Last year was my first time to winter sow, thanks to Wolflover & LisaH pointing me in that direction. I loved it.

Nicotiana & larkspur were two of my favorite WS flowers so I will be sowing lots of both of those.
I loved the foliage of the castor beans & Intense Purple Amaranthus so I'm definitely sowing more of those.

Some old favorites I will sow are:
agastache
salvia
snapdragon
petunia
sunflower
zinnia
hollyhock
morning glory

I will attempt Beauty Berry & Blue Mist Shrub. I ws both of those last year & neither germinated for me. I will try them both again. I think I will try two methods this year, ws & then direct sow after last frost. I just hope year old seed is still viable.

Debbie - I have some beautyberry seed, too, and am going to try it as well. I think I asked that question on the WS forum, and they said it is pretty easy. Well, yeah, but anything that someone tells me is easy is bound to be difficult for me.

I am going to try petunias also, but only because they are members of the solanaceae family and I want moth caterpillars. I plant to also plant things to attract them:

nicotiana sylvestris
datura (tons more)
tomatoes (don't have much sun; don't expect fruit; just want hornworms)

Any other long tubular flower I can find.

Susan

Susan

Susan,

Parsley can be direct sown. I planted some year before last and this year it went to seed. I harvested a lot of the seeds and there are already new little seedlings coming up right now. It is the flat leafed Italian variety.

Old fashioned petunias direct sow very easily as do zinnias. I threw one of the 10 cent packs into a barrel planter several years ago, and I still have multi-colored (pinks, purples, whites) petunias in that same location every year. Same with the zinnias. They just direct sow themselves in my vegetable garden.

I saw butterflies and moths on my zinnias and marigolds yesterday.

I have some seeds to trade if you're interested. I just don't know the latin names.

Robin

Susan, you said you weren't getting very much help over at the WS forum, is there something I can help you with? I think I pointed you to the FAQs, but I will try to answer questions if you have specific ones.

I really, really like WS :)

Lisa

Susan

I have seeds for an orange Tithonia with is 3-5". The tiger lilies you gave me are soaking up the rain from yesterday. Can't wait to see them in bloom.
Andria

Yes, I did read the FAQs, but I had questions about exposure of the containers. Do they have to be clear plastic, or can they be milk jugs which are milky (LOL!).

Also, if using a soda bottle, do you recommend leaving the top on or off, and poking additional holes around the top third of the bottle?

Do you check to make sure the soil medium is not drying out? When, in Oklahoma, do you winter sow your seeds outside?

A lot of the plants they talk about winter sowing are seeds that naturally self sow anyway, so I don't know why I would want to winter sow them?????? What is the advantage? Higher germination rate? Fewer problems with pests?

Do you start all you seeds at the same time? Like for instance, annuals that are heat lovers, do you start them later than others? I am going to try the Stargazer dahlias, but am unsure when to sow them?

When your seedlings have their first true leaves, do you pot them up in individual containers, like one of those flats with separate holes? And cover them with a plastic lid?

When do you start fertilizing them? And, when you do, do you use a diluted solution, like 1/4 of the recommended amount?

I think I have a really good location for the containers - on the East side of my house. If it does get some sun, it is minimal, and my heat unit is over there, and provides some warmth, but not too much. My brick house is painted white, so it retains some heat from the sun. Or, do they need to be placed in total share with no direct sunlight? I also have other places to put them. I am assuming it is wise to put them somewhere that is not too windy, where tops could be blown off, or they could be battered silly by rain, ice, etc. I also have a carport that I could put them under on the cement floor.

I know that not all seeds need light to germinate. For those that don't, how do you handle that?

If a seed packet says it takes 10 days to germinate, what amount of time should I expect by WS'ing?

Sorry to ask so many questions, Lisa, but I'm sure I'll think of more. The people on the WS'ing forum said to check on the Oklahoma Gardening forum, which is why I was kind of trying to find out what everyone here was doing in the way of growing things from seed.

Andria - so glad you got the lilie, and please come get more if you want. As you saw, I have tons. Did you separate the iris from the lilies? I love those iris, and I want to know if they smell like Root Beer to you this spring when they bloom, cause that's what they smell like to me.

Speaking of Tithonia, I am getting seeds also, but I have heard they can be difficult to germinate.....any comments?

Robin, would love to have some petunia seeds, and don't care what the names are because they are for my moth cats. I have some Agastache 'Golden Jubilee' if you're interested.

Susan

Do they have to be clear plastic, or can they be milk jugs which are milky (LOL!).

The consensus has been, as long as light can get through, it's fine, so a milk jug would give the seeds enough light. I don't personally use them, but a lot of people do and rave about them, so I guess they work fine! I use seed starting trays with clear lids.

Also, if using a soda bottle, do you recommend leaving the top on or off, and poking additional holes around the top third of the bottle?

I think everyone normally leave the tops off of both the soda bottles and the milk jugs. Here's a link to the Container FAQ, there's a few more specific suggestions in there. I think the removal of the lids will be air holes enough to start out with.

