Glenda,

Well, it isn't controversial to me. Been there. Done that.

I believe they are out there, and you know why.

I hope he is careful. I am glad the one he saw acted appropriately and made that slight turn away from him. Ones that act 'normally' don't bother me as much as the ones that act in a way that generally defies logic, like my garden visitors last year.

You need to be careful like I learned to do last year and carry a gun with you when you're outside.

I find the timing interesting. It is about the same point in the summer that I had my first encounter last year.

Be careful! After you're looking one in the eyes it is too late to wish you'd carried a gun or a big metal fence post outdoors with you to the garden.

Dawn

Missouri has an agressive program to investigate reports. You can call them and let them know what was seen.

I have seen images taken by friends of mine (one with a phD by the way) that had been circulated by about a dozen people already and they all were saying it was a mountain lion that lived in our area. The image clearly was a bobcat. You just can't ever take people's word about something they have seen, especially when physical evidence is so easily found for a species like mountain lions.

I'm going to post a link to one that passed through western KS and through the county I live in and according to local sources within a few miles of the station I'm in charge of in SE CO. At the time they wouldn't confirm any thing. And tried to cast doubt about the tracks and scat found. Now they are admitting it was a lion. Like the article said the KWPD didn't know the location of the lion while he was in KS but they knew he was headed this way. But when contacted about possible sightings and also about skat, tracks and possible kills they didn't act they believed it or had any clue. I understand in addition to the animals listed he feasted on some chickens while in our area. And like stated rested close to an inhabited house. Which still seems odd from what I was taught about them in NM. He crossed the SE edge of CO and then into the OK Panhandle in the Keyes area I understand and then down into the TX Panhandle then into NM. So on the move for sure. These denials when they know one is possibly in the area is what makes it so hard for a lot of us to believe anything they say. Jay

Here is a link that might be useful: Mountain lion in Western KS

I'm going to post a link to an article about a Black Bear that has been spotted in this area for several years. They mention Stevens county which is just east of us. He has been spotted in Morton County where I live several times in the last month. So far I haven't seen him this year but some coworkers have. We seem to be getting more variety of wild life here every year. Jay

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Bear SW KS

Jay, guess what? We lost another calf yesterday! This one was a little large for a coyote unless they were acting in a pack like wolves.

DH took pictures. This is getting serious...2 now. I keep thinking if a cat is where it isn't supposed to be and is spotted at dusk when they say people rarely spot them....then maybe the kill won't quite be like all the books and experts say. All I know is we have lived here since 1976 and have never lost a calf to a predator before! The coincidence of the neighbor spotting a mountain lion leading away from our farm just seems a little too much.

We are wondering about llamas or donkeys for protection?

I will put a link to the photos if anyone wants to check out the methodology. There was no long rips like a dog. The hind leg was drug a long distance away....anyway we
spotted our dog with it when DH went to drag it away from the watering hole.

Here is a link that might be useful: Calf No. 2

I forgot to also say that we lost our indoor/outdoor cat a couple of weeks ago. DH found her in the fence row pretty close to the house. There was just enough fur left and her head for him to know it was Willie. That is also a first.

I was going to post links to the cat Jay referenced, and I see he beat me to it again.

That cat traveled from north central Colorado in a big loop through the west part of Kansas and into New Mexico through the Oklahoma panhandle. that's very typical of the cats that are found in the plains. They are young males wondering and looking for a home range with females and they travel amazing distances. Outside of the established population at the end of the Oklahoma panhandle, we likely also have a handful of lonely males traveling through the main part of the state at any given time, so occasionally there is a legit sighting. Females with kittens, or black ones? Not so legit.

Anything is possible with that kill, but it doesn't have the signs of a cat having done it.

Scott, I just talked with our local MDC agent (one of them) and she says she would rather think it is the local bobcat. I do know the neighbor who saw the bobcat near us said it was huge! It was her son that swears he saw the mountain lion. I am sending my pictures to them today and she will, in turn, show it to the biologist for him to take a look at. Neither time was the kill covered with brush. I don't know how bobcats do their kill. Now I am researching bobcats and guard animals!

Never a dull moment on the farm!!!!

Glenda,
While out on a drive in the country in NE OK one afternoon several months ago, my son and I saw a huge Bobcat running across the road ahead of us chasing a herd of deer. We both remarked how large and powerful he was. And, obviously very sure of himself. There is no shortage of rabbits in this area.

I'm pretty sure a Bobcat the size of the one we saw could take down a calf without too much trouble.

I'm so sorry for the loss of the calves, as well as your cat. That shouldn't be happening :(

Barbara

I'm jealous of you guys. I am out in the woods every week for the last 9 years and I have only seen 5 bobcats total, and none of them have been large. My neighbor about half a mile from here took this picture in his front yard last year, though.

