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macmex

Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin (w/ photos)

Macmex
14 years ago

Hey folks,

We're harvesting Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkins now, and so far, we're impressed! Just have to cut one and learn about the flavor and texture. But the harvest is truly impressive. The first three squash we picked weighed 15 lb each, on the dot. I picked three more this morning, and they may weigh in a hair lighter.

We received this seed from Rodger Winn, a GW member and also member of The Southern Seeds Legacy with Univ. of GA. Rodger tells me that this is the traditional pumpkin, grown in or on the edges of cornfields, in that part of the Appalachians. He said that they come in all different shapes. Ours have all been different “pumpkin shapes,” long or short. Some have more noticeable ridges than others. All ripen to a dark beige.



Picture taken in August

I planted about 8 plants, in four hills, and as you can see in the picture, they really took that garden over. But we're happy. They had no pest problems and never even hinted at wilting during our hottest and driest part of the summer. Unless they have terrible quality, this one is a definite keeper. I estimate that we will harvest a minimum of 12-15 large pumpkins.

Our old standby, Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin, didn't do nearly as well this year. But that may have had something to do with having planted it in a couple of feet of fairly rotten barn scrapings and manure. WBPP got hit big time with squash bugs, when the weather turned damp.

George

Tahlequah, OK



First two pumpkins harvested



Harvest from 9/22/09

Comments (99)

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well George, when you start getting into studying the moon, let me know what you're reading and I'll give it a try, too. Might be a good thing to do during the winter months. I just truly believe, and I don't mean to be preachy here (I've been flamed by Atheists before for talking about God on a public forum but I still do it sometimes anyway), but I know it is true that God put everything on this earth and in the solar system for a purpose, to work in synch with everything else. But so many, in these modern times, have not been taught how to work within the framework. We pump chemicals into the air and into the ground and into the water and create so many of our own woes, just out of ignorance. OK, preaching is over.

    Dawn, my problem with the first fall freeze is making the decision as to whether to pick everything or not. If I don't pick, and my cover doesn't work, I've lost the opportunity to make relish out of my green tomatoes and other baby veggies. If I do pick, and the cover does work, then the new stuff that sets on doesn't have time to ripen before the next freeze. The more I think about it, I think for me it's not worth covering things, unless the freeze is expected to be very light and very short. I don't have quite the two harvest seasons, here in "almost Kansas", as those of you in the "almost Texas" part of Oklahoma enjoy.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George,

    I haven't read anything about the full moon affecting the severity of early fall freezes or late spring freezes, but my personal observations over the years are the same as yours. This would be a great topic for us to explore when it is quieter here on the forum in the winter months.

    Ilene,

    If I lived as far north as you, I might not bother covering up stuff either.

    I have a hard time making myself do it here. It is so much work, and if the wind is blowing hard, it is really hard. I argue with myself about whether or not it is 'worth it' to cover up stuff. Sometimes I think I should just go with the flow and let the plants freeze whenever the first freeze comes. If I do that, though, then I'll wish I hadn't if the freeze is followed by a month of nice weather!

    Dawn

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  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey folks,

    I've been three days, in the time available to me, trying to upload a couple more pictures on Photobucket. Most of the time, I wait and wait... and then, when it says that the upload is complete, ... nothing appears! Anyway, here are a couple more pictures. I couldn't get the third one up.

    Here's a picture of the collection of Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkins, on our porch. We gave one away and this picture is one day out of date. There are now, actually, ten.

    Here is a picture of the interior of a Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin. WBPP (as I often call it in writing) hasn't been nearly as prolific as Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin (OTCP). Yet the fruit's flesh is of higher quality. Note the darker orange and smaller seed cavity. If the OTCP had a seed cavity proportionately that small, each squash would weigh roughly twice as much as they actually do!

    I have to run!

    George

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wowee, your WBPP's are growing taller than mine, but I am getting that bright orange flesh. Mine are round and about as big as a small cantaloupe. I do have one out in the garden now that's kind of bell-shaped / teardrop shaped. I had to pick another one of the dark green ones and it is laying on the table on the back porch, showing signs of turning color. I check it every day because it was showing signs of splitting. The one I picked and processed earlier, because it was splitting, had very light flesh and the seed was not developed. Isn't it weird how many shapes and sizes these things grow into!

    George, your OTCP's look wonderful.

  • gldno1
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, I love that dark orange flesh. I may have to try that one sometime. I just counted and I have 10 large LICS left in the garden....I won't be needing pumpkin any time soon. It is sad but I was trying to think of who I could give some to but don't know anyone who would work them up when they can just buy a can at the store. I guess we are the only crazies left!

    Glenda

  • festus47
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George,

    I want to try the OTCP next year but I sure had a good harvest of WBPP this year. I just picked this cart full off of two hills of about 7 plants total. Total area was about 20 by 30 feet. I picked about 300 pounds of squash and I still have some more to get but will wait for a frost. The squash in the middle is 13 pounds.

    My Mesquakie corn is drying down but the Cherokee Squaw is still green so may be a little light if it gets caught by a frost.

