Dawn: "It seemed to take some of the joy out of 'giving' once it seemed like the giving had become mandatory."

Hum...put that on a national scale, and you will share my political convictions.

Well, my pet peeve probably isn't justified because it was a result of our choice. But for several years my DH and I liked to go camping during the brief respite from the garden that came when all the corn, potatoes, peas, and broccoli got harvested and processed. This was usually the middle of July and we were usually only gone for a week. The problem? Okra. A fifty ft row of okra just coming into production good. And every gardener knows that okra has to be picked often or it shuts off production.

Well for a couple years, our young adult son--early twenties--was at home, and although he doesn't like to garden did agree to pick the okra "at least once." Of course he forgot. Grown and married daughter agreed one year and "forgot, mom, sorry." One year a good friend who loved to have me pick okra and bring it to her (I'm infringing on your peeve just a bit Dawn) assured me that she would drive to my house, true a 20 mile round trip, at least once to pick okra and take it home with her. But, again, "Sorry, I forgot all about it."

And like I said, anyone who takes a vacation during okra season is taking their chances, still when people say they are going to do something you think they are going to do it and it's a bummer to get home, go to the garden and find out they didn't.

This year though, we did it right. DH and I flew to Seattle for 10 days in late July and my brother and wife, now retired, stayed in our home for most of that time, not only to look after our place, but also to be close to my parents should they need help. And they picked the okra. Also picked a couple winter squash too soon, but there were more. THEY PICkED THE OKRA and when we got home we had just right sized waiting for us. Hope they're available next year.

Dawn and Carol
Well, obligatory 'sharing' with takers, used to be one of my pet peeves, but I began to take Dawn's approach, and then I too wised up.

I will always have some extra to give to truly needy people,or old folks who are unable to garden or are trying to live on Social Security. Nowadays, that's tough in many cases.

One lady I used to give veggies to made the mistake of saying, "A hoe doesn't fit in my hand." Wrong statement!
From her appearance, however, a fork did fit in her mouth. So that was that.

Another woman I used to share with told me I should go down to the trailer park and give away my excess veggies. Well, down at the 'trailer park' were a bunch of alcoholics and druggies. She didn't seem to comprehend that maybe I didn't want to supply food for them so they'd have more money for drugs, beer or liquor.

Maybe some people don't realize that these veggies aren't just free. I mean it costs money to garden, for seeds, bulbs, amendments, natural fertilizers, and pest control, not to mention water if you have to buy it. And then, what about all the really hard work of putting it all together in that wonderful thing called a garden? Or, if some of the users do realize, do they give a rip? When I recognize that 'sense of entitlement' attitude, that's when I dig my heels in.

I must say it feels really good to be free of that, and-not allowing anyone to guilt trip me.

Barbara

Carol, What a great point! I share your feelings.

Dorothy, I'd come over and pick your okra if you lived within an hour's drive or so. (Sorry.) And I didn't consider you to be infringing on my pet peeve either.

I like the housesitting idea and it seemed to work out well. I hope they are available next year (and every year thereafter) too.

When you have a serious veggie garden producing for a long growing season, it is very hard to find the right time to go away. When you have a lot of animals that require attention at least twice a day, it is almost impossible.

Dawn

Guess I better keep this thread on gardening.

Pet Peeve #1 is generic seed packs. I like pictures. In addition I want to know how long until seed germinates, how deep to plant, how far apart, days to maturity, average size of product if applicable, and how many seeds are in the pack. I know packaging costs money but since most of the companies have raised their prices and lowered the number of seeds you get, they at least can provide information. On most items the days of spreading seed in a row are over. I find I am doing a lot more "protected" germinated and transplanting these days.

Pet peeve #2 is powdery mildrew

Pet peeve #3 are those darn squash bugs. I was lucky this year however, as I killed about 4 and destroyed their eggs, and I didn't see anymore.

Carol - you lucky son-of-a-gun on the squash bugs!!! We've sprayed, picked and destroyed and we STILL have them...and they're on the darned okra! Weird little yellow things...but they're squash bugs just the same. I think they just mutated because we took their primary source away once it was getting hopeless.

My #1 pet peeve (aside from 2-legged theives) is nematodes!!! I can pretty much attack everything else one way or another....but those nematodes....AAARRRGGGHHH! We made the mistake in 2008 of buying City Mulch for the garden. This was after that horrible ice storm in late 2007. We've had them since then and I really don't know what else to do to kill and rid ourselves of them. Any advice? Wait...don't answer until I use the "search" engine.....

Paula

I don't know about nematodes although I read a thread where dawn had advised a woman from Florida that posted and ask about them. I did see an interesting thread the other day where a man had put nursery pots in the ground, then had planted into a smaller pot that fit down into a larger pot. It was pretty interesting so I will see if I can find it again. He also had an interesting idea for tomato cages.

Barbara,

You and I were posting at about the same time, so I missed yours.

Oh, you had me rolling on the floor laughing with the remark about a fork fitting into her mouth.

Yes, I feel better too since I stopped giving away so much produce to people who took it for granted and acted like I owed it to them.

Carol, I'm not crazy about generic seed packs either.

As for squash bugs, I'll trade you my leaf-footed bugs and stink bugs for your squash bugs. Squash bugs are a lot easier to kill

Paula, So, you must have sandy soil or sandy loam because that is where nematodes thrive. I've never heard of them being in mulch, unless sand was mixed in with it. Normally, one of the recommended SOLUTIONS for nematodes is to add pine bark fines to the soil to increase its organic matter component.

What you really need to do (and I am not making this up) is to bring me all your sandy soil and haul home all my clay. Nematodes can't live in clay. What? You don't want to do that. OK, fine, just be that way. In that case, you can grow Elbon cereal rye (not the same thing as rye grass for overseeding a lawn) in the soil. You also can treat the soil with chitosan and add beneficial nematodes (they eat the pest nematodes). You can add sugar or dry molasses (from the feed store) to your soil to increase biological activity which discourages nematodes. If you can't find previous info with the search feature, let me know.

