well, edbtz, welcome to the wonderful world of Zone Denial.

There are no palms that would live in our area without protection. I live in Hamilton and we are a good zone+ (in my area) than Toronto. Even with that, the palms we have are well protected during the winter.

To be successful, you'll need either a small portable greenhouse (like a hoop house) that is easy to put and take down.

Or, if a small palm, you could build a small mini-greenhouse for the winter. You would have to insulate it and provide some sort of heat source. There's no "non-heat" protection that will work well for us here in our climate.

Not only are we zones 5b (Toronto) and 6b (almost 7) in Hamilton, but in those zones, we have way too many days of sub-zero temps.... long periods of super cold.

That being said, I would highly recommend that rather than planting any palm, you keep a palm in its pot. In actual fact, the palm will perform better than planting it in our colder ground here.

I do have 2 in the ground and they have done well over the winter. However, they would have done better in pots and in the house or our little greenhouse for the winter.

Mind you, we do have 4 other palms planted in the ground, but we errect the greenhouse over them for the winter. They are doing amazingly well.

Palms of choice for here:

- Trachycarpus Fortunei (can take quite cold once established, but still need protection here).

- Washingtonia Filiferia or Robusta, but again, needs lots of protection. Plus, this one grows very fast, maybe too fast. After a few short years, you'd either have to super-size your protection structure or sell the palm. We have 2 (and a bunch of seedlings). The 2 have more than double their size in 2 years. That's fast.

Here's some pix of what you can do in Ontario if you are willing to work:

TRACHY INSIDE PROTECTION
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Same Trachy during winter. Heat and light to monitor on/off cycles of thermostat

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Other Palms structure
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Washingtonia - 1 of 2
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Chinese Fan Palms
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Washingtonia in background, Trachycarpus in foreground
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Did I mention, lots of work?? :)p

Hey edbtz! Thats what I'm trying to do right now, I'm in Mississauga. If your in North York, or anywhere in the northern GTA, you might be zone 5b, other than that...Toronto's mainly 6a and 6b.

Anyways, you could try Needle palm without a problem...you could also try Sabal Minor. If your willing to give protection, windmill palm would be a good idea as well.

Have you been to this board?

Check it out!

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardy palm & subtropical board

im new to the boards and im just wondering how you protected your chinese fan palm during the winter. I just recently bought one thats why.

Hockeyplayer:

Look at my 3rd picture from the top, entitled, "Other Palms Structure."

The lower, square one, more in the foreground, without the window, is the protection for the Chinese Fan Palm.

The structure was built, easily, using 1X2 wood (you know, those thin ones from home depot that are usuall selling for around $1 or less.

This structure was insulated on the back and right side (away from sun side) with 1.5" sterafoam insulation plus a couple of layers of bubblewrap. The rest, the top, sun side front, were insulated also with several layers of bubblewrap (either 2 or 3 layers, I forget now).

For a heat source, I used a cheap blowdryer from Walmart. From Home Depot, I bought a "Baseboard" type thermostat, an outlet box and outlet.

Using 14Gage house wire and a heavy duty, 3-pronged plug, I basically made what would kind of be an extention cable, using the outlet box and thermostat. This allowed the blowdryer to cycle just like a house furnace.

For those who are not familiar with basic wiring, this may sound very difficult. However, for those with some familiarity with hooking up wires and switches, it's very easy. Connecting the thermostat is exactly the same as hooking up a switch.

Anyway, this worked wonderfully for the entire winter. The palm did super well.

THE ONLY PROBLEM!!!! was in the spring, when the sun started to get hot. The inside temps hit 42C or 43C, so the palm got about 30% to 40% leaf burn. I did try to quickly come up with some sort of automatic cooling system, but that didn't work out too well.

The upside is, that after I cut all the burnt fronds off, the palm, although lots of small new fronds, looks so good now.

But, due to the problems with the spring thing, I'll be digging up this palm and potting it for the winter.