    I know what you mean about photobucket. I can only upload 1 pic at a time or an error occurs. I can only get this one size picture. How do you get a larger one like you post? The only options on resizing are tiny and small.

    Jack

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes, these two squash do come in a many shapes. That's one of the unique things about them. Jack, looks like you got a very unique group there. I've seen WBPP put out fruit of that shape. But I've never seen an entire batch come out like that! On the other hand, this year, in my garden, with the exception of just a couple, all of ours came out more round. I consider it a challenge to keep all that diversity. So, next year, I'll have to grow out seed from at least one other year in order not to narrow things down and lose some shapes.

    I wish I could tell you how to change picture size in Photobucket Jack. The only thing I do know is that I do all my sizing with my photo shop program and that does affect how large a picture shows up in Photobucket. They do have limits however, if one uploads too large of a picture it is automatically re-sized down. Our camera is set to take pictures which are about 700 kb in size. But before I upload to photobucket I re-size them to about 165 kb. That's what you're seeing in this thread. The 700 kb size takes up too much of the screen and isn't necessary. Personally I like the size you're using.

    Glenda, you're right. How we have rarely found people who appreciate making pumpkin/squash from scratch, though there are some. Here in Oklahoma, I guess it's a cultural thing, but I have met a fair number of people who don't know that one can eat a squash unless it's a summer squash.

    George

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Isn't that sad, that people are too lazy or too inexperienced to be able to process a pumpkin/squash? I guess they're just not hungry enough.

    Glenda, I bet that if you advertised, you'd get contacted by people who'd want your extra pumpkin. Does your local radio station have a swap time on the air? We have here what is called "Consumer Call" and people can call in and tell the DJ on the air about what they have to sell or give away, or what they're looking for. There's also Craig's list, but we have to use the Tulsa one and so for me that's not very helpful because most of the people who look at it are in Tulsa. Is there a church or an organization that feeds people? One of our local churches is involved in that "Angel Food Network" where people sign up every month and pay a certain amount, and they get food that's supposed to be worth a lot more than they paid. We were in it for a little while but we found that most of the food was stuff we wouldn't have bought, given the choice, and we were hard-pressed to use it up. There were cuts of meat that were really tough and shrunk up a lot when they were cooked, chicken tenders that were mostly breading, meat patties that had some kind of spicy breading on it that was so hot we couldn't eat it, tomato soup that had chili powder in it and so I used it up by making chili with it, and so on. But people in some areas say they get really good stuff. I don't know if it's dependent on regions and maybe we're not in that good a region or what. But anyway, maybe they would take your pumpkins and tuck one in each box. Or if there's a group that makes a daily meal for the poor, I know they'd be happy to have them. But I know what you mean about having an over-abundance. I haven't planted zucchini for two summers now because I had so much of it in the freezer. And we'll be eating okra out of the freezer for at least another year. We're down to about two pints of pumpkin from the last Jack o'lantern pumpkins that I bought for the grandsons, and that's been several years ago.

    Jack, there's an edit function in Photobucket, just click on the "edit" link that's just above the picture that you want to change. When you get there, click on "resize". Most of my pictures are 640x480 but if I use a different camera the pictures are larger than that and they make the thread take longer to load. Just be sure that the box that says "keep proportions" is checked, and you can change one of the numbers and the other will change to correspond. Then click the "apply" button that's up there on the top. This will show you a different sized picture. There are three rectangular buttons under the picture. On my photobucket, only part of the buttons show and so what they are labeled doesn't show. When you are done editing, in order to save the changes that you have made, you have to click that button on the lower right. If you have already posted a picture on this forum, the change will take effect on it after you've done this, and refreshed the view of the thread. But personally, I liked the size of your picture, at least for that particular subject. It was a good pic. When you make pictures larger than they were meant to be, you lose resolution. I haven't had any trouble with Photobucket, but I only use it for here. When I want to upload more than one picture, I hold down my CNTL button while selecting them from the box that shows my files (after I've chosen the option to upload pictures from my computer), and that allows me to load as many as I want at one time. Hope this helps.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, So have I, and I've had people tell me it isn't worth their time to cook a winter squash when they can just buy a can of pumkin pie filling, or pumpkin puree, so I guess that even those who are "in the know" and know how to process pumpkins/winter squash stil only think of winter squash as a replacement for pumpkin in pie.

    One thing that makes it all worse is that most recipes for pumpkin (pie, bread, cake, soup, etc.) in which some of us here would use winter squash instead of orange grocery-store Halloween-type pumpkins invariably call for one or two cans of pumpkin puree. It would help if food editors would publish recipes that start with a winter squash or pumpkin instead of a can of already-processed pumpkin.

    I love seeing all the winter squash and pumpkins in the store this time of year, but I bet more than half of them are purchased by people who will use them for decorative purposes only. That's sad.

    Dawn

  • soonergrandmom
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would like to see some recipes for winter squash. Who will share?