Carol, I think for the nursery pot-inside-a-pot to work, you have to have a layer of pure bark or rocks between the two pots because the nematodes only travel through soil. Does that sound right?

Dawn

Ladies
This is interesting how a peeve thread gets turned into great garden info. Just goes to show you can't keep a bunch of die hard gardeners down, because like the South, they will rise again. Dig more holes, plant more stuff, fight more nematodes, thieving neighbors, relatives, coyotes, whatever) and never never never give up.

Hey! Can we do a "5 Things I Love About My Garden" thread, next?

Barbara

I feel bad posting on the Oklahoma Forum, but the Ozark one just doesn't seem to be very active. I know we have some serious gardeners but they don't post often. You all are people after my own heart here in so many ways!

I really don't have a pet peeve anymore. Used to be my Sis bringing a friend out to see what was available in the garden for them to carry off! And this same sis would never give me feedback when I would take her meat or garden stuff, but I would hear back via Mom that the meat was tough or the peppers didn't have taste or whatever. I don't want praise but sure looks like a phone call of appreciation would have been nice. We are all suckers for compliments and praise....little did she know I would have busted my hiney taking things to her if I thought she appreciated them!

My number one pet garden peeve is tomato disease of whatever kind I have! I may have to take up spraying again.

Glenda

I'll join in on the fun! Even tho I'm in the Ozark region too... ya'll haven't ever made me feel unwelcome! :)
Since I'm still in beginner status, I'm just learning what to be peeved of with my garden.

Powdery mildew... Yes. That's a big one!

Secondly, is that I got a bad case of LRH syndrome this year. (Little Red Hen Syndrome... LOL!) Getting help from my husband and oldest son is like pulling teeth! Honestly, it's easier to just do it myself, so I do in most cases. Well, I found the seeds (thanks to Dawn), planted them, grew them, harvested them... shouldn't I get to EAT THEM all by MYSELF?? LOL! I have eaten more than my share of cherry tomatoes this year... instead of bringing them inside to the guys. Nyah. :)

Beth

My pet peeve is people who talk like they really know what they're talking about when in reality they are clueless. I have an old and dear friend who's been doing this to me all season. He's the one who told me to pick cucumbers when the spines on them go away (they never do). When I got to really thinking about it, while I know he's lived in houses with beautiful flower gardens and successful veggie gardens HE WAS NEVER THE GARDENER! It was either his mother or his wife who did the gardening, but that doesn't stop him from offering me advice and information as if he actually knows something about gardening.

I just don't have room in my head for erroneous information (the news media is bad about this as well). Reminds me of an old "Peanuts" cartoon where Lucy and Linus are outside, both with a pair of sunglasses, and Lucy has Linus put on and take off the sunglasses telling him, when they're on, that's an eclipse. Charlie Brown and company are looking on and shaking their heads saying poor Linus will have to go to school twice as long as everyone else because it will take 12 years to unlearn everything Lucy is teaching him!

I don't mind people giving opinions or stating things they believe to be true so long as they qualify it as such. It's just when they phrase it as though they are an authority and certain of what they say and it's wrong that it irks me.

Dawn is a perfect example of someone who makes sure to let you know whether she's giving you information she's read or heard about or whether she has personal experience and first-hand knowledge. That makes it easy to trust what she says when she speaks authoritatively. If she's tried something and it works, she'll tell you that; if she's read or heard about something but never tried it herself, she'll tell you that. I really appreciate people who don't let their egos get in the way by talking like they know something they really don't.

Glenda, you shouldn't feel the least bit bad posting here. We all love having you join us!

Debra

Debra, thank you. This kind of off the topic, but I had an old farmer tell me once to only take advice from a farmer whose farm you admired! Great advice.

My sweet DH is like the 'expert' gardener friend of yours. Now that we are retired he often sits in my easy chair in the kitchen while I am cooking and offers advice! Now this is a man who has never cooked anything but eggs in his life! I reminded him of this fact just day before yesterday............

And for BEth: My DH has always worked very long hours and traveled so I had to learn to "do it myself"! I am not sorry.....He probably wouldn't have been inclined to help me anyway.....that is not his thing. He is better now after I take him by the hand and lead him to the project and say lets get started. (a slight exaggeration...very slight).

Barbara,

We can do any thread we want. In the fall as gardening activities drop off, we discuss and plan and plan and discuss and 'chat' about anything/everything even vaguely related to gardening. There's really no limits.

Anyone can start a thread on any topic and people can respond (or not) as they choose.

Glenda, Oh honey, please don't feel bad about posting here. We love having you here and now that you post here regularly, you are one of "us" as much as you are one of "them". I always thought the Ozark forum was fairly active? But, sometimes forums go through cycles. Anyway, we are thrilled to have you here and I would really miss you if you stop posting here. You are "my kind of people". Jay is in southwestern Kansas and we love him just as much as if he was in Oklahoma with us too. So, you non-Okies should understand that we don't let a silly little thing like state borders deter us from our mission of discussing gardening.

In fact, I think all non-Okies who post here automatically receive status as an honorary Oklahoman!

I have had a lot of disease on my plants too and I bought spray but didn't bother spraying it. (I hate spraying because it ends my habit of picking cherry tomatoes and eating them in the garden as I work.) I am planning to spray next year, alternating a copper fungicide with chlorothalonil. El Nino is supposed to return this winter and for us that normally means a lot more moisture in winter and spring than we need, so it seems smart to me to just go ahead and plan on spraying and be ready for it.

Beth, You are one of us now and everything I said to Glenda about her and Jay having status here as 'honorary Okies' applies to you too. We love having you here and when you are too busy to post, I miss you on this forum.

I think we all have Little Red Hen sydrome to a certain extent. My husband and son know how to do everything in the garden, and they know exactly why you do what you do. However, that doesn't mean they want to to it! When it is eating time, though, they're there!

