage is what saved them. Sacrificed foliage for fruit and stems. I know the ones I burned with the clorox spray that had less foliage got hurt worse. I was going to pull them anyway. Why I experimented on them. Another reason I don't prune heavily like some. Jay

OK, Jay, you burned some of your plants with Clorox spray? If you talked about this before I guess I missed it. What was your concentration? I'm interested in this because I was planning on using it this coming spring when I first see signs of EB.

Last spring was the first spring in three years that we didn't have flooding here. Spring before last, my neighborhood was cut off from the rest of the world for about a day, as we are on a high spot. I could see the water rising out in the park though, and it was depressing. But even last spring, we had a lot of rain. Most of the gardening folks we know that had their tomatoes planted at ground level lost every plant they had. Mine suffered, even in the raised beds, but at least I came through with a few survivors. I have these two little old lady friends -- they remind me of the Baldwin Sisters on The Waltons -- remember them? But anyway, they told me that their daddy, who was quite the gardener, never started his tomatoes early, because then when the processing started, the weather would have started to cool down. They made EVERYTHING tomato -- even ketchup, bottled it in cleaned-out pop bottles and capped them with a crimp-type bottle capper and some caps they got from the local Dr. Pepper plant. I'm starting to wonder if, considering all the rain and the EB, maybe I would be better off doing as he did -- planting my tomato seed in the ground and letting nature take it's course, rather than trying to have early plants. And I am considering growing a few hybrids just for the disease resistance, so I'm glad to see reviews that include some of the hybrids.

Dawn, did you save any seed from Tess' Land Race Currant? I'd like to try that. I think you have a good idea in making a stock panel arch for it.

I know about cold pockets, but like you guys, haven't seen "hit & miss" like that. The only thing I can think is maybe it was related to the kind of cloud cover you had at the time, what with no wind.

Even when the tomatoes are not blushing when picked, they will go ahead and ripen, though some not very fast and and there'll be a loss of flavor, although they'll still be better than grocery store tomatoes. Back when I had a basement, I'd spread a newspaper on a table I had down there and line them all up. Usually we'd finish off the tomatoes by Christmas. I know some people who wrap them in newspaper and pack them gently in a box, but there's a problem with that because if one rots, it will generally spread to all the others. Having them lined up in rows on a table allows you to see when there's one in trouble and remove it before it starts to ooze.

If I don't want to go that route, I'll make green tomato relish, and my family waits impatiently for this time so they can have fried green tomatoes. I've made green tomato mincemeat, but since my family is not crazy about mincemeat it's generally a wasted effort.

Jay,

It puzzled me too and still does. Your freeze damage occurred in a manner that contradicts almost everything we've been told about freeze damage....like the fact that yours occurred on higher ground and not lower ground. Mine is always the opposite. The year the bed of black tomatoes survived freeze damage that severely injured or killed everything else, they were in the highest bed at the top of my sloping garden.

I had thought that maybe you had some wind and it kept the damage from settling in uniformly, so your damage seems even more odd in the absence of wind. I also have had times where I thought the foliage from nearby trees protected some plants, but that didn't happen in your garden either. I guess it is one more oddball thing to add to the whole oddball year.

Ilene,

I've been thinking about those of you in northeastern OK and wondering what the 2009-2010 El Nino with all its excess rainfall will do to y'all and to your plants this coming spring. It seems like y'all have enough issues with excess moisture most years, and now to have the looming specter of El Nino on top of that....

The only issue with starting seed in the ground is that your whole crop will be very late, and you might not get any ripe fruit until fall. It's that whole pollination thing where the plants need to pollinate while temps are in the right range, and it is doubtful that direct-sown plants would be large enough to bloom while temps are in the right range. Still, you never know....if you have recurring cold fronts next year like we had this year, you might very well get fruit set all summer during the recurring cold spells.

I love your description of the friends that remind you of the Baldwin Sisters! I always thought they were so funny.

I didn't save any seed from anything because I am always so overwhelmed with trying to keep up with the harvest (more about the latest harvest in a minute) at the same time I ought to be saving seeds, but I can still save some from Tess's later this week because it still has several hundred tomatoes on it. In fact, if it ever stops raining, I need to pick those tomatoes today and dehydrate a bunch of them.

First, I'll look at my seed envelope, because I'm thinking it was packed with oodles of seed, so I might not have to save any since there might be plenty from the original seed packet to share.