  • soonergrandmom
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A question for the winter squash growers. It is looking like I will have to pick everything from my garden this weekend. It is obvious that the spaghetti squash is not going to be ready because it hasn't even changed color. It needed 3 more weeks to reach maturity. All of the butternut squash, though small, are the right color but the skin has not gotten hard. Will it still be good to eat and just not keep well or will it still be too immature to eat? I think it will be at about 81 days by the time I have to pull them. I got this seed from a trader so I don't know what the DTM is for this variety but most butternut appears to be about 90 days.

    I knew I was taking a chance when I planted it, but I was willing to gamble in this case. I was hoping for a November first frost. There's always next year.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carol,

    The recipes I posted on the Above Ground German Sweet Potato thread are for winter squash, and I also put a link on that thread that takes a person back to an older post from midsummer that also had some squash recipes.

    Maybe other folks will have more recipes to share.

    You can substitute winter squash for pumpkin in any pumpkin recipe you have too, like for pumpkin bread, pumpkin cookies, pumpkin muffins, etc.

    Dawn

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carol, if you have immature squash, you can use them in things like soups and stir-fry. My immature WBPP tastes a little like eggplant, so I'd think you could even make a moussaka.

    I grew spaghetti squash one year (seed from one I bought at the grocery store) and the squash bugs killed the plant before I even realized they were there. I picked the immature squashes, cut them in half and microwaved them, and the pulp was already spaghetti-ey. In fact, I think I put spaghetti sauce on some of it and ate it that way. It was good, even if it wasn't mature.

    I, too, think I'll be picking everything this weekend, as there's a hard freeze predicted for Monday night here. NOAA predicts a low of 39 on Friday night so I may go out and dig my volunteer sweet potatoes today, as sometimes, even when temps are above freezing, we still get frost in low places. It's been an interesting summer, some things did well and some did not, but I learned a lot.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carol, try one of those butternut. My guess is that, once they turn buff colored, they will be quite good to eat. Every now and then we harvest a Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin, which is not so very mature, and the taste and texture is really good.

    George

  • soonergrandmom
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Dawn, I remember seeing the recipes and I found some others on line.

    Thanks George, That is what I wanted to here. They are not as large as butternut usually is, but they changed color a long time ago. I was looking on-line last night and found a butternut that stays small, so that may be what I have. I just thought it was the cooler weather, but maybe not, because they all look the same.

    I also saw a picture of a mature spaghetti squash that was light green like mine are, but I think mine are just immature. I was expecting yellow. They were also a traded seed. I have bought seed for next year from Willhite. The green one I saw on-line is called "Vegetable Spaghetti" and is also on the page I'm linking.

    I would like to plant one hill of as many kinds of squash as I can because growing them has been fun. Do they readily cross? I (mistakenly) bought a weird one at Baker Creek. I had chosen everything I wanted and still didn't have enough to meet the "package deal" they had as an in-house promotion so I thought I would finish it out by just grabbing a few more. I bought a crazy white squash with fingers all around it. Guess it will be a great fall decoration. HeeHee. You know you have too many seeds when you will just grab anythiing. It wasn't that I couldn't find lots more things I wanted to try, but I was buying from the leftover 2009 seeds that were on sale. LOL I had all the seeds I needed before I made the 2nd trip to take my friend. It was too good a deal to turn down. I bought several pink tomato seed that I have never heard of and a few of my old favorites.

    Ilene, I am like you and I would have to try eating them, immature or not, but mature is better. LOL

    We had a thunderstorm during the early morning hours with lots of thunder and lightening and heavy rain. Evidently the mesonet station didn't get it because they are only showing .16. The county north of me is showing .56 and I was guessing that we got around half an inch. I haven't ventured outside yet, because it doesn't look inviting although the temp is 62.

    The ugly squash is called "Yugoslavian Finger Fruit" and is the last one at the bottom of the page.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ugly squash

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carol,

    All members of the Cucurbitaceae family cross-pollinate from pollen from other varieties within the same species, and crosses are very common since they are insect-pollinated and the insects really move around from plant to plant. Cross-pollinated plants can give you seed that produce all sorts of random stuff....To ensure pure seed for seed-saving, you'll have to hand-pollinate, bag blossoms, isolate plants, etc....the method you use is your choice.

    It has been raining here, on and off, since around 3 a.m. and the weather radio went off once while we were sleeping to tell us a Thunderstorm watch had been issued. We've had thunder, lightning and rain, but nothing violent. We don't need more rain though, and it is much warmer today....in the 70s when I went outside early this morning to feed the chickens instead of being in the 50s as it has been lately.

    When I grew Yugoslavian Finger Fruit, I let it stay on the vine a long time and then just harvested it and used it as ornamental in my fall pumpkin/squash/gourd decorative display. They say it is quite good as summer squash if harvested young, but it didn't harvest any of it at that stage.

    That reminds me.....if it ever stops raining, I need to harvest the dogs' gourds. They've already harvested several themselves (they play with them), but I want to harvest the rest and pile them up with your pumpkins and winter squash as a fall display. I think the dogs ended up with at least 5 different kinds of gourds growing on their fence around the dog yard this year, and they've been having fun harvesting them, chewing them up, and knocking them around the yard....they use the round ones as substitutes for tennis balls to chase. You know it is a good garden year when the dogs get a good harvest from their unirrigated gourd plants. I am starting to wonder if we're headed for a record rainfall year here. I need to search and find out what the record rainfall for Love County actually is. The rainiest years we've had since moving here were in the upper 40s--maybe 44 or 46" of rain--and I think they occurred in 2002, 2004 and 2007. I am sure we'll finish this year with twice the rain we had last year, and the plants have mostly loved it.