A week or two ago, my son looked at all the stuff I had canned this year and said "Mom, you need a root cellar!" I agreed with him and wanted to ask him if he was going to dig me one (actually, in our clay, it really would take a bulldozer) but he tore his rotator cuff at work and can't use his arm, so I couldn't even tease him about helping me.

I try to look at my time in the garden as just THAT: "my time". The guys can be inside watching TV or on a computer or running here and there to fires or training classes or whatever. That's fine. That's their thing. The garden is my thing. My son did help me in the garden a LOT until he turned 16 and got a driver's license. And, DH helps if I ask him to, but I normally only ask for his help with something I can't do physically.

One funny thing is that DH is developing an obsession with canning. LOL I think it is mostly because we have a bumper crop of hot peppers and he adores hot peppers. At the rate we're going, we're going to have a jar of salsa put up for every week of the eating season, and I am not sure if one jar per week will be enough. Since DS became a professional firefighter he does seem more interested in cooking with fresh herbs and produce. That, of course, is because firefighters spend almost as much time cooking/eating as they do training for fires and fighting fires.

I always eat whatever I want in the garden (or house!) with or without them. I figure it is my garden, my produce and I get to eat it. I've worked for it, I've earned it, and I am going to eat it. I definitely have LRH syndrome in that regard.

Debra, You pet peeve is a great one and I can add to that. I hate it when a first-year gardener tries to tell me how to garden. That's more of a local thing, with someone stopping by to meet me and to look at the garden and then trying to tell me what I am doing "wrong". LOL

I also hated it the first 2 or 3 years here when a bunch of old farmers/ranchers in their 80s tried to tell me how to garden because they don't really garden---they farm. They use tractors, they have narrow rows and wide paths, they don't compost (though some turn plant residue back into the soil at the end of the season), they don't mulch, they don't companion plant, they don't have raised beds, they use chemicals, etc. They drove me batty.

After they realized I was going to grow my way (wide rows in raised beds, narrow paths, companion planting, mulch, beneficial insects, no chemical pesticides, etc.) and not theirs, they left me alone. Some of them even gave me old spoiled hay for mulch and 'fresh' cow manure from their barns.

What really sealed the deal though was that my garden was outproducing theirs so they had to shut up. Now they treat me like I am not such an idiot after all, but it took a few years of successful gardening for me to earn their respect. I knew I had "arrived" as a gardener here when the old farmers starting asking me about organic solutions to different gardening issues. Maybe they didn't go home and do it the way I described it, but at least they were interested in learning about it.

I appreciate your comments, Debra. I do try to differentiate between what I've tried successfully (or not), or what others have done and told me about. What works for one of us may not work for another because we all have different soil, different rainfall, etc. I just love how we all learn from one another. I've been gardening a very long time, but I continue to learn something new (and usually more than one new thing) here on this forum every single day. How amazing is that? No matter how much you know or think you know, there is such a wealth of information available, and many ways of doing things. I love trying new methods and techniques, and the ones I try tend to be ones I've learned about here.

I also like to try to explain the 'science' behind gardening so that we know why certain things happen. Here's an example. I grew up with a dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles and neighbors who raised all kinds of veggies and fruit. There were things I 'knew' from them, like what kinds of onions to plant, for example. What I didn't know was why only those onions grew well here. Once I learned about daylength and its influence on the bulbing of onions, I felt so smart! So, I like sharing that kind of knowledge when I can because it helps us to know why/how things work, not just that they work.

I hope all this mental stimulation helps keep our brains young and healthy in the same way that the physical work of gardening strengthens our bodies.

Dawn

LOL, so many things have been said that make me want to comment. You kids KNOW BETTER than to get me started!!

Debra, do you know my DH? He goes in for his work-out at the hospital workout center three times a week where he has his little circle of friends who garden. They think HE is the gardener. (*SNORT*) Sometimes people will stop at our back gate to ask questions and we let them in to look around if they seem like they're sincere. He is usually the one that takes over and gives the "tour". I've heard him give out some of the most outlandish information that I usually hasten to correct, but I wonder what kinds of things he says to those people he talks to when I'm not around! Truly, if you haven't seen someone's garden and really know whether they work it or not, you want to take everything they say with a grain of salt. He does do the heavy work that I cannot do, and he makes connections with folks for things I need, like concrete block, etc., and goes and gets it, even though we end up doctoring him for poison ivy and tick-bites, so I'm appreciative of his help, but he doesn't choose which seed to plant, doesn't plant, doesn't weed, doesn't harvest, doesn't help with the canning and preserving, and for the most part, doesn't know what he's talking about. And I really wish he'd quit that.

I, too, am annoyed at the sense of entitlement people have. They just assume if you have a garden you're going to have excess. I posted a year or two ago about my neighbor across the street who used some pretty extreme methods to guilt me into sharing my tomatoes with her. I almost never have extra to share because of my limited space, and told her so, but she really put me through it. She has this way of putting in little "digs" here and there. I just can't stand people who ugly to you under a veil of fake "niceness" and she was just a master at it. She has some severe medical issues and gets more mileage out of them than anyone I've ever known. She isn't shy about asking people to do for her and takes a mile when you give her an inch. There for awhile, she knew DGS was the one who usually answered the phone over here, and she started calling and asking him for help. He was going over there several times every day helping her with every little thing. When he hurt himself lifting her wheelchair out of the trunk of her car "so her husband wouldn't have to do it", I put a stop to it and told her not to ask him for help any more. Of course she made me feel like a heel doing that, and DGS didn't understand how I could be so cruel, but some people will take from you without qualms. BTW, this is the same woman whose husband stripped all the tomatoes out of their next-door neighbor's garden when they were told they could pick the ripe ones during the week they were gone on vacation.