Here's where Tess's Land Race Currant gets interesting: are you ready for a simple lesson in tomato biology?

Tess's Land Race Currant, like all currant tomatoes, is not Lycopersicon lycopersicum like most tomatoes. Instead, it is Lycopersicon pimpinellifolium. It has extruded styles on its flowers, so it is very, very prone to cross pollinate. Because of the extruded styles, all currant tomatoes cross very easily with other currant tomatoes--that is one thing I know for sure.

What I am not sure about is how readily they cross with tomatoes that are Lycopersicon lycopersicum. Most modern hybrid tomatoes have retracted styles, so likely wouldn't cross with Tess', but some heirloom tomatoes, especially those that have potato-leaved foliage, also have extruded styles so they might cross. And, even with beefsteak types of Lycopersicon lycopersicum, any fruit formed from double blossoms (also referred to by some as megablooms) may be crossed. So, saved unbagged seed of Tess's might or might not give you Tess's---which is why I'm hoping my seed packet of Tess's has a lot of seeds in it that are more likely to be pure.

Another interesting thing about Tess's is that it mostly produces red fruit, but is not stable (perhaps because it crosses so easily?) and sometimes you get gold or pink or a sort of rosy-gold fruit. On this year's plants, I've had all red ones though.

Either way....whether from the packet or from some seed I can save and ferment this week, I'll send you some Tess's seed this winter when we start exchanging seeds.

I have tried to grow Tess's in ever enlarging (diameter-wise) cages and in ever-taller cages. Because it simply won't stop growing, and I hate to prune/top a healthy plant, I am thinking that an arched panel may be the best solution for it. I guess we'll know by this time next year if I'm right.

Isn't Jay's plants' damage the oddest thing? I guess we should be grateful, though, that it was hit and miss because at least he didn't lose them all.

When green tomato time arrives, I have a recipe for a green tomato cake that tastes like a spice cake, and for fried green tomato parmigiana. We're not mincemeat eaters either, so I don't make tomato mincemeat and I don't care for pickled tomatoes either.

Earlier, I said I don't even try to save seed because I always get so overwhelmed by the harvest, which is exactly the case here this summer. The harvest was late but abundant and I have about 150 jars of food put up in the cellar, and an equal amount in the freezers. Looking at it all, I am kind of amazed to think it all came from our garden.

Except for a steady flow of smallish numbers of tomatoes...with no more than a dozen or two large ones on any given day....and recurring rounds of peppers, the harvest has really slowed down......until yesterday.

I went out to the garden to pick ears from the earlier of the two fall sweet corns, and this is what I ended up bringing inside just before dinner time:

Hundreds of Tepin peppers to dry
Dozens each of jalapenos and habaneros
A good-sized mess of black-eyed peas (the last ones, because I then pulled the vines),
A good sized mess of Royalty purple pod beans and a similar amount of Contender bush green beans
A modest amount of okra
About a dozen tomatoes (large ones only, still need to pick bite-sized ones from the six remaining bite-sized tom plants) and still need to pick big ones today from the containers in the back yard
A few dozen ears of corn
About a dozen pickling cukes

So, today I'll be in the kitchen processing all of these one way or another, although I'm about out of ideas for hot peppers, having already canned pepper rings and pepper strips, frozen plain green jalapenos and roasted red and green chipotles, dehydrated jalapenos and habaneros down into either dried, ground power seasoning or chopped dehydrated pepper flakes, and dehydrated tepins. I've also made several batches of Jalapeno Jelly, Jalapeno Gold Jelly, and Habanero Gold Confetti Jelly. I am really getting sick of peppers. I guess I could make more salsa--I think we have plenty, but DS thinks we need much more.

I could make pepper ristras, but in this humidity, they'd likely dry on the outside and mold inside. So, I guess I'll just make more of the same stuff I've already made....and I haven't made any vinegar/pepper sauce yet, so that's a possibility.

The second fall corn should be ready to harvest in 10-14 days so I guess we'll know in a couple of weeks if it has beaten the frost and matured, or if the frost gets it first. I'm hoping for another frost-free month so I can harvest a lot more beans and cukes, but the rain/clouds aren't helping because they stall without sunlight and some heat.

In a way, it is nice to have bowls and bags of produce stacked everywhere to process again, because the harvest really has dwindled down. Harvesting the last of the purplehull pinkeye peas was bittersweet--I hate to see the harvest end, but they produced copious amounts of peas from July through October, so that's a pretty good run, and we ate them almost daily 'in season' and still have plenty put up in the freezer for winter.