    Dawn

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Years ago I grew Butterbush, which is a very small bush butternut. The quality of the squash was good. But the fruit were too small for my taste and the plants, being bushes, didn't produce enough for us. We also grew Ponca Butternut, which has a restrained vining habit and somewhat larger fruit. Ponca was very good. I simply stopped growing it because I wanted to maintain Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin (WBPP). WBPP was the ONLY seed which I managed to carry with me into Mexico and keep it alive nearly 14 years to bring back with me. The rest, I had to hunt down from people who had received seed from me.

    Here's a link to a guide on hand pollination. It's not hard to do.

    George

    Here is a link that might be useful: hand pollination of squash

  • soonergrandmom
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, I learned how to pollinate squash from that thread when you first wrote it and actually put it into practice on my early squash this year when the pollinators weren't so active. I love your explanation and even taught a grandson how to do it. I am not sure if I will save seed from any next year because I am going to plant several just to try them. I will hold back part of the seed for the next season and then will plant only the ones I like and maybe save seed that year. Big plans, huh?

    I have grown all kinds of summer squash but this was my first year to grow winter squash. My DH thinks they are all too sweet for a vegetable, but would probably like them in pie or muffins, etc. Also, they take a lot of space. I have the bug now and I want to grow them all. LOL

    Dawn, I should have known that you had grown all the squash, warts and all. LOL

    I went out and harvested a butternut and it was actually harder than I thought it would be. The seed cavity filled the entire opening and hadn't pulled away from the squash at all, but the seeds look fairly mature (not saving them). The flesh was not as orange as I was expecting but I am cooking it anyway. Maybe we can eat it. LOL I think there are probably 8-10 out there that are to this stage.

    I noticed that the spaghetti squash is beginning to show ridges like the picture of the "Vegetable Spaghetti" on the Baker Creek site. It says 88 DTM on that one. I will probably miss that date by about a week. I will pull them anyway. I will keep a close watch on the forecast and maybe I can leave everything until Sunday or Monday.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carol,

    Is it Saturday night you're expecting freezing temperatures? That's going to be our coldest night of the week here, and maybe of the fall season so far.

    I've kept winter squash from freezing before by piling up mulch (leaves, hay, straw) around the fruit (didn't waste them on the leaves) and then throwing a sleeping bag or two (cute carton character prints left over from DS's childhood, so they were oh-so-attractive in the garden) on top of all of it.

    I've also had winter squash survive uncovered when other veggies froze, and they are always in the lowest area of my garden, in the worst soil so you'd think they'd freeze first because they sit in a low-lying frost pocket.
    If all the need is a week or two to ripen up and reach maturity, it would be worth trying to cover them. Even if the foliage dies, I'm thinking the squash themselves might have enough stored energy to mature.

    I did go winter squash and melon crazy for a few years here and it all was the fault of Baker Creek....because I wanted to try so many of their varieties. I've since cut back because they are space hogs. And, speaking of warty squash....Red Warty Thing (aka Victor) and Maria di Chioggia are two of my favorite warted ones. I like Black Futtsu too, although it isn't really warted.....just lumpy and bumpy and wrinkled. I saw Black Futtsu in Central Market in Fort Worth on the day we went there a couple of weeks ago and was shocked to see it in a store. When I started growing it, you could barely find seeds to plant and now you can find the squash themselves in a grocery store. That gives me hope that if there is consumer demand for good heirloom varieties, then someone will grow them and sell them.

    I do still have 4 or 5 pumpkin vines producing--they are fall pumpkins I planted for 2-year-old Maddie. They have Jack-B-Little, Baby Boo and Small Sugar Pie pumpkins on them for her. None of them are ripe now, but they are coloring up nicely and she'd enjoy playing with them even if I picked them right now. I'm hoping they'll fully ripen before we pick them, but it just depends on the weather.

    Our drizzly misty nonsense has stopped and we have a little sunshine. I hope the plant leaves are soaking it up.

    Dawn

  • soonergrandmom
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It was Monday that I was most worried about, but it looks like the forecast has changed a bit now.

    Fri 42
    Sat 41
    Sun 43
    Mon 40

    I am usually a bit later to get a freeze than others around me, but this year it has been cool for a long time, so I don't know if that will hold.

    I tried the squash tonight. It was small so we were able to eat the entire thing. My husband is always one to praise the food but didn't praise the squash. I asked him how he liked it and he said, "It's OK". If I had to give a close interruputation of that answer, I would say it meant, "Let's have this again......in about a year." Guess I will be eating the others for lunch. LOL

    I thought it was OK. It tasted almost like a very mild sweet potato. If I could have it the way I would most like to have it, it would have butter, brown sugar and a handfull of pecans. I probably could have that for lunch if I don't eat anything else.