And yes, getting OT a little bit, there is an entire segment of population here in the US that is second and third and fourth generation moocher. Not only do they prey upon kind-hearted people's sympathies with their hard-luck stories and out-and-out lies, they don't know how to be truly grateful. They disrespect those they can con into doing for them and giving to them, and they say, "If they're stupid enough to believe everything I tell them, they DESERVE to be taken to the cleaners!" I find it particularly annoying that they use their innocent little children as a way to survive without having to hold down a job. This was the hardest lesson my children and my grandchildren have had to learn. And I really hated that they had to learn it. There may be times when people have to reach out for help, but there's a difference between those who do so in order to get on their feet and once again be able to take care of themselves and their families, or those who have worked hard all their lives and are now old, and those for whom it is a way of life from the cradle to the grave. Our welfare system needs a complete overhaul. There are too many perfectly healthy people standing around with nothing to do.

I don't like generic seed packages either, but when I'm trading with individuals, I'm just glad to get the seed! I am learning, since the Moon and Stars melon, to try to know the trader better. I wasted my growing space, my water and my time growing those.

I have squash bugs and they are gray to almost white ugly things. Mostly though I hate slugs and sow bugs. And I'm beginning not to like Morning Glories very much this summer. The birds, I guess, have scattered the seed, and they're coming up in several unexpected places.

Another thing that hacks me off is people that take stuff without my knowledge. There was the person who chopped off the head of one of my best Mammoth sunflowers, before the seed was mature thank you very much, several years ago. Last summer I caught a lady standing outside my gate picking the seed pods off my hollyhocks. I didn't see her at first, but the dog did, and I said to the dog, "What are you doing?" and SHE replied to me, "Oh, I'm just admiring your flowers." but I saw she had a handful of stuff she stuck in her pocket before she walked calmly away. She had a little girl with her. What a thing to show off to your kid.

And the last thing that i'm going to mention is that I hate clique-ey forums. I'm so grateful that this forum isn't one of them, and I have truly enjoyed being a part of this forum and getting to know those of you who post here.

Ilene - "Give him a fish and feed him for a day, or teach him to fish and let him feed himself for a lifetime." I give away extra transplants, but rarely give produce. There are a few exceptions, but they are close neighbors that do nice things for me all of the time.

I hate those people who look at your garden and say, "My gosh, what are you going to do with all of this?" However, I might have done the same thing if I had watched George pick his 8 gallons of beans yesterday. LOL No, really, I do know what he will do with it.

My mother had two daughters and we are 13 years apart in age so I grew up like an only child. My mother would look in my kitchen and say, "You will never eat all of this." She never had to feed a large family, or a lot of friends, or a fire department. LOL I also grew up very independent, and I could do just about everything for myself. After I broke my back, it limited a few things for me and I have to ask for help for some.

Advise for younger ladies.....I have discovered one thing about men. If you ask once, then they can easily saw, "Oh, I forgot about that." If you ask twice, then they think your nagging. I ask once and if that doesn't do it I start it myself. Sometimes I finish it myself, but sometimes I get help. LOL

I finally got my cabbage in this morning. I have run out of room until I clear the three feet near my north fence that is thick with roots. Well, actually, I still have my new raised bed but I'm still working on that.

Another pet peeve. A couple years ago, I bought two azaleas from Lowe's or WalMart, I'm not sure which. They were nice size plants in gallon pots. When I got them home to plant and turned them out, most of the soil fell away leaving a root ball shaped exactly like a quart pot, with roots wrapped all around. The plants had been kept much too long in the small pots and then repotted right before selling, for a higher price. That annoyed me.

Then last week, I bought a jumbo nine pack of fall cabbage and found the same thing. When I turned the plants out, the roots were crammed into a thimble size ball with almost no roots in the rest of the section. Now I occassionally leave my baby plants a little too long before I pot them up to bigger pots, but I'm not selling them. It's unethical, IMO.

And in the garden, annual grass and morning glories are on my hate list along with three different kinds of blister beetles--black, grey and striped.

But I don't have garden moochers. We are so privately located that the only people who know we have a garden are those we invite onto the property--and youse guys, a' course.

But I do have elderly parents who I share as much as I can with and daughters and granddaughters who help when they can but I share even when they can't because they are so busy. And a couple close friends. After the hail I took a plastic WalMart sack full of green tomatoes to a friend that I knew liked them. She doesn't have a garden but today she brought me a couple sacks of pears from her tree. I like those kinds of trades. She knew the late freeze wiped out my pears this year.

One of my peeves is plants sold as perennials that aren't hardy in your zone. Another is throwing plants away rather than marking them way down and letting some gardener nurse them back to health. Home Depot will have bulbs or tender plants and they may be full price two weeks before frost. At least Lowes' marks things down and clears them out where you can occasionally catch a bargain.

Love a bargain. Once had a friend who saw bulbs--lots of bulbs--at a WalMart in late fall marked way down. When the garden worker saw her basket full he said, come back at five, everything that's left goes into the dumpster. She brought her pickup and bought retail value $2,000.00 of bulbs for $10.00--and then called me because I'd given her a ton of stuff. A lot of the bulbs were already dead but many were still alive. I still have crocus and lots of daffs, and some of the tulips lived for 10 years before finally croaking. The gophers ate most of the hyacinths though.

Another pet peeve. Stores that sell annual veggies and flowers and let them dry out and die.

ok - you guys have flat covered just about every single thing we can possibly run in to! I can't think of a "peeve" that hasn't been covered!

I thought I was the only "weirdo" that hung out at the Lowe's "trash" or clearance shelves! I've bought Rose Wigelia, perrineal vinca's and photinia's from those (the photinia's were $1 each, regularly $13!!!) Our Wigelia have been absolutely stunning the last 2 years..and to think they were going to throw them out! The vinca's were so puny when I got them, but they have almost filled a 15 x 5 ft. space!

Haven't had any dealings with my 2-legged theives of late...but I'm sure it's coming. They only live next door and with the rain, they don't get out much.