In 1st and 2nd pix, is the Trachycarpus protection. This one was much easier in the spring since I was able to just leave the top opened. Due to the Trachy's hardiness, I was able to completely remove the protection at the beginning of March. That little guy is in a growing spurt now with 1 completely opened new frond this spring and 2 or 3 more spears.

Now that I've learned more about these palms and how they behave when potted, I'd highly suggest that you leave your palms in their pots (don't repot as this will stunt their growth and they may sulk for a while). This way, you can take them in the house in the late fall.

The method to care for them in the house would be to keep them in an area with good light and high humidity. Also, I would recommend placing the pot, raised up high, inside of a pail or some other plastic that can hold water. This way, every couple of weeks, you can give the plant a good deep watering. This should keep it from drying up the fronds.

Hope that helps you.

Check out HardiestPalms.com. They list 8 very cold hardy palms right there on their front page including temps they can withstand.

-Todd

Here is a link that might be useful: Hardiest Palms Link

Here's the actual list of palms with the temps they are hardy to:

Here is a link that might be useful: Cold Hardy Palm List (With Temps)

It's good to see that this site is updated. However, the LIST area crashes my browswer!!! LOL

Sumfin not good der for diz version of IE6.

Just checked it on another machine with XP on it. Same thing! Crashes IE when entering the List area.

It might be an ActiveX thing, but I don't have time to troubleshoot it right now. :(

Strange... I tried it again from here and it works fine.... and this is with a crappy work computer with windows 98 on it. Anyways... you can reach that same list by going to the main link I originally posted then click on Cold Hardy Palm List on the left.

thanks for all the great info blondboy47. How fast does your chinese fan palm grow during the summer on average. Also Where did you get Washingtonia and Trachy

Well, even at home that link crashed IE 6. Microsoft is aware of this problem but maintains that it's been fixed in 5.5!!!! Like the little girls said, "they're baaaaaack!" LOL

The problem file, for those who notice the same issue, is mshtml.dll.

Anyway, hockeyplayer. The Chinese Fan palm is VERY slow growing. They have put on several new fronds already, but they are rather smallish and the stems are not very long. But no matter, they are a very pretty palm.

As for the Washies and Trachies, I bought them 2 years ago at Humber Nurseries north of Toronto. However, they completely stopped carrying them. From what I've heard, it was because some people bought them and read the minimum temps that they can take and assumed that this meant that they could plant them outside without a problem (or protection). Due to their return policy and what might be considered misleading info, they had to refund for the dead palms. So, no more.

As to where to find more here in Ontario, I just don't know. I wish that I did, because I so badly want to get a Trachycarpus Fortunei that has at least 5 foot of trunk. But no way I guess.

thanks for all the information blondboy47

Blondboy, I was at Humber nurseries about a month ago and they had palms. They had Saw Palmetto, Sabal Minor, and I believe they had Needle palms as well. There were signs on them though saying no guarentee over winter.

where is Humber nurseries

Rickey! I was shocked to hear that Humber was again carrying cold hardies. Soooooooo, I called them this morning. To my surprise, those palms are no longer in "Tropicals", but are in "Perenials". LOL

I was informed that they only have 4 Sables ($142.99 each) and 1 Saw Palmetto ($108.99) left. The are also only around 1 foot tall. No more Needle palms and no more orders until next season.

However, she did give me the phone number of someone (who i think is someone from this forum as well) in the Niagara area (she confirmed that he gave permission). She states that he may have info on where to get a real T. Fortunei.

I suspect it's the same person who was supposed to get some of those palms last winter/spring and contact me, but never did. Hmmmmm must look up that email! LOL

If that person recognizes themselves in this post, (J.G.) please send me an email. We gotta talk! LOL ;)

Hockeyplayer, here's their website:
http://www.gardencentre.com/

They are at the very end of Hwy 27 at Hwy 7 area. Here's the full info:
Humber Nurseries Ltd. 8386 Hwy. 50 R.R. 8 Brampton, Ontario Tel: (905) 794-0555 Toronto line: 416) 798-8733

Next season? When do they bring in hardy palms? I thought they were always in the perrenials area...Next to the Musa Basjoos and Cacti.