Scott,
You would enjoy the drive to my station and back everyday. Not hardly a day I don't see wildlife. From wild turkey, deer, antelope, prairie chicken to bobcats. We had one set up residence around area with two old farmsteads last year. Two miles from my station and an area I drive by going and coming. There has always been a very large pheasant population in that area. He basically wiped it out. I would guess him in the 45-50 lb range. I did a search and saw where it said they can reach up to 70 lbs. Don't think he was near that but a large nice bobcat. Still not nearly as large as a nice lion. Size wise a big difference. Anyway here. I've been told I should carry a camera and take pictures. I just never have. I do stop at times and watch the wild life. Jay

Our neighbor to the immediate west has lost over 50 chickens over the last year....his place is where the other neighbor saw the bobcat crossing at the creek.

Glenda,

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your animals, especially Willie the house cat. We have a house cat named Willie too, and she was named after Willie Nelson.

When we had our house built in 1998, the guys who did the foundation work, who were from Oregon, said that they saw bobcats here on our property that were so big that they thought they were mountain lions. I've never seen a huge bobcat but have seen some medium-sized ones and a lot of smallish ones. One of our neighbors has a very large one living on his property and it has atypical coloring.

Since your calves aren't being cached/buried in brush, I'd tend to think it isn't a mountain lion and likely is a bobcat, but don't forget that coyotes and feral dogs kill calves (and cats) too.

We've only lost 1 chicken this year, and I think a fox got it, but you know what it was like around here last year.

Our friends who live a couple of miles north of us have two Great Pyrenees dogs that protect their goats, and those dogs are fiercely protective. However, the mama cats and kittens who live in the barn with the goats have disappeared all year long, so whatever is getting them is able to get by the Great Pyrenees. When they got down to only 1 remaining barn kitten (out of about 20), they brought it inside and turned it into a house cat. I can't imagine what would be able to sneak into the barn and take out that many cats week in and week out without the dogs raising a ruckus.

Lots of people here have donkeys as herd guardians, and those donkeys are fierce!

Dawn

In my opinion Mountain Lions are not uncommon in Oklahoma. They are a very secretive animal that lives primarily off deer kills. The deep population is large and growing.Just in my own family, my son saw one about five miles north of Luther and seven miles east about 10 years ago. My daughter-in-law saw one 15 miles west of Kingfisher and 5 miles north. A friend saw one 20 miles east and north of Ardmore just recently. All this suggests to me that they are not as uncommon as reported by the Oklahoma Wildlife Dept.

docjoc, tens of thousands of trail cameras across the state would suggest there is no resident population at all, since only two cameras have seen them. The exception is the resident population at the tip of the panhandle where there have been many pictures taken, cats killed, etc.

Thousands of people east of the Mississippi report seeing them every year also, yet they do not exist there at all(except the Florida population) except for a handful that escape captivity or are released. Still, anything is possible, just extremely unlikely base on evidence.

We have debated this for the last year or two here, and you can find some long threads about it if you search for them.

Docjoc,

I was visited by two separate mountain lions last year...one at the west end of my garden and one at the east. Many other neighbors saw them, and over 100 animals (small dogs, cats, guineas, chickens and calves and from a location a few miles south, three goats) disappeared from homes along our road in about a 5 or 6 month period. So, I don't just believe they are here, I know they are here.

We already knew they were here, having seen them and heard them in the past. It probably will always be a controversial topic, but once you've seen them, you know what you're seeing.

I have pretty much gotten over having them here and have moved on and returned to gardening as usual (meaning I no longer carry a gun to the garden with me), but I have neighbors both north and south of me who tell me that I need to be more careful....and imply someone has been seeing them this year. I just don't even want to think about that. Having them around ruint my gardening year last year and I do not want to go through that again.

Dawn

Well, our local MDC agent called, Mark Creed. He was extremely nice and had looked at the pictures I had posted. He says he is not one to say there are no mountain lions in our area but he has never seen actual proof or pictures that were verified. I liked that he didn't call our neighbors crazy or liars.....

He did say bobcats can get to 70 lbs and can easily take down a calf. His first thought was bobcat, coyotes, and a distant possibility of dogs which I rule out. He didn't absolutely rule out a mountain lion but I could tell was doubtful. He suggested to try to get pictures of surrounding area and tracks. We are so darned dry right now, tracks would be difficult to spot. He said favorite feed of lions is deer.....we have a lot of them too. In fact, DH saw several this morning.

I am trying to decide on a camera and will order one shortly.

He did tell us not to hesitate to shoot it....just call them when and if we do.

I just want it to stop!

Still no call from the livestock specialist....no surprise there.

You can get good trail cameras for under $100 dollars these days and they will really help tell you what is coming around your place at any time of day.

Missouri has had a decent number of lion confirmations in the last decade, even more than Oklahoma - maybe because have the large river coming from their home territory to you and going near large population centers. More and more of them are showing up each year, but there has never been any evidence of resident populations or reproduction away from their established home ranges west of us.