    Al loves pumpkin pie, and he likes sweet potatoes also, but he will save them until the end of the meal and have them like desert. He couldn't believe it once when he ate with my mother and she candied the carrots. He just doesn't like sweet veggies. He doesn't like cranberry sauce and sweet vegetables, other than that, he is very easy to feed.

    I saw one of those warty pumpkins at the grocery store also. I saw a lot of really weird shapes and colors with the vendors that were set up at Baker Creek. I started to buy one just to get the seeds. Like I need seeds.....

    This is what I have for next year, not including the 6 types of summer squash:

    Acorn
    Golden Acorn
    Spaghetti
    Jack O' Lantern
    Yugoslavian Finger Fruit
    Hopi Pale Grey
    Turner Family Pumpkin
    Long Island Cheese
    Upper Ground Sweet Potato
    Golden Hubbard
    Jumbo Pink Banana
    Baby Blue Hubbard

    So you see, I can have some weird and warty ones to if I want to.

    I don't know yet which ones I will plant, but the rest of you may not have any squash bugs at all because they may all be at my house. LOL

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm thinking you could just plant them in holes dug into the yard and they'll shade out all the bermuda grass, giving you a quick way to turn your entire lawn into a new garden space.

    Feel free to plant them all, and the rest of us will be relatively squash bug free for the entire summer while your garden will be hosting squash bug and squash vine borer conventions.

    Our forecast has improved in a good way, with the overnight lows now forecast to be about 4 to 6 degrees higher! I like that forecast.

    Of course, it won't matter if flooding hits Thursday and everything drowns.

    For the last couple of months, it seems like the weather is targeting our gardens more than usual.

  • gldno1
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Be aware that the Long Island Cheese will cover an area 20x20 feet or more but it will be relatively free of borers or squash bugs.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To me, that makes it a GOOOD squash!

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love Seminole for the same reasons--it grows like mad and the SVBs have never killed it or even harmed it here in our garden.

  • festus47
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dawn

    What do your Seminole look like? I bought seed from several places and just planted them for the first time this year and as you can see I got several different shapes. I wonder if they are all Seminole. The one in the middle has this mottled appearance before changing to the buff color and the other are a dark green. I got seed from Baker Creek, Fedco, and Sand Hill. I think the one in the middle is from Baker but am not sure. I did not keep them separate as I thought they would all be the same.

    Amy Goldman said in her book there was variation in shapes. She got her seed from Rev seeds which is now Homestead seeds. That is part of The Great Pumpkin Patch in Arthur, ILL. I was there last week end and they had some Seminole that looked like the picture in her book.

  • okie22
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/tips/fall/pumpkins.html

    Info on canning or not canning pumpkin. It seems that cubed is ok, but pureed is not.
    Anyway, a very handsome bunch of pumpkins & squash. I made sweet potato pie one year & only 2 of us knew the difference. Pretty sure that commercial canned pumpkin is actually squash, and I think that I was told it was because of the brighter color & that it was easier to process than actual pumpkin.
    Are the OTCP resistant to squash borer and are they a good keeper? Borer's wreak havoc with my husband's patty-pan squash, but so far he's not too enthused about growing winter squash, although he does like butternut and acorn squash with sausage stuffing is a favorite around here.
    Another question or thought on preserving. Can you after drying the flesh, then grind it or mill it into flour or meal? It seems to me that if it could be sufficiently dried and then ground that it would have a much longer shelf life and could be incorporated into a variety of dishes.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's a really great idea/question about drying and making flour! Uh... I don't know! But we may try it. I picked an immature OTCP, yesterday, to try as a summer squash. Will let you all know how it turns out. For me, I generally don't care for c. moschata varieties as summer squash. They have a different texture than regular summer squash.

    Okie, I believe that our English terminology is a little confused when we speak of pumpkin and squash. There should only be one word. Pumpkins are squash and it's not clear what makes a pumpkin a pumpkin "instead of" being a squash. But some squash do have deeper, higher quality flesh, and rarely does one find a orange Jack O'lantern type pumpkin with that superior quality. Some c. moschatas (butternut, Long Island Cheese, OTCP, Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin, etc.) have really good quality flesh. But, in my opinion, not all c. moschatas do. There is a much high percentage of superior quality c. maximas. (The only c. maxima I've tried, which wasn't superior, was Big Max). But sworn them off a couple of times since they are EXTREMELY vulnerable to squash vine borers.

    I've heard great things about Seminole. If I didn't have the varieties that I do, and if I was looking for a mainstay, I'd probably look at that one.

    The Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin is resistant to borers. In my mind, it has all the qualities that make for a mainstay variety. It's prolific, insect resistant, and of good quality. I like the quality of Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin just a hair better. But the difference is negligible. So far, since moving to Oklahoma, I have not had as good success with WBPP. We'll see with time. But I have not seen it thrive like it did up North.

    Here's an interesting one. I drove to Muskogee, this week, to visit one of our church's shut ins. In their apartment complex they had fall decorations set up. On some hay bales I found some buff colored squash that looked an awful lot like OTCP! The only difference is that they were a tiny bit more elongated. Anyone have any idea what that one is called?