Do you check to make sure the soil medium is not drying out? I do check mine on a fairly regular basis, (once or twice a week? maybe in the beginning) especially if we have not been getting very much rain. Of course once the seeds start popping, I start checking on a daily basis, to see the plants!

I take off my lids very quickly, so I really have to watch the soil then. The more shallow the container, the worse it dries out.

When, in Oklahoma, do you winter sow your seeds outside? I usually start in February. I start with the early seeds and perennials. Generally poppies, larkspur, pansies, anything that blooms in early spring. I usually quit around in April, mostly because I am starting to get overwhelmed with planting out. I end up direct seeding (or more correctly :), dumping seed directly on the soil after that). That's not the most effective method, but it keeps me from feeling guilty about overtrading!

Late season annuals generally do better if they are started in April or so.

A lot of the plants they talk about winter sowing are seeds that naturally self sow anyway, so I don't know why I would want to winter sow them?????? What is the advantage? Higher germination rate? Fewer problems with pests?

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/wtrsow/2002071827019689.html

For me, the reason I got started was because I wanted poppies and no matter how much seed I bought and direct sowed I never had one. I was determined to have them :)

I had tried to start seeds inside but I live in a 900 sq foot house, with no direct sunlight. I tried lights, but I ended up with okay germination, but dead on arrival when I got them in the ground. I work (and don't have a lot of patience), so the hardening off thing just didn't work too well for me. I also ended up with lots of dirt in my kitchen. I didn't particularly care, but I'm sure any guests I had during that time weren't too thrilled with the thought of potting soil being so close to their food!

I am not a person to jump in full throttle to a new idea. By the time I ran across Trudi's idea, (this was long before there was a forum dedicated to it, it was just a theory), I had made a promise to myself to never start another seed and I had placed a rather large (for me) order with Bluestone Perennials. I figured it was cheaper to buy plants than waste money on seed that wouldn't grow! But, none-the-less, I was intrigued so I started just a very few seeds...and they worked! They grew, no hardening off needed, into the ground they went. That was all I needed, since then I have started a ton of seeds. I think this is my fourth or fifth year...I lose track :)

Do you start all you seeds at the same time? Like for instance, annuals that are heat lovers, do you start them later than others? I am going to try the Stargazer dahlias, but am unsure when to sow them? I usually start the early stuff and perennials first and work my way down to the late season ones (like zinnias). I would start the dahlias in March if it was me. I did dahlias last year, but I don't honestly remember when I started them. But, the bulk of my seeds are usually started in March.

When your seedlings have their first true leaves, do you pot them up in individual containers, like one of those flats with separate holes? And cover them with a plastic lid? I plant seedlings directly into the ground usually when they have their first leaves. I have been known to plant them with their seedling leaves only, but it is better to wait for the first leaves. I don't like to wait much later because the root systems get really huge and more damage is done getting them planted than is necessary (I tend to sow heavy).

I uncover my flat pretty quickly after germination. We heat up pretty quickly here in Oklahoma and more seeds are lost to heat and frying under lids than anything else. The seedlings are really quite hardy, you don't really need to protect them. If you have ever seen larkspur or poppies in your garden you will notice that they germinate sometimes even in the fall and live right through the winter, snow, ice, freezing and all.

When do you start fertilizing them? And, when you do, do you use a diluted solution, like 1/4 of the recommended amount? I don't fertilize, but I usually use Miracle Gro potting soil and it does have fertilizer in it. That seems to be all that is necessary.

I think I have a really good location for the containers - on the East side of my house. If it does get some sun, it is minimal, and my heat unit is over there, and provides some warmth, but not too much. My brick house is painted white, so it retains some heat from the sun. Or, do they need to be placed in total share with no direct sunlight? I also have other places to put them. I am assuming it is wise to put them somewhere that is not too windy, where tops could be blown off, or they could be battered silly by rain, ice, etc. I also have a carport that I could put them under on the cement floor.

I put mine in an area underneath a tree, sort of between the tree and the house, but not too close, just enough to protect from big winds. It is on the southwest side of the house. I have also put them in my gardening paths when I have run out of space. That's a good place because it doesn't interfere with any plants that might be trying to come up.

I would not put your trays close to a heater vent, the extra warmth could trick the seeds into starting too early.

I use a lightweight trellis type thing across all my lids. When the amount of trays exceeds the length of the trellis, I add chicken wire underneath. It works perfectly and the chicken wire works really well once the lids are off...it keeps the birds and squirrels out of the seedlings.

I know that not all seeds need light to germinate. For those that don't, how do you handle that?

I surface sow all but the largest of seeds. It seems to work fine for me.

If a seed packet says it takes 10 days to germinate, what amount of time should I expect by WS'ing? The package instructions have no correlation with WS. The best method for me has been experience and watching the forum. You will start to see the "wave of green" as things pop in the South (which includes us!), and you will see a pattern in which seeds germinate when.

My recommendation is to start small, and start with the really foolproof seeds: poppies, larkspur, batchelor buttons and others I can't think of right off the top of my head.

I tried to answer everything, but if I missed anything, post it again, I'll re-try!