I'm going to start another thread on Nematodes because I have few more questions. I'll still come back here to check too...it's gratifying to know that so many of us share so many of the same "irritations"!!!

And by the way...."BOOMER SOONER"!!!!!! ( I know, not a gardening thing but definitely an Oklahoma thing!)

Paula

And for you "Honorary Oklahomans" - I have very close friend that lives as far away as just outside of Starkville, Mississippi. I shared w/her my delight in finding this forum this last spring so she looked up her area when she got home and was horribly dissappointed at the lack of info and postings. She's popped over here several times to read and search for info and it seems to be her opinion that we are just a really tradition southern bunch of folk! Imagine that! I told her Okie's were a better bunch! LOL I couldn't be happier or more proud of all of you!

Paula

My #1 peeve is SVB's, I hate them with a passion, I've had at least a "little" success with all other garden problems, but those evil creatures truly make me mad.
My DW and I really love zucchini's but I have to keep a succession of new plants coming along to replace the ones the SVB's have killed. (You know I just realized something, if you change the middle letter, it could be a cuss word) Ha, how appropriate.

DW is not a gardener tho she is a great cook, and she loves to can and fix stuff to put in the freezer, and I like to garden, so we have a good system worked out, and what's funny in thinking back on it, when she hears me ranting about the SVB's she'll say something like, well spray it with something. LOL, Lord give me patience.

#2. Tools, I don't like loaning my "real" garden tools, which are usually old tools that I have bought at yard sales or other places and fixed up, or tools that I have experimented with trying to make a better tool,(Hoes mostly) most old tools are better then the ones you can buy now days. I've started keeping a set of loaners just in case someone should ask to borrow one.
Have you ever had someone return your stirrup hoe and inform you that he fixed it for you, so its solid, and don't move around any more? yeeeessss it seems there really are people like that out there.
What can you say? Lord give me patience.

#3.I truly love giving stuff to people when I know that they appreciate it. and I do like to help people, but you know, there are some out there in never never land who think gardening really doesn't cost all that much, just put a seed in the ground and let-er grow, and its really not all "that" much work, maybe those people should try it (Not likely) and then let us know if they still feel that way, tho I'll have to admit its not exactly work to me, mostly fun, and maybe a little therapeutic.
Once again Lord, give me patience.
James.

Did anybody mention Japanese Beetles? Didn't think of them earlier because they are finally gone and my roses and cannas and crepe myrtles are now blooming in peace, and the pole beans that George gave me seed for are producing without having their leaves eaten, but when they were here they were our #1 gardening pest. Dumped 5 gallons of the nasty things out of eight traps and the other day found a ninth trap that my brother had dumped almost a gallon out of and was 1/3 full again. Hate them, HATE THEM!!

Oh, James, James, James. LOL

We used to have a neighbor that would borrow tools from DH all the time. One thing in particular he borrowed a lot, and finally brought it over and said, "It broke." No offer to help pay for another, acted as if we were at fault for loaning him a faulty tool. DH asked him why he just didn't buy his own tools and he said, "Why should I go to that expense when I can always come over and borrow from you?" That was the last time he was allowed to borrow anything, and he withdrew his conditional friendship shortly after the first couple of refusals. His girlfriend wrote us a letter and chewed us out because we "should do everything we could to help them out since they were struggling and we had the ability to do so." Gee-mun-eeeeee! I get annoyed when my kids let it be known they have this attitude, I sure don't need it from virtual strangers!

I hate invasive plants and how you don't get told that they are when you buy. I planted pink primrose five years ago and they were sure pretty. The next year, they jumped from where they were planted and I still pull a few every spring. I'm really bummed out to find out that the passion vine that I started from seed, and babied along, and then I was so thrilled when it took off and started blooming and making pods, looks like it's going to be invasive, too. Not so much the two I planted in front, because they're surrounded by concrete, but the one that came up as a surprise (apparently the seed was in the potting soil that I planted my red salvia in and it came up after the salvia was transplanted), is suckering up from the root in two spots out in the grass, probably four feet away from where the vine is growing. I know there was no seed scattered there because it's all still in the pods and not ripe yet. Guess it's time for Round-Up, and I just HATE to use that.

Another thing that annoys me is neighbors that plant invasive stuff, right up next to the property line. I fought Brown Eyed Susans for three or four years after one summer of them being planted next door. NOW, they've got a trumpet vine planted on their fence, right next to my corner-post.

Dorothy, can you put down Milky Spore for those Japanese Beetles? If you have a lot of open land around you, it might not help much, but might be worth a try.

I get kind of annoyed at the stores around here that would rather destroy their un-salable plants than to give them away or sell them real cheap. They say it cuts into their ability to sell the good plants. That doesn't even enter into the equation for me, and for most others that would go to the trouble to nurse a sick plant back to health.

Our next-door neighbor hired a lawn service last spring. They came out and sprayed chemicals all over their bermuda lawn. To kill the weeds and to feed the bermuda, they said. Y'all know what I thought! And I really worried about the chemical drift over into my yard. And having the park outside our back gate might end up to be a problem for us now that we have a new City Manager. They sprayed the park for weeds last spring, and came awfully close to my yard. I called the City to tell them I was concerned and I didn't want their herbicide drifting in my yard and damaging my garden. I am the only one with a garden on this block. A friend of mine lost her entire garden when a neighbor had herbicide applied to his property that bordered hers. She was just sick. She had about ten acres and had a big garden.

Paula,

I hope you'll tell your friend in Mississippi that she can post here regularly and talk gardening with us all she wants! No where is it written that you 'must' live in Oklahoma to be an Oklahoman. Can't we make her an honorary Okie too?

I do think we have one of the more active state forums, especially considering the relatively small population in Oklahoma.

