Calcium Deficiency?

Verm,

Okay. Perhaps I didn't mix in enough lime...?
Thank you for the input!

Of course, right after this post, I discovered 4 nicely hidden aphids on it, though that's not enough to be the reason for this curled condition, I think. It's finally warming up around here....it was a matter of time. :-/

Grace

So I have since transplanted this plant into a 3 gallon pot, and did mix in lime while doing so. It has some blooms and many buds.

But the real oddity is that ALL of my pepper plants, especially compared to everyone else's photos of pepper plants, have curled (and generally smaller) leaves. The jalapeño had about 10-12 aphids I crushed off a few leaves but other than that -- no bugs at all. Putting aside the curled and smaller state of leaves -- they all appear otherwise healthy, though I did nearly drown the serranos last week when I forgot to dump the tray these pots are sitting in. But the leaf state was the same before that little mishap.

Black Pearl:

Serrano:

The same jalapeño shown in the opening post, pictured today:

And my embarrassingly tiny habaneros -- which are ALSO showing curled leaves in its first real leaves:

They all have the same location (and sun), different sized pots, and are watered together, generally. They are all in 5-1-1 soil. I'm inclined to think I skewed something in the soil and then I'm inclined to think it's the amount of lime. Too little?

Strangely, the same exact soil also houses my tomatoes which show no oddities (and I did just run out there to check on the leaf captured in the Black Pearl photo because it looked like aphids but it was just lighting -- no bugs!); the leaves look exactly as I expect. As I really haven't done seeds until this year (and I've confirmed I don't have the patience for this, lol), I'm not sure how to even begin troubleshooting here, and thought someone here may recognize what is going on.

Thoughts?

Grace

What are you using for fertlizer and how often have you used? Also depending on what lime you used it may or may not contain magnesium. I would think based on the leaves curling up hey may need some Mg. I usually dont recommend using Epsom salt but in this case it may be what's needed. I would treat one plant and view the results after a week. I've used a mix of 2 table spoons to one gallon, though some use 3.

Hope this helps get your plants in the right direction.

Mark

Mark, I use 1/4 strength FP with a sprinkle of Epsom Salt (almost 1 tsp per gallon, approximately, as I don't measure anything--which explain why I sucked at chemistry) for these with every watering. As of late, I have watered them twice with a "hydrolyzed" fish and seaweed fertilizer from Neptune but the leaves were curled long before that. At the last watering, I just watered plain.

Hmm, perhaps I should increase the Epsom salt for one to 3 TBSP per gallon and trial, like you said. :-) I have more serranos than I need so I will try one Serrano and one pathetic habanero seedling just for kicks!

Thanks, Mark!

Grace

Grace I would not add any more Epsom salt since you are using FP 1/4 and epsom at every watering. Also make sure your lime does or does not contain Mg if it does not then keep the one TB of epsom since you use at every watering. I am not an expert on the 5-1-1 and not sure if fertilizing that often would create a salt build up and cause uptake problems.

In my opinion if they were mine I would flush with water and water just with water for the next few waterings then return to FP 1/4 and epsom, but return to epsom only if its not with the lime, if the lime contains Mg I would nix the Epsom.

Good luck and I hope you get this issue solved.

Mark

FWIW, your Black Pearl looks just like my four - all have that upward curl to the leaves. It may be a response to more direct sun than they need right now?

Just a quick update....no better and maybe a bit more severe as far as curl, but a nice amount of buds and peppers forming on many of them once the petals have browned. I've watered twice now with only water. The newest growth is insane curly and minuscule, but still has multiple buds coming out. Aphids do like this plant, but the 5-10 it gets per day, I've been successful at removing.

Strange plant....I have to leave it for four days as I'm headed out of town today. It's only in the low 60s these days so it should be fine. Maybe it will uncurl if I'm not here! :-) I wish summer would arrive already.

Grace

I think all of your containers have the same potting soil mix.You have the same curled leaves of all your plants so I think your problem of curled leaves may be soil related.

DMForcier, Grace's BP leaves are not normal, it is not related to the sunlight direct or indirect, just my opinion.