LOL not when I bought mine. They were in Tropicals. I also find it odd that they would not bring more in now, but then, I guess they are not fast sellers at those prices.
Those prices above are for about 1 foot of plant!

We do so pay a lot extra in this country. ):/

I know huh??? It's rediculous I think. I think I may try Botanical treasures online, they have CHEAP plants, I've heard there not to reliable, but a buddy bought a Washingtonia Filifera (sp?) for $14.00 USD plus shipping, and it's very healthy, and at that price, I'll say it's worth the risk! LOL! I'll have to shoot you an e-mail, I wouldn't mind checking out this "other" place that has hardy subtropicals...

Lemme correct myself...

The washy was $6.00 USD and $8.00 shipping = Total $14.00 INCLUDING shipping.

Canadian Source for hardy palms

I bought a small Washington Robusta by mail order from Tropic to Tropic plants in Delta, BC. It has grown quickly in a pot. I bring it in for the winter. They have many types of palms This nursery is a great source for other plants for a tropicalesque garden

For those of use that live in Southern Ontario, Colassanti's in Leamington is an excellent source for palms. I have purchased a number of palms from there including Washington Robusta, Adonidia Palm, Queen Palm and a spindle palm. They are also very reasonably priced (e.g. $35 for a large 5 foot Robusta) and have many other plants including a little zoo for the kids. I have not really seen cold hardy species there, however.

Would post a complete address for them? I've tried to find them and cannot.

This is the company that was supposed to provide a Trachycarpus Fortunei this spring for me, via Home Depot in Ancaster, but never came through. Lots of passing the buck.

Geeze! $35 for a 5 foot Robusta? LOL I guess that I'm lucky then. I just sold a 2 foot Robusta seedling for $40.

I'd sure like SOMEONE IN ONTARIO to get some Trachy's, about 5' of trunk.... I guess I'll wait so long that ours will just grow to that hieght. );)p

here is the info.

Mailing Address - P.O Box 40, Ruthven, Ontario N0P 2G0
Web Address - www.colasanti.com

I've believe I found the link to Colasanti Tropical garden. They are actually located in Ruthven Ontario which is located northwest of Leamington. Their address is 1550 3 Road, Ruthven, ON N0P2G0. Here's the link to their website:
http://www.colasanti.com

Here is a link that might be useful: Colasanti Tropical Gardens

Hey Everyone

As you guys can see I live in Ottawa, and we are a 5a and after doing lots of research, I have found lots of hardy palms/tropicals that can survive in a zone5 with winter protection of course. Here are some that I have found and trying as we speak. 1.trachycarpus fortunie 2.sabal minor 3. livistona chinensis (as a die-back) 4.yucca rostrata 5. musa basjoo. Here are some websites that helped me with my research.
1.www.hardiestpalms.com
2.hometown.aol.com/fitzroya/myhomepage/cooking.html (zone5b)
3.http://www.polarpalm.net/
Plus try to find the book called "Palms won't grow here and other myths". Very good read, and talks about hardy palms for zone 5/6

Adam

Hi Adam,

Please send us some pictures of your plants.

Thanks
Phil

Nice to read some Canadian content!! I e-mailed Colasantis before x-mas asking for triangle palms and a king palm. She told me she will contact me in a week or two and she will get me some prices as they do special orders!! I live north of Mississauga and agree with Blondboy. Unless you are willing to build the CN tower all over again not much will keep over Winter outdoors without ALLOT of preperation. The Washingtons grow upto 70 feet. My ceiling is a little to low to bring in for the winter!

Protempsfish,

I have recently seen some small triangle palms in Home Depots in the London area for $9.99. Sometimes in spring they carry larger ones.