    George

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Festus,

    In the years that I've grown Seminole (I didn't grow it this year due to weather and garden space issues), I have gotten perfect buff-colored mostly bell-shaped (very slightly bell-shaped, not an obvious big bell) pumpkins every time on very rampant vines that resist all pests and diseases. Every now and then one won't have the bell shape, just an oblate shape more like a cheese pumpkin. Mine mostly have looked very similar to the one Amy has at the bottom of the photo on page 92 of her book. I've linked a page from the SESE website, because they're my seed source and mine do look like the ones in their photo on that page.

    Okie22, We've discussed here before that cubes are still approved by the NCHFP, but by the time you process it 55 or 90 minute or whatever they say now, it seems to many of us that its quality has been pressure-canned right out of it. I'd just as soon freeze it (and do) as can it, but I have freezer space available and not everyone has that option if their freezer is full. All commercial canned pumpkin is winter squash because all pumpkins are winter squash as George stated. I don't think any of the canned pumpkin you buy, whether as pumpkin puree or pumpkin pie filling, or in pumpkin pies, cakes or muffins, actually comes from the traditional orange Halloween jack-o-lantern type pumpkin. Almost all traditional jack-o-lantern type pumpkins are low eating quality. I grow those only for decoration and grow other winter squash for eating.

    To dry pumpkin enough to grind it into a meal or flour, you'd have to dry it for a very long time. I dry hot peppers until they are crisp enough to turn into powder an it takes forever. I cannot imagine trying to get pumpkin that dry.

    Years ago, when I read the book "Buffalo Bird Woman's Garden", I learned that the native Americans dried their winter squashes to preserve them for winter. Pioneers also dried their winter squashes by slicing them into round rings, removing the seeds and strings, and hanging the rings to air-dry out of direct sunlight.

    I generally don't dry pumpkins because the dehydrator is busy with tomatoes, but I freeze a lot of it and keep others in the tornado shelter long-term and use as needed.

    George, I don't know why some are called pumpkins (well, I do understand the traditional use in this country of 'pumpkin' for large, orange jack-o-lantern type winter squash that aren't worth eating) and others are called winter squash because we know they're all squash. I guess we can blame it on the folks who write children's Halloween books about 'orange pumpkins' and on the marketing arm of the commercial food industry. I think we got our orange 'pumpkins' ingrained in the public mind by the same marketing geniuses who convinced Americans decades back that all tomatoes should be red and round, and they were wrong about that too.

    I just think of them all as winter squash. But, if I refer to them as 'winter squash' to anyone else in my family, they think I mean only acorn or butternut squash and not those other "big thingies" you see at the store. LOL So, if I am talking to a non-gardener, I might refer to pumpkins as "pumpkins", and refer to winter squash as "winter squash". But, if I am talking to another serious gardener, I can say "winter squash" and they know I mean ALL winter squash, including pumpkins. Is that as clear as mud?

    The buff-colored winter squash you saw that was only a bit more elongated than your OTCP could be Shakertown Field Pumpkin or Georgia Candy Roaster (it can be variable in shape though) or something similar to them. I'm sure there's other possiblities too, but those are the ones that immediately came to mind.

    Since it feels so much like fall, today I made apple cider-cinnamon jelly. I have a half a jug of cider left, so I think I'm going to get off the computer and make pumpkin chocolate chip cookies for us 'girls' (meaning our dear daughter-in-law and darling granddaugher and me) to eat tonight after dinner with hot spiced cider. The guys are working today/tonight so we'll have a rare girl's night at home with no men.

    Dawn

    Here is a link that might be useful: Seminole Pumpkin at SESE

  • gldno1
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like the sound of the Seminole Pumpkin squash. The smaller size is good and storing at room temperature would be great too. I may give that one a try next year. The L.I. Cheese make way too much at one time. I see no negatives from the SESE description of it. Is there something about it I should know?

    Dawn, last year I made the best apple jelly using some cider and the juice from just the cores and peelings from the applies I sliced and froze. How do you do the apple cider-cinnamon jelly? Is it all cider?

    You girls have fun tonight.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glenda,

    It is the simplest recipe in the world....just fresh apple cider, sugar, a cinnamon stick and liquid pectin. The recipe I use is from Ellie Topps' book "Small Batch Preserving". I made two separate batches today, totaling eight half-pints.

    We can't grow apples here in southern OK because of the millions of cedar trees and Cedar-Apple Rust Disease, so I only make it in the fall when the fresh apple cider arrives in the stores in late September or early October.

    Here's the recipe:

    Apple Cider Cinnamon Jelly

    2 1/2 cups fresh apple cider
    1 cinnamon stick, 4" long, broken into 4 pieces
    3 1/2 cups granulated sugar
    1 pouch liquid fruit pectin

    1. Combine cider and cinnamon stick pieces in a large non-reactive saucepan. Cover and bring to a boil over high heat; then reduce heat and boil gently for 5 minutes. Strain the cider through several layers of cheesecloth or a jelly bag, and remove the cinnamon pieces. Set them aside to add to jars later. Rinse saucepan to remove any residue.