Lisa

Red Eggplant (for the sphinx cats)
Parsley Wild (for the Black Swallotail cats)
Lobelia Cascade (cuz it's pretty)
Morning.Glory Cameo Elegance (light pink blush)
Poppy Black Peony
Monkey Flower Shade Loving Hybrids (includes the spotted)
Angel's Trumpet Evening Fragrance
California Poppy Sun Shades
Sunflower Orange Sun (kind of like Teddy Bear)
Climbing Snapdragon Angel's Trumpet
Scabiosa Ebony & Ivory (dark purple ones and cream ones)
Blackberry Lily Leopard Mixed (different colors)
Poppy Oriental Checkers (cream with dark centers)
Cephalaphora Aromatica
Angels Trumpet Double Blackcurrant Swirl
Aster Florette Champagne (blue/yellow center)
Cosmos Picotee
Black-Eyed Susan Prairie Sun
Zinnia Pulcino Mixed (pinks, rose, burgandies)
Cinquefoil Melton Fire
Foxglove Apricot
Clitoria ternatea
Ricinus 'New Zealand Purple'
Angelica archangelica
Arisaema triphyllum
Erigeron speciosus Blue Beauty
Ipomoea purpurea Split Personality (red/split cup)
Veronicastrum virginicum rosea
Foeniculum vulgare Smokey
Mimulus cardinalis (red Monkey Flower)
Ligularia dentata 'Othello'
Trollius x cultorum 'Orange Globe'
Ipomoea luteola Sunspots
Datura yellow flowering

So, I have my work cut out for me. Some can be direct sown, but others I need to WS in containers.

Think I can do it? I need help on knowing how to prepare my front bed (it is about 30' by 15', bermuda grass with weeds mixed in. Do you think it would be best if I applied Round-up now to kill the grass? I don't want to rototill it, because I have heard it is worse to disturb the soil with a tiller. I need to just kill whatever is there, except for my butterfly bush and hibiscus.

Susan

Thanks for your questions, Susan and your answers Lisa. I'm planning to try some of this.

Lisa, let us know when you start your seeds, ok?

Robin

I am going to winter sow all of my daturas and four o' clocks [whose seed normally drop in late fall anyway].

I have never had good luck with 4'oclocks and neither has my neighbor friend. He got plants finally, and had a difficult time with them, too. What is the deal with them? Some people can't get rid of them.

Susan

I can get four o'clocks to grow. I usually plant them in partial shade, morning sun, but they can get pretty scraggely. I ended up yanking a bunch a month or so ago.

My sister had them in Colorado, where they did wonderfully. My guess is they like a little cooler weather than we have here.

Lisa

I have 3 big four o' clocks plants that have been making a profusion of seed. I'm collecting seed now only 2x weekly as the cooler weather has slowed down the ripening. Afer a killing frost, I'm going to just clear out the dead growth, pick any remaining good seeds, and scour the ground for all the fallen seeds.

This plant will grow back year to year from its rootstock which forms tubers, I'm told. No ned to maintain the seedfall, but I do want to establish this and the other colors of four o' clocks, in other points of my yard as well. A first year Mirabilis may look a bit straggly and spindly. Maybe strategic pruning could force the plant into a tighter growth pattern. Also, crowding individual plants could add a lot to the foliage/flower mass. My 3 plants not only got huge, but were really crowded, too. The result was a beautiful, dense growth that covered at least a 4'x 8' space.

Tomato Worm... nice to see that you are a scientist (home page). No wonder you like 4 o'clocks. We have a jungle of them along the base of a wall. Concerned that they would grow too large, partner cut them back with the weed eater. They regrew as large as they would have been previously. We love them too, but they even come up between cracks in the rocks...where ever a seed drops. They have a wonderful fragrance , with the most beautiful brilliant colors. I also scattered some seed outside the fence on the road bank a few years ago. Now a section of the bank is covered with 4 o'clocks which get no care other than weed eating. We started them years ago from seed collected around our neighborhood. We also enjoy those beautiful moths. We have seen hickory horned devil caterpillars, luna moths, and many others that we have not identified. To stay with the theme of this thread, we ususally don't 'plan' to grow anything from seed. We wait and see what comes up volunteer and thin out what we don't need to prevent overcrowding.. then decide if we need anything else. We enjoy reading what other gardeners do.
susanlynn... the only way we have successfully killed off grass has been by smothering it out. We prepared our entire south terrace by mulching out grass by covering it during the winter with heavy cardboard and leaves, covered by a tarp weighted down around the edges with rocks. We had to remove the mulch promptly in the spring tho, to allow circulation around the existing shrubs. We dug in the leaves, added more soil , and planted. Now, it is primaily filled with self sowing zinnias and red salvia among rosemary and thyme on the upper side of the path. We have a royal red buddlea, rugosa roses, shasta daisies, other perennials, and shrubs on the lower side of the path along with (usually) self sown annuals. We enjoy a profusion of butterflies and moths, lizards, toads, and frogs, and blue birds usually raise 2 broods annually in the nest box. I'll see if I can post a picture of the south terrace on the gallery. Noticing the gallery has not been used for awhile. Where are the pictures? EP