THanks edbtz! I have scoured the Home Depots and all they seem to have are Majesty Palms and the other typical houseplant palms. Have you ever seen a trachy or any other ones? I am going to Florida in Feb and hopefully pick up a palm or two that won't cost me my house.

Hi Protempfish,

Let us know if you have any issues bringing them over the border?

BTW, I have never seen any Trachys at Home Depot in Ontario. If you want Trachys you will likely have to go Broadway Nursery in St. Catherines this Spring. Last year they brought lots of trachys and needles.

Phil

Thanks Phil.
As luck would have it, I do frequent St Catherines as my bro in law lives there. I know my wife will be thrilled to go to the nursery to spend money on palm trees :) I have also started some palm seeds- trachy's, a california x washington hybrid and a date palm that may reach 3 feet by the time I am ready to retire (in 35 years)This is my first attempt but have followed all the steps to a tee. We will see how it goes!!

Protempsfish, I have also occassionally seen fishtail, bottle, and adonidia palms at Home Depot (in addition to the common majesty, areca, and cat palms they have). Teh one beside my house has a fishtails and adonidia plams, plus small triangle palms last time I was there not too long ago. If you want a t. fortunei, work close to a greenhouse in london that sells them for $20 if you are interested. I am in Toronto every weekend and could pick up one for you if yout wanted. With pot they are about 2 feet tall.

Thanks edbtz! Feel free to e-mail me in a couple of weeks as I want to see how the seedlings do! If most of them sprout, I will give you some.

That sounds great Protemspfish. If you have any seeds left over I would be willing to trade.

Edbtz, I should have a few carpentaria seeds as well as robellini seeds. I will check to see if I have any left over washington/california hybrid palm seeds as those to me are the most interesting (and according to package) one of the fastest growing palms. I did order some trachy seeds that haven't arrived yet but I suppose I will just go out and buy one and keep seeds for trades/gifts :)

Protemsfish, i would be interested in washington and carpentaria seeds if you have any available. I have pheonix dactylifera, cat palm, and moso bamboo seeds. Or if you would like, i can trade you a small triangle palm for some seeds. I am pretty open, but would love to try washingon from seed, as I have a 5 foot one right now and it is my favourite.

I forgot, I also have some heliconia seeds.

When I get home today, I will see what ones I have left. A trade for a triange sounds good to me! I am fairly certain I will have a few washinton/california hybrid seeds left over. The only other ones I may have are canary island date palm seeds, robellini, carpentaria, and some time next week some trachy seeds.

Hey everyone, if anyone is still checking this form page out, I now have growing and surviving though our 5a winters, needle palm, sabal minor, livistonia chinesis, canna lilies, bamboo, cactus, yucca's and soon this spring, nannorrhops ritchiana. Check out iowapalms, its very cool. For my pictures, check out www.webshots.com type in Ottawa_hardy_tropicals

Hi, Adam,
I'm amazed of your fotos of Ottawa hardy tropicals, I've seen them before and now got to know that ottawa basjoo is the same person! Greatest respect!
I'm from Finland and dream to grow palms outside. The southern part of country belongs to zone 5 and the microclimate of the yard is very convenient. Now some small windmill palms, needle palm and dwarf palmetto as M bazjoo are waiting for May to be planted outside. Hope and beleive in success, the fotos will come later (in the case ov victory ;) ).
Antti

Zone 6b southern Ontario. Just to let my local Canadians know XLB Palms is near Hamilton and Cambridge. He carries a lot of tropicals, check his Web page. I box my Chinese fan palm in with 2 inch of insulation, a thermocube, and C9 Christmas lights for heat. The temperature has not dropped below 3c and no higher than 10c all winter so far. I have a wireless Guage in the box that shows the highs and low Temp's. Check out Tropical Plant Zone Pushers webpage. My Banana Bajoo is out with no heat and will survive, 3 inches of mulch, with a garbage bucket filled with leaves over top of it. It is good to -26c.