James, For the SVBs, cut lengths of panty hose legs into 4-6" pieces. When you plant your squash, put the panty hose around the stem like a necklace or collar. If you can, get some of it above ground and some of it below ground. I try to get 1-2" underground even if it means holding the young plant in its starter pot a little longer so it can get bigger before I plant. (You can do this with direct seeded ones after they sprout but it is harder to get the hose underground without disturbing the roots.) As the plant grows, pull up more of the hose necklace/collar to cover more of the stem. The hose keeps the borers out and gives your plants a higher chance of survival. Since it stretches as they grow, I think it works better than aluminum foil, which some people wrap around their squash stems for the same purpose.

I hate SVBs too....and didn't lose a plant to them this year. (Although that might be luck and not the pantyhose 'collars'.)

Ilene, I made the same mistake with pink evening primrose a few years ago and they attempted to take over the entire yard and garden. This past April's rain must have drowned them because I only had 1 or 2, instead of 1 or 2 hundred or thousand, this year. I love the way they look, but they don't belong anywhere near a civilized yard or garden.

My pet peeve is one of Helen's---stores that sell zone 10 or 11 plants here and don't advise they are not perennial here. If people want to spend all that money on tender shrubs and vines that are only going to live one season, that's fine, but I think a lot of inexperienced people buy those plants expecting them to come back.

Another pet peeve--stores that sell cool-season plants too late in spring...like selling broccoli plants in late May or June when it is too late for them to produce....and warm-season plants too late in fall. Our local Walmart got in a shipment of fresh fall tomatoes and peppers and basil after Labor Day! September is kinda late for tomatoes and peppers to produce much before the first hard frost, but lots of folks bought them.

Oh, and another one, stores that sell long daylength onions here where only short and intermediate daylength onions will grow....how's that for setting up someone for failure.

Finally, another pet peeve is the magazine now called OG that used to be called Organic Gardening and used to be worth reading. It has gone so far downhill the last 4 or 5 years that it isn't work buying any more, and Mother Earth News is not far behind. I miss the good old days when there were lots of good gardening magazines full of great information. Today's magazines are mostly a poor imitation of the great ones from the past.

Dawn

Add Japanese Beetles to my list too! I am a member of the 5 gallon club too......now the moles are so bad in the yard that it looks like a war zone. I hope they are eating the Japanese Beetle grubs.

For some strange reason this year, nothing bothered the squash. The garden is covered with vines of Butternut, Long Island Cheese squash and Pie Pumpkins. I am cooking a butternut for lunch today. The LI Cheese are just turning slightly and the pumpkins are getting a nice orange. Maybe they are making up for the sorry tomatoes. I used mulch heavily too and do see the sow bugs, but no damage so far from them.

I made note of the Slug-Go Plus for next year for the hostas which are so sorry looking each year that I am ashamed of them due to slugs.

Anyone know whatever happened to the brand that packaged the granules and it was named "Slug Bait"? I used it for years when I lived southside OKC because my entry had little courtyard....which was very very shaded. I had the most beautiful hostas and impatiens with that little helper. Can't find it anymore. My friend in Mississippi has searched high & low too and can't find anything close! You know she REALLY needs it in that old river clay with all their trees!

And how to these box stores get away with selling plants out of their season? They "supposedly" buy according to our region and zone, but I think someone at the top has a screw loose! In my younger years, I bought purple fountain grass and had dreams of years ahead of the beautiful, airy plumes....only to find out it dies in our winters! pppppttttthhhhhhh!

Paula

Paula,

You can still buy the chemically-based slug and snail bait that has metaldehyde as its active ingredient. Is that the one you remember? It seems to me that many people are opting more and more to leave it on the shelf because the metalydehyde is deadly to wildlife and dogs and cats. In fact, metaldehyde is toxic to ALL animals (including humans) that ingest it in a large enough quantity (compared to their body weight and metabolic rate, I assume) and there is no antidote.

The toxicity is why iron phosphate snail and slug baits have become more popular--they are non-toxic.

I've linked the metaldehyde wiki for you. It is fairly concise but does discuss the toxicity in a bit more detail.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Metaldehyde Wiki

Well, we took a drive out to Lowe's to look for Slug Bait. I decided it was better to do it right away before they did any more damage. It was really hard to find, because Lowe's keeps their organic garding stuff separated from the non-organic stuff. Was the Slug Bait with the Ortho Slug Bait that uses Metaldehyde? No... and we almost left the store without finding it. But, yup, there it was tucked in between the Neem Oil and something else.

DGS and DH went out to the back yard with me and DGS pulled up a lot of stuff for me that had gotten overgrown, and several "stubs" of tomato plants that I had pruned and that didn't add new growth. I broadcast the Slug Bait in the beds and put down some DE on top of the ant hills. I don't know if DE will work on the ants but I can't think of anything else to try. DH moved some hay around because DGS is allergic. DGS took apart some of the tomato cages and stored them away. I nipped back some things and unwound the volunteer Morning Glory from several things, then DGS came and pulled them up from the root. There are several things I'm going to have to use Round Up on. It was nice to get some stuff done outside after a week of being sidelined, except for picking beans and a few tomatoes.

All this brings me to another pet peeve and that is that it is so hard to find things here! It was a year after I'd ordered DE on-line that Lowe's started carrying it. Nobody but Green Thumb even KNEW what Tanglefoot was, and they only had the version that you smear on. I would've much rather had it in a spray but couldn't get it here. Nobody carries Milky Spore -- I have to order it -- but they sell all kinds of traps and poison peanuts and stuff that doesn't work. One of the Tulsa TV stations has a garden guy on their morning news program and he did a thing on mole control and didn't even mention Milky Spore. I go places and ask for things I've seen talked about amongst other gardeners and everyone I ask just looks at me like I've lost my mind. None of the farm and ranch supply places sell powdered molasses, they tell me it's in the feed that they sell so they don't have a market for it. When I was trying to find a really good brand of dog and cat food because I had seen a study on how poor what I was using was, I finally found a small feed store here in Dewey that stocked one of the brands that came highly recommended. But if they stop selling it, the next closest place is Owasso. Every year, around Christmas, there's this big push to "Buy Bartlesville", and I try to as much as I can, but it would sure help if they'd keep up with the times.