Caelian

Caelian, I'm inclined to agree with you but have no idea WHAT is the issue. It's 5:1:1 per the directions, give or take, AND -- more confusing is how everything else, and I mean everything, haha, is doing great in the same soil. The tomatoes, shiso, dill, basil, chrysanthemum, parsley and cilantro all have no issue (with the latter bolting). Even stranger is how other than the leaf state (size and curl) -- it is growing really nicely. In fact, all the peppers are doing nicely despite all of them having this same issue, more or less. I haven't had one leaf turn colors or one bud drop.

Bizarre, I tell you. I'm having a bizarre gardening year.

Grace

Grace: If you're killing 5-10 aphids per plant a day, there's tons that you're not getting.

Try some insecticidal soap(homemade or store bought -- you can google recipes for homemade) or neem oil.

Kevin

Grace, the following text is from a Danish website:

"CURLY / deformed BLADE
First and foremost, it is said that the leaves of chinense-nature is dented and slightly curly in it. It is not a problem signs, but that they look. But if the leaves / leaf edges curl or leaves deformed and crumpled, so it is important to find the cause. Nutrient Deficiency There are a few nutrients deficiency signs are curled leaves, which are typically magnesium that is the culprit, as the plant uses most of this : Magnesium (Mg) : Starts In the lower leaves as discoloration of the ribs / leaf veins. Led yellow, then orange hubris and finally brown. The leaves feels thin, fragile, curl up by. Molybdenum : The leaves of young plants are chlorotic leaf edges yellow and curl. Old leaves are abnormally large, while young leaves remain very small. Pests: Topskudsmider can attack chilli plants. Crumpled and twisted leaves are a symptom, but it is only in the new shoots / buds, as the name indicates. Aphids: For very heavy aphid attack, the leaves become wrinkled and deformed. "

The link is in Danish so Google Chrome can translate into English.

Caelian

Here is a link that might be useful: Chili problems

I'm having the same problem with banana and habaneros. Not sure what it is but mine are in the ground. That link above took me to what looks like a German sight and I can't read German. lol

:) use Google Chrome to translate into English.

Caelian

Here is a link that might be useful: Chile Pepper Diseases

I got curled leaves too. The medium is pine bark based. The temperature and the medium I use may be the cause to curl the leaves. Today's temperature is about 20C.

{{gwi:1162913}}

In the evening it may not be curled. The plant is Lemon Drops.

Caelian

Different medium plants have no curled leaves.

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I am planning to re-pot again in different medium.

Caelian

Kevin,

I suppose I could be missing some -- but I religiously scan the top and bottom of these leaves daily. Keep in mind that while the number of leaves is substantial, the total height of this plant is barely a foot tall from the soil. Really not big, and obsessive as I am, I suspect not many aphids are getting by me, haha. That said, lately -- I don't even find a few. I think the last time I found one was about 5 days ago, and only one.

That said, this is still the strangest plant. It's overloaded with buds -- and as mentioned is merely a foot tall and almost a foot wide. The leaves are smaller and smaller, but the thing continues to grow. It has never lost a single leaf, has never even had a yellow leaf. I voluntarily snipped off a few of the lowest, largest ones because they were touching the soil. They were also the only ones that weren't curled.

I'll get updated photos tomorrow. The thing is loaded with mini peppers. I've never had such a small plant have so many small buds. BUT -- I did notice that some of the peppers have a blob of black discoloration on some. I've seen this before on other peppers and it's not worrisome in and of itself to me, but I'm hoping it helps to potentially ID the issue here.

I am THIS close to pulling it out of 5-1-1 and transplanting it to Pro-Mix HP. Without any idea what is happening, I'm uncomfortable leaving all of these peppers in my current soil. Ironically, whatever I did to mess up the soil, my tomatoes love immensely. Our weather has been disgustingly cool with 70 being a rarity (65 usually) and I'm flabbergasted that the tomatoes are acting like it's 80!

