Pulling garlic and onions

13 years ago

Started yesterday. Looks like they will be maturing for the next 10-14 days. And the elephant could even be longer. Have pulled all of Sonoran which I planted in Jan. Just a few of the other varieties that matured faster than their siblings. So far Martins and Rosewood have been the largest bulbs. But some of my largest varieties haven't matured yet.

Still getting a few onions that have bolted. And a few that the tops have fell over and dieing. Of the ones I've pulled I don't think I'll be growing Red Candy Apple and maybe not 1015Y again. Two years in a row that I haven't got any size on Red Candy Apple Red. The jury is still out on Mars. But so far don't see a lot of size out of it either. I haven't found a red at Dixondale's that does well here since they discontinued Red Bull. I may try the California Sweet Red that Bonnies sells next spring.

Super Star shows signs of making some nice bulbs. But the tops haven't fell over yet. So thinking it will be another week or longer on them.

After my container mistake I posted about on another thread. I got to thinking about the other two plants that have stayed yellow and haven't grown well. I felt around them and they are too wet. They have been watered by the same drip hose as the rest. Guess I'll go back to watering each hole by hand. That way I can control what each plant gets. Some of the other plants will need watered before these two do. Not sure if it is the soil or something in the hose putting out more water. Another hole is also fairly wet and that plants shows some yellow also.

Typical problems you see every year. They just change. I had went to hand watering two years ago because of this same issue. But changed the type of drip hose and thought that would help. I'm using cpvc pipe with holes drilled in it on some plants so will watch how they do.

With the high heat imagine things will continue to mature fast. Jay

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Comments (12)

scarlettfourseasonsrv
13 years ago
Jay,
You amaze me! You must have a HUGE garden. And...you and Dawn are both light years ahead of me on everything, including your garlic and "onion-ese" talk.

I do have a dumb onion question that perhaps you can help me with. I planted a ton of green onion bulbs because, well, I love green onions.

I tried, believe me I tried but this year for once, I didn't get them all eaten and there still a bunch out there I have yet to pull.

Needing to make room for other things, and also get rid of a bunch of weeds, I started pulling some of them. Among these I noticed some where developing not only bulbs, but small bulblets around the main bulb, complete with little roots and small green stems.

Do you think I may have accidentally happened onto a type of multiplier onion?

What I did was separate these and potted them to see what they'd do.

I thought it was very unusual. I've been wanting to buy some multiplier onions so I could be more "sustainable" what considering the prices of onions these days.

These little bulblets I planted were more of an experiment than anything else, but would still like your opinion if you've even noticed a green onion bulb dividing like I described.

Thanks,

Barbara
marcy3459
13 years ago
Well, I certainly waited a week or so too long to harvest my French Red shallots and the yield was not great. Lots of mushy ones from being too wet and dang, that was the hottest soil I have dug in a while. Wish I had had my soil thermometer handy. Or not. I really don't think I want to know. The good news is, like Barbara, I did get some small bulbs to replenish my planting supply. Other than that, all in all, I got maybe a 1:1 yield overall. Usually it's at least 4:1. Have you guys priced shallot bulbs lately? YIKES!!

Don't wait too long to get the rest of those onions out of the ground, Jay. What a weird year. I spent early spring feeling like I was behind on planting and now everything is mid-July. What happened to growing season?