Ilene,

It is getting a tiny bit easier to find some organic solutions here, but when we first moved here, there was nothing.

Heck, when we first moved here, the road was gravel, the bridge north of us was "out" so we had to go south only, and there was NO internet service, NO cell phone service in our house (although you could walk 300' own to the road and have service) and only one TV station that you could pick up with an antenna mounted on top of the house. All those things have improved, but slowly.

I try to keep a list of what I'll need "next year" and I pick it up when we are in Dallas, Fort Worth or wherever during the fall and winter. During the growing season, I'll just order it and pay shipping but I do try to get all of it I can ahead of time.

In small towns, finding organic supplies is a vicious cycle. You can't buy it if they don't carry it and they don't carry it because not enough people ask for it. I bet lots of people walk in, look around, don't see the organic supplies they need, and so they leave. If they don't ask a clerk, and particularly a manager, the store managers don't realize the demand is there and don't order organic products. Just the last couple of years, I'm seeing more organic supplies in several stores, including our local Tractor Supply Stores, but they all have a long way to go.

One of the posters on the Harvest forum has mentioned using 20% vinegar several times and every time he mentioned it, I thought to myself "Hey, Marshall Grain Company in Ft. Worth has that." One day, this poster who I believe is in Massachusetts mentioned how hard it is to find 20% vinegar. Guess where he orders his from? Marshall Grain in Fort Worth. So, we're not the only ones who can't find what we want locally.

Dawn

Bermuda grass. Nuff said.

Patty,

I agree that nothing is worse. Hate it, hate it, hate it..and I can't believe somebody hadn't already mentioned it already.

Dawn

Dawn,
I'll keep posting here if you guys don't mind me and my delayed reactions... LOL! My oldest has a cold and my youngest has a toothache... made for a fun weekend (not!).
I could yell about how peeved I am at dentists, but that would be totally OT. :)
I do have a situation to add. For me, being a beginner, I get LOTS of people telling me I HAVE to do things a certain way. (Not on here, IRL.) The worst has been my FIL... he's a rather outspoken guy. He used some stuff called "SuperThrive" this year, and kept harping at me to use it too. WELL, I DIDN'T WANNA! LOL! Yes, he did have tomatoes the size of grapefruits, but it's a growth hormone! He emailed me saturday night, RUBBING IT IN that I didn't listen to him and he had better yield than I did. Well, he's also on the side of a mountain in Hot Springs, with a lovely climate compared to ours (he plants his tomatoes on April 1st).
I take any and all advice that I can get, that way I can get a better picture of what I'm doing. BUT, I also like to just try it on my own and see what happens. My garden is different from his garden!
Another thing, that goes along with people who expect help. Some of ya'll know we got ourselves off of Food Stamps, right? We're BARELY making it, but we are! In Arkansas, you can buy plants with your food stamps... BUT, there's really NO resource to help people in planting or growing their own food! I even went to our local extension office, only to get directed to the website... which isn't very informative. Blows my little pea brained mind! It's like the powers that be don't want the people on government assistance to learn things that might make them feel better about their lives. Just cash that check (so to speak) and wait for the next one. This supremely bugs me... you'd think that a highly agri area like mine would be better about this.

Beth

Beth, I would be glad to help you with seeds for your spring planting if that would be any help. Is your garden large or small? Carol

Beth,

The FIL thing is a battle you can't win because he'd be mad if your garden outproduced his. Then, he'd likely turn it into a battle for the earliest ripe one, or the most pounds of tomatoes per plant or whatever. I'm afraid you'll just have to put up with him since you married his son. LOL I have some competitive old farmer types like that here.

I bet that some of us here can send you some tomato seeds that will outperform his!

I understand your frustration with an ag extension service that is not of tremendous help to a beginning home gardener. There are some great programs to teach folks how to grow their own, but they tend to be centered in big urban areas like Chicago or Detroit or LA where there's lots of people on food stamps and no grocery stores that sell fresh produce. (The big grocery stores have left the poor urban centers, driven out by crime/shoplifting, etc.)

Stick with us and we'll teach you all you need to know about growing your own!

You pet peeves are great ones, by the way.

Like Carol, I'll be happy to share seeds with you for spring planting. You know me---I buy too many (an affliction Carol shares with me, but we grin and bear it) and always have extras!

Dawn

I'm SO grateful to have found this forum! Hubby says I have a knack for finding the nicest people on the web... LOL! Of course I'll accept any seeds ya'll are willing to share, and be totally thankful for each seed I get! Let me measure out areas and see what I might need, and I'll update my page with my thoughts!
Thanks alot ya'll... very appreciative here! :))))

Beth-

My DEEPEST SYMPATHY goes to you about your FIL!!! I don't know if you read a previous thread where I posted problems I'm having with my IL's helping themselves to our jalepenos. Last year, they tried to get some of our sweet potatoes! Since we started our own garden, we've had to endure all kinds of advice that just plain didn't make ANY sense (like stir the dirt so the moisture underneath will come up????? or don't water so the roots will go deeper??I thought that just helped it dry out! ). But I digress....

Kuddos to you for getting off the stamps! We are trying to teach my youngest daughter ways to manage the same trick. She's coming around slowly.

I don't have many seeds to share...yet. Maybe some ambrosia melons and marconi peppers. They're still drying. But I WILL share something I found this year on-line that was of great help to us. It's from the Univ. of Arkansas's "Home Gardening series". There is a PDF publication of just about every thing you could want to grow. I printed out the ones that pertained to what we were growing and I've referred back to them time and again this year. Made my own notebook! I've attached the link which I hope you'll save. But always, always come back here. Nothing like live feed to help you tweek the issue!