Grace

If only peppers grew like tomatoes.... ;-)

I wish I could help, Grace, but I've never seen this. I guess my mind immediately goes to nutrition. Have you ceased adding all that Epsom Salt? Too much Magnesium can make it difficult for the plant to take up Calcium.

I would also recommend a Full Strength dose of Foliage Pro, once a week. If you're feeling courageous, go even stronger: 1.5 teaspoons per gallon of water. Foliage Pro does promote compact growth and foliage, but if you increase the Nitrogen you'll see bigger growth as with any fertilizer.

Josh

Ugh, Josh - I was secretly hoping you would comment with, "Oh, I know what this is. It's __________ and you have to do ______ and _______ to fix it, Grace!"

I never attempted the 3T epsom salt recommended here because upon finding out I'm using FP, the rec was retracted, haha. It's been over a month that I've watered plain, and once fertilized with a weak solution of fish and seaweed fertilizer. I also know my city's water is very high in Ca.

OK, so I'm probably going to water tomorrow or so -- so up it to 1.5 tsp for one watering a week. Got it. I'll give it a go only on this plant.

I also took one Serrano and one Habanero seedling and transplanted into 90% ProMix HP today, and left their fellow seedlings in the 5-1-1. Curious to see if they flatten out or not....but the Jalapeno remains where it is for now.

I took a bunch of photos today. I did find a couple more aphids but again, hardly an "infestation", I'd think. (Does an aphid infestation look like this?)

As mentioned last night, I took photos today. A bunch, haha.

For scale:

Closeup of the tiny, messed up leaves:

A handful of peppers have this black action going on. Texturally it's the same as the all-green ones, and I've had this before on previous pepper plants, I think. I'm not overly concerned about this, but perhaps it's a hint as to what's wrong? A clue?

Normal pepper formation:

Note the regular vs. blackened peppers:

Prolific budding:

And others --
A Purple Flash seedling, exhibiting some curl as well:

Habanero seedling, also the same:

Booooooooo.

I so, so hope someone can ID what on earth is happening to my peppers.

Grace

Josh, I could be imagining it but I do believe the tiny leaves are a tad less tiny haha. Per your suggestion, I've been doing 2 Tsp per gallon fertilizing. The ones I moved to pure ProMix also look to be uncurling.

The Serrano seedling.

And my habaneros are actually starting to resemble a pepper plant! :-)

Excellent!
Now that the plants are looking better, you might consider reducing the dose to 1.5 teaspoons, and then finally down to 1 teaspoon. If the vitality seems to decline, increase the dose accordingly.

Josh

Josh, got it. 1.5 tsp from here on.
Thank you so much for your suggestion!

Grace

your plants look to me to have a general nutrient deficiency, as in starved of more then one element. i had a few like that, realized i was feeding them too little (also in 511), gave them a few foliar sprays with a water soluble fertilizer and then the same fertilizer as a drench,but in a higher concentration than what i usually give them. it worked, they started to grow bigger leaves and one that had heavy chlorosis (stupid aji habanero, they're known for that) grew out of it.
it is not the same for all varieties though, since all of mine are in the same medium, and only aji habanero, limon and one other...can't remember now which, were showing symptoms. i think the key is to monitor peppers when they are going into a growth spurt, and increase fertilizer accordingly.

My bizarre plant is doing a little better.
Teyo, I have upped the fertilizer considerably following Josh's advice and it appears to be doing better. The plant doesn't seem bigger but the leaves are bigger than before, and definitely not as folded.

That said, I'm no genius but I must have used a couple of thousand Jalapenos in my cooking years.....and these don't like any Jalapenos to me, haha.

Either whatever went wrong has changed the attributes of the Jalapeno, or these aren't Jalapenos.

This is my only store-bought pepper plant this year and for sure, it was labeled "Jalapeno". I'm not even sure when to think these are ripe....

I am tired of fussing over this one plant! LOL

Grace

Wow!

Well, if it's any comfort, those are like no Jalapeno I've seen, either. So, perhaps, the leaves *are* the right size for whatever small pepper these turn out to be. They'll be ripe when they are fully colored :-)

Oh, and how's the Black Pearl? Mine is really happy now.

Josh