I really need more cukes in order to make a batch of pickles, but the others aren't enlarging very much in the absence of sunlight. I guess I could make a half-batch of something. So far, the only pickled cukes I've done have been whole Dill pickles, bread and butter slices, and sweet pickle relish, so I am hoping to get enough cukes to make dill spears, dill relish, kosher dills and bread-and-butter stackers before the cucumber harvest ends.

I tried to help myself in terms of NOT having an overwhelming harvest to process by saving pickling cukes and bush green beans for fall, and it helped a lot. I don't think I could have handled the harvest I had in July-August if I'd had to deal with cukes and bush beans at the same time. Still, because the tomatoes produced great, if late, and the peppers were overachievers (and still are, which makes it tempting to just pull the plants now and put an end to my pepper misery) month after month, I still had weeks where every flat surface in the house had piles of produce waiting to be processed, or in some stage of being processed. I wish there were a way to spread out the harvest more evenly but you really can't.....the veggies produce when they produce and that's just how it is.

In a year like this, I really think I could produce almost an entire year's supply of veggies here....but, then, most years are not like this...most have half the rainfall we've had so far this year, so I should be grateful for the non-drought years because they are fairly rare. Still, I'm at the point where I never want to look at another pepper again....and my jalapeno plants are still heavily loaded.

The rain, by the way, continues to fall, and we've had thunder and lightning since the early morning hours, but nothing violent.

Dawn

Dawn,
My step-son used a packet of bread & butter premixed to pickle some of his jalepenos. Guess everybody thought they were tasty, because they are all gone now.
Right now I'm just trying to locate enough green tomatoes for some good chow-chow.

Okie22,

This has been the heaviest pepper harvest we have ever had and it is driving me nuts....I just cannot pick 'em and put them up fast enough. I 'only' have 3 tepin plants, 6 jalapeno plants and I had 4 habaneros, but I pulled 3 that were dying, and pruned off half the 4th.

When I made bread-and-butter jalapenos a few weeks ago, I just used the Ball Blue Book recipe for B&B pickles and substitute an equivalent amount of peppers for the cucumbers.

I bet if I went out and picked all the peppers today that are still on the plants, I'd have a 5-gallon bucketful. I'm ready for the pepper plants to die.

I have about 225 jars of peppers and tomatoes (and jams and jellies) in various forms in my tornado shelter which doubles as a root cellar. I still have about two dozen empty canning jars, but I'll undoubtedly fill them up with more peppers. At least we'll have lots of peppers for months and months to come.

I probably will pick my remaining peppers and tomatoes today because the nights are getting so cold.

One way you might find some green tomatoes for chow chow is to check the Freecycle website for your city or the Craigslist website. I sometimes see people offering green tomatoes there at this time of year because they don't want for them to be wasted.

Dawn

Too bad you aren't closer. You could of had mine. There were many nice ones. I didn't get home in time to pick them last night. In hindsight should of pulled the vines and put them inside the garage. Thought they would make it till morning with cover. I have many on the vines yet. Jay

Jay, Oh, I am so sorry you lost all those tomatoes. I hope you already had a bunch picked and stacked up on the counters.

For what it is worth, even though I am significantly further south, my green tomatoes have done nothing this week but sit there and look miserable. I think the nights are so cold and it is so cloudy that they aren't going to do much more. In this odd autumn, being a couple hundred miles further south isn't even helping much in terms of ripening.

I guess we can stick a fork in our warm-season crop year, because it is done!

Dawn

Dawn,
Yes like I mentioned on another thread. Odd when growers in Golden, CO which is almost 200 miles further north and also higher elevation only gets a freeze one day before us. I'm sure their average freeze is at least 2 weeks earlier than ours. I know they were talking about it being late for a killing freeze and here we are early. Things have been really odd. Afraid the winter maybe also. Jay

Jay,

This is the oddest early cold spell. Seems like the cold came straight here from Denver, traveling faster than the speed of sound. When we heard yesterday that it was 24 degrees and snowing in Denver, I don't think any of us dreamed that it would be that cold with freezing drizzle over your place and in NW OK as early as this weekend.

I picked all the peppers and tomatoes I could and have them piled up all over the kitchen. If it freezes here overnight, at least I'll know I salvaged what I could.

I am starting to think it may be a wild and woolly winter!

Dawn