Marcy
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Shad, It is not necessarily the soil moisture that makes a difference, although it can. What really makes the difference in terms of shelf life is whether or not the garlic and onions are fully mature before they are harvested. If you harvest them before they have reached full maturity, they will not have as long of a shelf life as they would if you let them reach full maturity. No matter how I try to rationalize it in my brain....I simply cannot imagine your onions and garlic are fully mature and ready to harvest while mine have not yet reached that point. I'm so far south in Oklahoma (a few miles north of Thackerville), that I'm almost in Texas (which borders me us closely on three sides) and my climate is considerably warmer than yours, meaning that all things being equal, my crops will mature before yours do in zone 6 probably 98% of the time. Of course, it would depend on whether we're talking about short-day onions or intermediate-day onions, and whether you planted from small, hard onion sets that look like little dry bulbs, or seedling plants that are sold in bundles of 60-80 with dried roots and leaves attached. If you planted short-day onion types and you planted them at the earliest range of planting times, they might have matured by now. If so, their necks have softened and become limp and the leaves have fallen oven onto the ground, have turned yellowish-tannish-brownish and are drying. In actuality, the plants would look sort of like they they're dying. If that is the case, the onions might be ready soon to harvest and cure. With proper curing, they should have a decent shelf-life even if they come out of moist soil, assuming they do not have any diseases. However, most onions grown in our climate are not long-keepers like the ones grown further north so shelf life is not incredibly long anyway. They'll keep about 2 to 4 months in average circumstances and, in some great onion years with very careful and long curing, I can get them to store for 6 or 7 months or longer, but that is the exception and isn't necessarily common. So, are you saying that your onions and garlic have yellowing or browning, drying foliage that is falling over and they seem to be drying down and becoming ready to be pulled and cured...OR....are you saying you have a pre-set schedule in your head where the onions and garlic "must" come out now even if the foliage is mostly green and still actively growing so that the sweet potatoes can go in? The answer to that question is of the utmost importance if you want for the onions and garlic to store well at all. I have had some varieties of garlic that were planted the previous fall start showing signs of maturity in late May, but it depends on the variety and the weather and such. It more commonly starts looking like it is 'done' sometime in June and not necessarily earliest June. Of course, they are your onions and garlic and you can harvest them whenever you please, but I suspect you're going to be disappointed in their shelf life if you harvest them on your schedule and not theirs, assuming that your schedule does not match theirs. Have you grown onions and garlic before? I ask because most people, when growing them for the first time, are overly eager to harvest and harvest them too soon, most likely because they think that they can be harvested at any time. You can harvest them at any time you choose only if you're going to eat them all within a month or two, or will be preserving them by canning them, dehydrating them or freezing them shortly after harvest. If you're looking for longer dry storage, you need to harvest them when they are ready, not when you are ready to plant the succession crop. Also, a lot of folks who are new to growing onions will see that the upright green leaves are getting so tall that the leaves bend in half and the upper half is pointing down towards the ground or even touching the ground and will think that is maturity. It isn't. That's tall leaves flopping over, but it isn't maturity. When the onion necks look like they have 'broken' right down where the neck attaches to the bulb, that's a sign of approaching maturity but even after that happens, you need to wait a week or two for the foliage to dry down and change color before you pull the onions. I understand the desire to get the succession crop of sweet potatoes into the ground, but that is not necessarily in the best interest of the onions and garlic if you're looking for the maximum dry storage life possible. Dawn
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Larry, As Dorothy aaid, dusting the potatoes with sulfur might have helped, but if the soil stays too wet too long, the rot is almost inevitable. We had very heavy rainfall in January, February and March, including before, during and after potato planting time. I planted my potatoes and onions in two separate areas. The main crop went into the highest part of the big garden at the end that has a sandier soil. It didn't help. I lost almost all the potatoes planted in four 15' long rows there. I think four plants survived. Some sprouted, grew and died after the second 3" rainfall in two weeks, while others never emerged above the 2" of soil that covered them at that point. They all were chitted and were dusted with sulfur, but it didn't help. The 6" of rain in a fairly compact time frame got them. That same rain got about 75% of the onions in the raised bed directly adjacent to the potatoes. They rotted as well, and the ones that didn't rot have been bolting at the rate of 1 or 2 or 3 a week, so we've been using them as they bolt. They haven't made a very good size. The other potatoes and onions were planted in raised beds in the Peter Rabbit Garden which is on the highest point of our property up by the house and garage. This was intended as a back-up crop in case the rain kept falling and the ones in the big garden failed. I sure am glad I planted the back-up crop! The potatoes were planted 8" deep in a bed raised 16" above the grade level, and the onions were planted in a bed that is 6 or 8" above grade level. Both have performed superbly in that area and will give us a fabulous harvest. Based on this year's results, in the future I will plant potatoes and onions only in the Peter Rabbit Garden. In fact, I'm thinking of adding three more raised beds there so I can grow lots of potatoes and onions well above grade and never have to worry again about heavy rainfall at the wrong time wiping them out in the big garden. My land doesn't stay as wet as yours most years, and about half my regular garden is raised beds. This year I added 2 more raised beds to the lowest-lying area where everything has grown at grade level pretty well in all but the wettest years (2004 and 2007) and I hope to add two more raised beds to that area next year. I guess I am preparing for the inevitable extremely wet year we'll have one of these years. In January thru March, I thought maybe this would be a very wet year, but as soon as I started building those two new raised beds, the rain stopped. Now I'm wishing it would rain. As wet as your ground stays, you may have to build raised beds, even if they are just informal mounds of soil above ground with no board or stone edgings, in order to grow potatoes. Most years, onions don't rot as easily as potatoes do, at least not here, unless it rains constantly in the first 4 to 8 weeks after you plant them, which is what happened to mine here. Maybe 2013 will be a less rainy spring for you and you'll have a better potato crop. Or, you can plant them for a fall crop. My fall crop is usually smaller than my spring crop in the years when I plant taters for fall, but they're still tasty. Dawn
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Okiedawn OK Zone 7
13 years ago
Jay,

Ditto on the red onions failing to size up. I know our weather has been unfavorable for onions the last two springs, but I am just deeply disappointed in Red Candy Apple. I even gave it extra nitrogen as Bruce suggested, and they still are very small. My best producer this year was Candy, but considering most my plants rotted and died in March, that's not saying much. It is no achievement to be the best-producing onion in a year like this when they all under-achieved.