    2. Measure 2 cups of cider and return it to the saucepan. Add the sugar. Bring to a full boil over high heat, stirring constantly. Stir in liquid pectin, return to a full boil and then boil hard for 1 minute, stirring constantly. Remove from heat.

    3. Place one piece of cinnamon stick in each jar and ladle hot jelly into the jars. Process for 10 minutes in a BWB.

    Makes 4 half-pints.

    When you eat it, it tastes just like a mug of spiced cider. I like it on apple muffins. I also like Linda Lou's Apple Pie Jam from the Harvest Forum on apple muffins.

    DDIL is making some baked goodies for her family's big Family Reunion this week, and the house smells heavenly.

    Dawn

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey folks,

    We've had two "light frosts." I use quotation marks around that term, since they have not killed very much. We still have three good sized Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkins still out there. Two look likely to mature!

    I was being real careful and weighing each squash in order to accurately record our harvest of this one. However, between Jerreth and myself, we managed to get things mixed up. We stashed about six of them, before they were weighed, with those which had been. We've also used or given away three of them. Anyway, I am POSITIVE that we've passed the 300 lb mark in our harvest. This is fantastic!

    Here's a picture of the main part of the harvest. We've harvested 26 fruit. One weighed in at 8 lbs. Another at 9 1/2 lb. None of the rest have weighed in at less than 13 lb. Most are at about 15 lb. But we've also harvested a couple at the 30 lb mark.

    George

    PS. In the picture there are also a couple of Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin.

  • gldno1
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a question for you. What do you do with all those squash?

    I think one of mine in storage may be going bad. It has little beads of juice popping up on the skin.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We eat them, as a side dish (cooked squash), in pies, in and in a drink called atole.

    We've been on a diet and discovered that we can eat all the winter squash we want (not doctored, of course). So it does work as a delicious filler when one has the "munchies."

    The juice popping up, is it real sticky or is it watery?

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George, here you go again, using words I've never heard of. Atole? Getting to know you has been such an education for me. So how do you make it?

    Those are great looking pumpkins. With them lined up like that, looks like they're coming over for a party. All they need are some little hats and scarves. LOL

    I've had a few pumpkins that had juice popping up around the stem and that progressed to a rotten spot. Generally it was on those that weren't fully mature, so I went ahead and processed them. I still have the ones that were dark green and club-shaped and they have turned almost completely buff now. I probably should go ahead and process those too but there's not much room in the freezer right now. I'm grateful to have these, they will make wonderful pie. Oh and I found this recipe on Recipezaar. It got a lot of rave reviews. I modified it a bit to use pumpkin puree instead of pumpkin pie filling, since that's what I'll be using:

    Pumpkin Pie Dip
    Reviewers said this is really delicious. Great for Fall parties. One reviewer suggested doubling the cream cheese as a holiday bagel spread. Makes 3 cups (one of the reviewers said she worked at a head start where they were always trying to find ways to get more veggies into the kids. She said they served this with graham crackers and the kids went nuts for it, lots of parents asked for the recipe so the kids must've gone home and told them about it. Now THAT's when you know something was really good!)

    1 (8 ounce) package cream cheese, softened
    2 cups powdered sugar
    1 (15 ounce) can pumpkin puree (wouldn't that be about 2 cups?)
    2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
    1 teaspoon ground ginger

    1Beat cream cheese and sugar at medium speed with an electric mixer until smooth.
    2Add pumpkin, cinnamon, and ginger, beating well.
    3Cover and chill 8 hours.
    4Serve with gingersnaps, graham crackers, vanilla wafers or apple slices.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ilene,

    George is always teaching us something new, isn't he? From having neighbors in Fort Worth who originally were from Mexico, I think atole is a grain-based drink that is usually a combination of masa and water and spices. There are different kinds of atole, and one of them has chocolate in it.....which, of course, would be the one I'd make. I've seen some that are pretty thin, and others that are almost as thick as pudding.

    Dawn

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's correct Dawn. Atole can be made of many different things. The most common is either of corn or corn starch. But squash atole is also made by some. Here's my recipe. We enjoyed it in Mexico. But had to reconstruct the recipe when we got back to the USA. I took the liberty to add pumpkin pie spice and make it taste like pumpkin pie.

