I have seen the NIP growing in Florida too. It's odd how they are in an outdoor setting, vs indoors. The needles change in orientation, upward outdoors and downward indoors. I thought mainland Florida would be too cold for them, but I saw them growing there, as well as the Florida keys. Joeinmoe, how do you coat them? You surely aren't covering NIP, planted in-ground in your yard and overwintering them each year? Are you covering them with ice or I have really misunderstood your post? I've had a bit to drink so am more dim-witted than usual. I have 2 "hardy" palms in-ground, which are covered. I have one that is potted, which is indoors. That would be great if have overwintered NIP, in-ground, joe. If you have time go look on the Tropicalesqe forum. There is a guy on there that kept a palm alive for many years in zone 4 Utah, I THINK. He finally couldn't do it anymore, it got very large. I would say 10 ft tall before he stopped covering it. His posting name was Arctictropical, I am 80% sure of that. He had covered them with a styro box and used lights wrapped around the palms. If you have some spare time look on the Tropicalesque forum. Arctictropical I am pretty sure is the name. If not it is similar. Boy, I have gone really off topic here. The posts about the overwintering of some hardy to zone 7 -8-9 may take a while to find, but the guy on here has done it in zone 4, for years. That is until his windmill palm, zone 7 hardy got too large for his enclosure. I have 2 palms in the ground, I already mentioned, but it is only covered by burlap. I may try to overwinter a palm or 2 in the winter of 2014-2015. I will have to use those that grow slow close to the house. Has anyone over-wintered any tree for several years by covering/ artificial means for more than 4 years?

Hi merrybookwyrm, I haven't seen you on here in a while. I hope you had a good garden this year. We moved here from Fort Worth in 1999 and, apart from the obvious fact that I miss being geographically closer to my family, the one thing I miss most about the DFW area is the relatively mild winters. We get a lot colder here occasionally than I expected and sometimes the cold weather hangs on for days. In 2010, we had a lot of snow at our house and once stayed below freezing for 5 consecutive days and nights. For my part of OK, that was fairly brutal winter weather, but many parts of the state were much, much colder than we were and some set all-time cold temperature records. Then, when the cold spell finally broke, we hit the 60s or 70s within 24 hours. That sort of swing from very cold to very warm winter weather reminded me very much of living in Fort Worth even though extreme cold is more rare there. When we first moved here, I felt like any winter weather colder than 20 degrees was unbearably cold. We get down into the single digits virtually every year, though not necessarily very many times in any given year, so I've had to adjust to being colder and I've had to learn to cover up or carry plants inside more here than I did down there. Most years, we have at least one or two nights where our low temperature bottoms out around 0-2 degrees. That's one or two nights too many for me. I bundle up in very warm clothing on cold mornings when I go outside to do the animal chores very early in the day because I don't like being cold, and once I am back inside the warm house, I do not want to go outside again. Dawn

I wouldn't go by the lowest temps that have been happening in recent years. I think thats where part of the problem is with the USDA zones. They only used part of their data. Although they do have a reason behind it, I still think that for the areas that do have more data they should have just used them anyway. Thats too small of data to be very accurate in my opnion and do not take into account if they have been recording a warming or cooling trend. And if thats the case are they likely to continue? And what about record cold winters and how often they will play out? Its hard to say. But what I like to do is look at as much info as I can and take the average of all data collected about each years low in an area. I tend to think it is more accurate and gives a better picture of whats going on and what to expect. The USDA is just one tool or a guide to help you out.It may have its erros. But at least it narrows down the list and keeps those that don't know so much about gardening from wasting money on things that will never have a chance.(although that doesn't stop people like me from zone pushing or trying anyway. lol)It was never meant to be set in stone. Each year is different and so is each area. Best ways to truely understand your zone/climate is trial and error. As well as looking around and see what other people are growing long term. But I am down for a better system. Anyone else? lol Unfortunatley I don't think any system will ever truely be accurate. Theres just too much to consider other than temps. Youn have soil, elevation, moisture, health of plant and list goes on. And not to mention each local micro-climate... - US_Marine

Maddie~ Forget about the rant...nhsuzaane is right..We ALL have had rants here. It helps just to type away and press "post"--very theraputic. Plus, let yourself enjoy the support. And now, I'm going to have a little rant of my own... Maddie, On the job...I have no doubt you like (maybe even love) your job, but there is way too much "job" and not enough of you. Start looking for another position. Even if the auditors find you need more manpower, the company still has to find the funds and get the authorization for it; that could take a long, long time. Right now, it's not a priority for them to help you even learn your job...why would they be motivated to get help for any time soon? Start job hunting now. And BTW, you don't have to find a job at what you went to school for---find something you LIKE---what happened to your auctioning dreams? Or real estate? When we toured that KY mansion together, you really impressed me with your vision on property renovation! You would be a gem in the customer service end of a high-end real estate biz! And you know so much about the history of KY! And---you take on WAY too much in all of these jobs you've had. Take some time and find a job that fits YOU. Enough of this Super-Woman-Set-Me-Up-For-Failure-Cr@p. You are a very,very nice person, but you are taking on too much---because you're TOO nice! You do not have to save the company---just find a job, work as hard as you can, follow your job description, and save money for pleasure vacations and retirement, and BE YOURSELF! Maddie, everyone enjoys being around you. I loved every single minute I spent with you. Your humor, your easy smile, your warmth, and your perky red-headed personality should land you whatever job you want. Please ask yourself if what you're doing is really what you want to be doing...or is it just what you trained for and you don't want to "waste" that $ and education. Perhaps this is why you choose jobs that are so difficult. Do you really want to be doing what you're doig??? People change over time and maybe you should think about your OTHER talents and find a "fun" job to do for a while-one that take advantage of your PERKY personality, your persuasive manner, and natural good looks-instead of your brain! There is nothing wrong with *NOT* having a brainy job! Look at meeeeeeeeeeeeee! I CAN FLY! (and feel like Peter Pan half the time!) Sorry this is so long, but I really think you deserve to be happier. It makes me sad to think your employer doesn't appreciate you or give you the type of working experience you deserve. If the last person was miserable and now you're miserable, buy a paper at lunch and start LOOKING for a new job...try looking in the customer service ads...or real estate! Everyone here will write you a reference, I'm sure. Love you and want you to look forward to going to work! -Beege