Barbara,

Do you know what variety you planted?

Marcy,

I feel exactly the same way. I was behind on planting pretty deeply into May, and then the summer heat arrived in mid-May, and I wondered if it was worth the time it was taking me to keep planting. All we can do is hope for a break in the weather, but I think the chances the weather will turn around before Sept. or Oct. are really slim. Probably slim to none.

We're on track here in Love County to have either our hottest June ever or our second hottest June ever. Many of my gardening neighbors are already asking themselves "Is this the week I turn off the hose and let the garden die?". It is a hard decision to make, but since so little rain is falling here, many people feel like they are spending so much more to water than they'll ever get, dollar-wise, from their garden. I haven't reached that point yet, but think I am getting close.

The 2.5" of rain we had last week lasted about 2 or 3 days, and then I was back to having to water to keep plants alive. I'm not even talking about keeping them looking good.....just keeping them alive.

I pulled my onions last week and it is the worst crop I've ever had---maybe 10 or 15 lbs. in onions. Luckily, I still have several pounds of frozen, chopped onions in the freezer from the bumper crop of 2008. This is my second bad onion year in a row, after having great success with them for many years.

I think 2010 is going to be a memorable garden year, but memorable for all the wrong reasons.

Dawn
quailhunter
13 years ago
I don't know what part of OK you're in, but you may try the southern belle red. I had to pull all of my onions two weeks early this year and the southern belle's had already sized up really nice. Some were big. Overall, they did WAY better than the 1015Y's.

That's what red I'll plant from now on. There was no comparison between it and the red candy I planted last year as far as size goes.
marcy3459
13 years ago
Dawn,

I am glad to hear you express the 'let the garden die' thought. It is one I didn't want to let to the forefront of my mind, but last night just before dark in the garden, I let myself acknowledge the possibility.

While digging my shallots, I saw I still have good soil moisture but know with the heat of the beautiful soil I was digging in, it's not long before the moisture will be gone. And then I walked around to see all the vegetables beginning to struggle to produce before they've really gotten started, and I start to acknowledge it may be best not to fight Mother Nature. It was a sad moment in the garden. This weather is just brutal, what else is there to say?

The only thing that I am holding out hope for is seeing a break in the long range forecast by the 4th of July or shortly after. If we don't get that, I guess I will start setting my sights on a cold-hardy garden. I don't know if planting for a second crop of summer veggies is even going to be a possibility.

Live to fight another day.

Marcy
elkwc
Original Author
13 years ago
Quailhunter,
I grew Southern Belle Red also. I've pulled about a 1/3 of them. Most are smaller than a hard ball. Many the size of a tennis ball or just larger. I checked things tonight. Of the Reds the last planting of Mars shows signs of getting some size. I can grow some long day and some short day here. But not all of either. It might be that Red Southern Belle is one that I won't be able to grow here. In the next 7-10 days should have most pulled so will have a final opinion then. Jay
elkwc
Original Author
13 years ago
Over a 1/3 pulled now. Many bulbs in the 2 1/2-3 1/2 inch range. The first elephant bulbs I pulled went around 4 1/2" and looks like after they dry they will weigh at least a pound per bulb. Huge cloves. The Red Estonian bulbs have all been around 3 1/2" with the biggest almost 3.7 inches. Going to have lots of nice bulbs. Always a few runts. A few I either didn't separate or when I planted thought the cloves might be bad. Was going to go back and pull one where two came up and didn't. I will try to get some pictures soon. Was real surprised with the first Susanville I pulled. I planted it the last week of Jan. Martin said I would be ok. Others said way late and the bulbs would be small. I just dug a couple. Going over 2 1/2 inches. So far I'm very happy with how the garlic has done. Not sure if it would of done much better if planted 2 months earlier. Red Toch, Chesnok Red, Kettle River Giant and Inchellium are all nice sized. In another week will have most if not all pulled and drying. Jay
Okiedawn OK Zone 7
13 years ago
Marcy,

The 'shutting down the watering' issue is a huge one here. Most of the gardeners I know personally here in Love County have red clay. Once it dries out, you cannot water it enough to keep everything flourishing. So, first of all, you can never let it get completely dry or future rainfall/water just rolls off the soil and doesn't soak in. Then, there's the added dilemma of having a bad grasshopper year. If you have the only garden spot for, let's say 2 or 3 miles, once all the pastures are dry and brown, the hoppers flock to a green garden. So, how much money will a person spend to create a green oasis for grasshoppers?

