@JMJ 4Life Really sorry to learn about your tree. I assume some part of the root mass is fused, so the soil/root mass remains intact like so: If the answer is yes, unpot the plant and set the root/soil mass on a stack of newspapers, rags, old towels, dry sponges - something that will PULL excess water from the soil. Allow it to rest on the wicking material for an hour or two before returning it to the pot it fits. Use a wooden "tell" to "tell" you when it's time to water, because with no water loss from foliage, the plant will require very little water. Using a 'tell' Over-watering saps vitality and is one of the most common plant assassins, so learning to avoid it is worth the small effort. Plants make and store their own energy source – photosynthate - (sugar/glucose). Functioning roots need energy to drive their metabolic processes, and in order to get it, they use oxygen to burn (oxidize) their food. From this, we can see that terrestrial plants need plenty of air (oxygen) in the soil to drive root function. Many off-the-shelf soils hold too much water and not enough air to support the kind of root health most growers would like to see; and, a healthy root system is a prerequisite to a healthy plant. Watering in small sips in order to avoid over-watering leads to a residual build-up of dissolved solids (salts) in the soil from tapwater and fertilizer solutions - which limits a plant's ability to absorb water – so watering in sips simply moves us to the other horn of a dilemma and creates another problem that requires resolution. Better, would be to simply adopt a soil that drains well enough to allow watering to beyond the saturation point, so we're flushing the soil of accumulating dissolved solids whenever we water; this, w/o the plant being forced to pay a tax in the form of reduced vitality, due to prolong periods of soil saturation. Sometimes, though, that's not a course we can immediately steer, which makes controlling how often we water a very important factor. In many cases, we can judge whether or not a planting needs watering by hefting the pot. This is especially true if the pot is made from light material, like plastic, but doesn't work (as) well when the pot is made from heavier material, like clay, or when the size/weight of the pot precludes grabbing it with one hand to judge its weight and gauge the need for water. Fingers stuck an inch or two into the soil work ok for shallow pots, but not for deep pots. Deep pots might have 3 or more inches of soil that feels totally dry, while the lower several inches of the soil is 100% saturated. Obviously, the lack of oxygen in the root zone situation can wreak havoc with root health and cause the loss of a very notable measure of your plant's potential. Inexpensive watering meters don't even measure moisture levels, they measure electrical conductivity. Clean the tip and insert it into a cup of distilled water and witness the fact it reads 'DRY'. One of the most reliable methods of checking a planting's need for water is using a 'tell' (more reliable than a 'moisture meter'. You can use a bamboo skewer in a pinch, but a wooden dowel rod of about 5/16” (75-85mm) works better. They usually come 48” (120cm) long and can usually be cut in half or in several pieces, depending on how deep your pots are. Sharpen both ends of each tell in a pencil sharpener and slightly blunt the tip so it's about the diameter of the head on a straight pin. Push the wooden tell deep into the soil. Don't worry, it won't harm the root system. If the plant is quite root-bound, you might need to try several places until you find one where you can push it all the way to the pot's bottom. Leave it a few seconds, then withdraw it and inspect the tip for moisture. For most plantings, withhold water until the tell's tip comes out nearly dry. If you see signs of wilting, adjust the interval between waterings so drought stress isn't a recurring issue. Al

Buford: Yes, that is what my rose looks like. Yellow leaves, green leaves, and new red stems and growth. It's only the Sombreuil though. The hybrid tea, grandiflora, Darlow's Enigma, and Rhode Island Red (Fields of the Woods, Kocher Red?) are as usual. Michaelg, I looked closer this am and found that the leaves do have green veins on many of them. So is it an iron deficiency? Cemeteryrose, I did soak the roses with a Miracle Gro solution this am (contains 0.10 chelated iron) and will see what happens (NPK 15-30-15). I was hoping this would not get complicated, as I like to keep things real simple, but I suppose I have to look into the compost situation now. My mix, if anything is more green than brown (lots of coffee grounds and garden and kitchen greens). Usually wet and slightly smelly while it 'cooks', and that's when I add paper or leaves that I keep in a bag adjacent to the bin. But the finished product was dry, crumbly, delicious black and odor free. It was from a 2 year old batch.

Update!!!! The leaves on my tree have stopped falling!! I found out that someone kept turning the lights off in my room while I was at work the whole time. Since I put an end to that, and since the lights have been onlonger now, not only have I stopped loosing leaves, but my Gardenia has greened up and opened a new SWEET smeling flower, and my trees have new flush with flower buds, especially my grapefruit tree now. Someone on one of my posts really helped me with understanding when to use lights and at what temps in my room where as not when not to use them also. I decided to use them since I love to see healthy growth all winter. I am so happy we have each other to see us suceed. We will definately need each other through the winter. Now I understang cold enviroment verses less light, and warm enviroment verses more light. Since my sun room gets warm and humid by day, and never gets cold at night, I keep my lights on for more than 8 hours a day plus my plants are in south facing windows. I would say while we figure out what conditions we set for our trees, and then establish a stable enviroment, it is going to be common for us to loose leaves until our trees are totally comfortable. I guess I found that point. I hope you all do to. For some reason they respond alot better when we put them outside as to bringing them inside. I grow plumerias, and I am so glad that the leaves on my citrus don't fall off like they do on my plumies because of shorter days, or my trees would be bald. So it is no suprise that our trees don't suffer in some small way. Don't it make you wish you live in a warm climate!lol Don't always assume it is just overwatering, for I have mine growing in soil which doesn't allow room for that. In fact my soil dries out almost to fast. But soil temperature in the pot, temps in a room,roots being to cold while the top part of plant is strssed from to much light for the roots to cool leaves off so they won't overwork and then fall, how much light we provide, adjusting to a new enviroment,a different feed program, and even insects can all play a role in leaf drop. But once you make a check list of all, and set things straight, our trees reward us with that extra step we take to love them. I would have to say they are like people too, the only difference is, is that they can't talk to us and tell us what makes them uncomfortable, so we have to be in tune with them. This can be a rewarding challenge. But truly a challenge, if you havn't lost your leaves by the time you figure it out!!lol I hope everyone here has a sucessful growing winter season, and P.S, don't forget to watch for pests, and clean your trees as often as you can, especially when it gets warm enough to spray them outside with a good stream of water. Also, Toni's natural pestcide really does work!! Mike

Tolip and Mike, According to the label on the KeRex, it "prevents metallic iron from combining with other compounds in the soil, and allows it to remain free and available to the plant." It is suitable for alkaline soils that we have here. Biology and chemistry are the weakest areas of my academic background; therefore I have no idea how accurate and truthful the label claims. In addition, since the plants are in potting soils instead of alkaline soils, I am not sure how KeRex would help. But heck, l feed the plants with it nonetheless. Worst of worst, the plants would die; yet it is not the end of the world. Growing Michelia Alba in low desert is challenging to say the least. We have all the âÂÂshould not haveâ in our environment. I have had these three plants for 3 years, and have been keeping them indoor during cold winter and on the back yard patio the rest of the year. They receive morning sun until noon, then are in the shade of our house. Yesterday I moved them onto the grass where they would receive filtered sunlight until noon, and then under the shade of big trees. Without saucers, the water would flow freely to the grass area. Now, our temperature is 90s in the day and 60s during the night. I will wait for a couple of weeks before giving them light dose of miracle grow. I also grow Grand Dukes and Plumerias, they are so easy to take care. In comparison, tendering Michelia Alba is such a pain, but the intoxicate fragrance from the blooms is 2nd to none, it makes every effort worthwhile. I will follow up after a few weeks. Thank you again.