I'm not a guru or even close like others on this forum, but I'll look forward to more of your posts!

Add to my list of Pet Peeves....In-Laws, ones own parents or self-professed Know It Alls that insist you garden their way and try to one-up you!

Paula

Here is a link that might be useful: Univ. of ARK Home Gardening Series

I keep a lot of notes. I started out just putting everything into one big document but it made it so big and disorganized that I finally just started keeping separate ones. Just named them simply, "Gourds", "Garlic", "Tomatoes", "Peppers", etc so I can find them quickly. I never print them out cause then I lose them! Or they get wet and the ink runs. I have found that some things grow better in containers, some grow better at ground level and some grow better in raised beds. And all that probably depends on the type of soil a person has. Mine is black gumbo clay.

Beth, I'm proud of you for having the resolve to get off government assistance. I deplore the way the program is run. I would so love to see them add classes for the people on their programs. Many of them don't even know how to cook so they're spending those food stamps on expensive convenience foods instead of, say, buying a whole chicken. I get three good meals out of one whole chicken. When I'm done with it, there's nothing left but some soft bones and a little limp skin, which I bury out in the garden and then put something on top of it so the dog can't dig it up.

But anyway, education is the key, to my mind, and you are wise to be trying to learn to garden. Even if a person can only grow something in a pot, they gain knowledge from the experience. There was a man selling corn out of his truck in a parking lot near here over the weekend. He was getting $7 a dozen for his ears of corn and they weren't real big. And he had a few black diamond watermelon but he wouldn't sell them because he said the ones he had sold had come back because they weren't ripe yet. He was selling them for $10 each. He'll probably be back next weekend with ripe ones, if all this rain doesn't split and ruin them all. Think of all the corn you could grow for $7, and all the watermelon you could grow for $10. Even if the rain did split the melons, if you got out there right away, brught them in and processed them, you'd still get good value.

You can save seed from grocery store vegetables. Sometimes they'll be hybrids so they won't grow exactly like what you bought, but they'll grow something. I've gotten some wonderful cantaloupe by having the seed in the compost bin germinate. And I planted grocery store Arkansas tomatoes this year. They made beautiful round tomatoes but the flavor wasn't nearly as good as George's Baker Family Heirlooms. Sometimes I check out the marked down produce just for the seed that I might get. Last year I grew spaghetti squash from the seed of a grocery store purchase.

True, so many people don't know how to cook. I actually wrote a book for my kids and any friends who were interested about how to eat better on a budget. My daughter who runs a home day care has given several of them to the parents who come. Their kids come to her home knowing only junk food and after a few months complain that they want food like "Miss Beth makes." One grandfather stopped her in the grocery store and asked her where she got the corn that she fed his granddaughters because they refused to eat what he served them. "From Mom's garden," she said.

Now though she has too many children to serve them my produce so has to buy separately for the daycare from the store. She still serves whole grain, homemade, fresh veggies and fruits though. Her own children get sick so much less often than so many of them that the parents ask what she does differently and she recommends good books on children's health like Adelle Davis's Let's Have Healthy Children or Lendon Smith's Feed Your Kids Right. Taste and money saving are not the only advantages to gardening. There is good health to be had.

Ilene touched on one of my pet peeves. My failing memory. I used to be able to remember stuff better. I have a garden journal in the garden now that I take notes in and record rainfall and weather--frosts etc. I keep it in a large mailbox that DH put on a fence post along with small garden tools and paper towel rolls stuffed with WM sacks to carry in small amounts of stuff.

Paula,
THANKS for pointing me back to the UA site! My adobe reader wasn't working proper when I looked at it before, and I got mad at the site... LOL! Now I've got it re-done and hopefully I'll be able to d/l those!

And thanks to all of ya'll for the nice words about the government assitance. It's been a long road, and honestly my second time down it. This time I'm a whole lot older and wiser tho, so I'm hoping the steps we've been taking are the right ones to keep us above the poverty line. I have some extreme views of GA, being thru it like I have been. YES, it's not the greatest system in the world, but it's much better now than it was fifteen years ago. I wish they gave basic living classes too, it's a much needed thing! Bet they do in bigger cities. Right now they're mainly trying to push GA recipients into a college or trade school... which I understand. BUT, classes like that aren't for everybody. You can't push a square peg into a round hole... and I'm about as square a peg as they get... LOL! We're still on the State insurance for the kids, and I'm just so grateful for it! My oldest has glasses and they both have their teeth worked on and fixed... that's a great relief to me.
I'm working towards packing all I can in my yard to supplement our food supply AND sell when I can. This year wasn't a banner year, but I've done enough to make it worthwhile considering I'm doing it all on a shoestring budget. I'm also toying around with the idea of doing a plant sale in the spring... just gotta get all my ducks in a row and all that. I enjoy growing things SO MUCH, I'm sure there's ways to make this a type of business for me! I've allready been saving seed from my okra and butternut squash.
On my FIL? LOL... well, he's just a jerk. I know he cares about us and all that, but there's just times you have to say, "Whatever Jim!" and move on! He's lucky I'm such an easygoing chick... lol!
Ya'll have a great day! We're under flash flood warnings for most of the day today. If you look at a weather map, I'm right on the border of Missouri's bootheel. Keep your fingers crossed that we don't float away! :)

Beth

Lets hope we all dont float away! Its raining again, the wind is terrible. I need SUNSHINE :)

This year my gardening pet peeve was aggressive mocking birds. They have never been this bad in our yard, we would occasionally get a blue jay attack the dog but never mocking birds attacking my cat.

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After the attack she stopped going down to the garden with me. She stayed on the porch. Very sad :(

Garden Gal, last year I had a pair of mockingbirds nest in a rose bush in the middle of a flower bed. At first they yelled" at me the whole time I was working there, then when the eggs were laid they dived near me, but after the babies were there they pecked me on the backside when I tried to work there. Things got a little weedy till the babies fledged!