There have been at least 3 times I've given up and quit watering....2003 (less than 19" of rainfall that year), 2006 (18 months deep into drought and rainfall) and 2008 (think I gave up in mid-June of that year and the real local diehards gave up July 1st. It was their first time to give up and let drought have their garden in several decades of gardening).

I base the decision to cut off watering based on how much the garden is producing. If it is producing heavily, I can justify spending a lot of money to water because we're getting lots of produce. If it is not producing heavily, I can't justify it. And, yes, saying "I'm done and I'm not going to water anymore" just kills me. It really does.

This year, we have had adequate rainfall for the landscape. So, the only watering I really have to do is for the veggie garden and Maddie's Peter Rabbit garden. Can't let the heat take Peter's plants!) Based on that, I think I can justify watering through at least early July. If we go 3 or 4 weeks without rain, though, I'll have to stop watering the veggie garden and start watering the landscape area around the house and the detached barn/garage to keep the clay soil from shifting/cracking too much and damaging the house's foundation. In the years I had to stop watering the veggie garden, that's why I did it....to redirect the water to the foundation area.

In the years I quit watering, we were in a prolonged drought where there was not good deep soil moisture. Due to last year's near-record 50-something inches of rain here, we still have good deep soil moisture and that makes all the difference. So, I think I can keep watering another couple of weeks before I have to ask 'should I keep on watering'?

Another factor in our favor is that it is expected to be a very, very active tropical storm/hurrican season. That gives us a somewhat higher than average chance of having rain pushed up our way by storms off the Texas/Louisiana coast. I can keep watering if I have hope rain may be coming. In those hot, dry summers when it seems rain isn't going to fall again until fall, there's a point where a huge water bill arrives, and I look at it and gasp, and say "OK, I'm done".

Dawn
scarlettfourseasonsrv
13 years ago
Dawn,
Unfortunately no, I don't know the variety I planted that produced the little bulblets. It was a bag I grabbed at the tail end of the window of time for green onion planting when the stores were running out and I was afraid I didn't have enough to satisfy my lust for green onions. All I know is that I'm saving and replanting the one's that seem to be exhibiting this characteristic. Still plan on buying some multipliers in order to be more sustainable on my limited income so I don't have to continually be buying new stock. The Egyptians are ok, but just don't produce enough to meet my needs. I do love varieties, but just can't do that each year due to weather and other issues. Loved the year I planted Cipolinni onions, (sp). What a treat.

I'm so sorry about your lack of rain thus far. We can only hope you don't have to shut down the garden for lack of rain and high water bills. I sometimes feel I'm going to have to do that with the electric bill in the summer. I do wish I had the space for a freezer, but there again...it adds to the overall electric bills. The small town where I live sets their own prices outside the control of the Corporation Commission. Don't know how they are able to do that but they do, and invariably higher seems like than Verdigris Valley just across Hwy 75.

Grasshoppers galore, yes! I don't know whether it will do any good or not, but I sprayed a lot of plants with Neem Oil yesterday on an outside chance they'd leave those alone.

No need to take the time to reply to this on the onion question. They either multiply or they don't. I just thought it was odd for an onion, not shallots, or garlic.

Barbara
elkwc
Original Author
13 years ago
I'll post a link to my photo bucket site where I added some pictures of my garlic. I have dug about half of it. So may add some more pictures later. This will give an idea of what I have dug so far. Took the pictures before I hung it up under the carport roof to dry. Jay

Here is a link that might be useful: 2010 Garlic
Okiedawn OK Zone 7
13 years ago
Nice garlic, Jay. I was in Central Market today and they had various kinds, but I think you have more than they do. : )
elkwc
Original Author
13 years ago
Dawn thanks. I think I ended up with 23 varieties this year. Most have done well. Very pleased with the results. I pulled around 30 Estonian Red bulbs that I think most will dry out close to 8 oz. Will know more in 7-10 days. I plan on planting more of certain varieties and cutting back on total number of varieties. I hope it goes better than it has when I've tried it with tomatoes. Jay

Pulling garlic and onions

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