    Recipe for Atole de Calabaza
    -Cut chunks of winter squash into your pot so that they fit. I left the shell on them and scooped the flesh off after cooking.
    -Add sufficient water to boil/steam the squash.
    -Add molasses and some cinnamon to the water and squash in the pot, so that the solution will be sweet to taste when finished.
    -Cover on low flame and cook till tender.
    -Remove shell from chunks and return the flesh to the pot.
    -Transfer squash and molasses solution to a blender, add a few "glugs" of milk to each blender full and blend to get rid of strings and chunks. How much you blend is up to you. I've had squash atole that had chunks, strings and entire seeds in it, and it was delicious. Our family prefers to blend it to a uniform smoothness. At this time you taste it and add additional sweetener if necessary. The amount I make takes several blender-fulls to finish, as I make about 2 quarts.
    -Enjoy! Something that is really good is to dip pieces of French bread or hard roll into the atole as you eat/drink it.
    __________________________
    Americanized Pumpkin Atole
    -To a blender add:
    1 egg
    a few glugs of molasses
    some sugar (brown or white)
    2 cups of cooked squash
    1/4 teaspoon nutmeg
    1/8 teaspoon ginger
    1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
    optional -- 2 or 3 tablespoons of peanut butter
    -Milk (fill the remaining space in the blender with milk, leaving just a little space at the top.
    -Blend this all up and taste to see if it needs more sweetening.
    -Pour the mix into a pot and heat until just boiling.
    -Serve

    If one has sweet potatoes they can be substituted for squash/pumpkin, and the result is wonderful.

    George

  • ilene_in_neok
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think I would like that. Sorta like a pumpkin pie pudding. Does the egg in the mixture curdle when you heat it, or does whirring it around in the blender prevent that?

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's not hot enough in the blender to curdle the egg. I heat up the whole mix after blending it. Once it's been blended you'd never know that it's in there.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Still processing (and eating these in February). They're good!

  • mjandkids
    14 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George you're making it hard to wait for planting time :-) I've got a nifty little packet of these (thank you btw) from the seed swap and looking at all these pictures again is making me a mite anxious LOL.

    Glad to hear you're still making great use of them. Thanks for the update.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, here it is 2011! I thought I'd mention that this year was the absolute most challenging (worst) garden year I've ever seen. I had to re-plant my squash, probably, four times, due to squash bugs and drought. But thanks to Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin, we have enough winter squash to last the winter. It matured one 20 lb fruit to a nice buff color. But I brought in three or four more, which were still dark green. They have been turning in storage, and, I have to say their flavor has been good. I remember that Roger Winn, the one who sent me this seed, wrote that they picked these green. Now I know why.

    George

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thought I'd bump this one up, as sometimes these threads drop out of existence. I hope to do a nice planting of Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin in 2013. My squash all flopped this year. One Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin volunteered in a compost pile, in August. But it only had small green fruit when the frost killed it. Warsaw Buff Pie Pumpkin was planted in a nice patch with lots of tender loving care. But the squash bugs actually ate the fruit before I could get mature seed. These last couple of years have been like living under the plague!

    I may also start a couple WBPP plants extra early, in order to get a crop, I REALLY need to renew my seed.

    George

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    George,

    I'm glad you bumped this one back up. A lot of our newer forum members may not be familiar with Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin. I actually planted it this year, and then something ate the plants when they only had 2 or 3 leaves. My Seminole pumpkins survived and took over the space allotted to OTCP so we still had pumpkins.

    I'm hoping that 2013 will be kinder to us gardeners than 2011 and 2012 were.

    Dawn

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Good read. I've saved those recipes. I can vouch for the growth and SVB protection for Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin (OTCP). I'll try to post some photos after I harvest my third pumpkin in a couple days. Really cool to see and watch the generations !

    bon

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm so sorry. I've been reading up on how to cure these pumpkins. Everything I read is different: sun, no sun, indirect sun, direct sun, 85% moisture (which is impossible), 85 degrees or higher (which is difficult depending on light exposure).

    I'm trying to learn to

    1) Save seed
    2) Cook with pumpkin (Got that covered) and
    3) cure and store the others for storage.

    What in the world should I do with these to save seed and store for winter consumption?

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dawn recently posted on storage of squash and pumpkins. I don't recall exactly where. First of all, it doesn't hurt to leave them on the vine after they test mature (fingernail test). If saving seed, then try to wait a month after the fruit tests ripe, before you cut it and take the seed. This additional time is used by the seed to absorb more nutrients, thus giving the seed a longer viability in storage. This additional month can be on or off the vine.

    I simply pick my squash and put them somewhere where it doesn't get too hot and where it won't freeze. Try to keep them dry. That's about it. In past years I've stashed them behind the couch, under the bed and used them for door stops!

    Bon, you will most likely get A LOT more squash before frost. I'm always amazed at how many are hiding in the foliage. Last year, even though I combed the garden, looking for stragglers, I still didn't see a 30 lb Old Timey Cornfield Pumpkin, only finding it after it froze and spoiled.

    George

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When left on the vine, will the squash bugs harm the fruit? I keep finding them all over but kill them when I do. Half the vines are dead now because of the bugs. I've covered the live vines with dirt for integrity.

  • Macmex
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bon,
    squash bugs can damage immature fruit. Once the skin is hard I doubt they will hurt one of these.

    George

  • kfrinkle
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would love to get some OTCP seeds from this years harvest if anyone would care to share....

  • chickencoupe
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    New leaves! Unbelievable! All the center vine leaves were yellow and brown. Today I see tons of new leaves all along those vines. Outstanding! I LOVE THIS PLANT. lol AND IT'S RAINING AGAIN. My gollies I'm gonna have a ton of pumpkins.

    kfrinkle if George doesn't get to you, I'll send you some of mine. I probably should get some more from him to steady my own variety.

    bon

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