Barbara,

Heirloom pole beans are individuals and some produce more than others and some produce for a longer period of time than others, so there's no easy cut-and-dried answer. Do you have a specific bean variety or varieties you're wondering about?

Dawn

Dawn..I wish I could answer that specifically but I can't since I planted an assortment of the heirloom beans from Sustainable Mountain Agriculture Center. Most are either greasy beans, cut shorts or a combination of the two.

All I was hoping for was a ballpark figure to help me do some figuring on potential yields, and also a general time frame on how long they would keep producing...give or take.

Pole beans are a kind of a first for me.

Barbara

New to pole beans?? It sounds like you planted enough to become a convert. LOL They will most likely produce until frost but their quality will decrease a little as they get near that time of year.

I always plant pole beans because I can stand up to pick them and because they keep producing. This year I planted a row of bush beans also because they should start producing earlier.

As for production....I get what I get. It varies with the variety and also with the weather. Either way you will probably get tired of picking if you planted very many.

They'll produce until frost but sometimes some of them don't start producing very early. I plant bush beans (5 succession plantings) to carry us through the early part of the season until the pole beans begin producing. I like bush beans because they're so speedy and pole beans because they produce so abundantly most years, and you don't have to bend over to pick them.

George can probably tell you how many 5-gallon buckets of beans he gets when he picks from his pole beans but I don't grow many greasy beans or many cutshorts so I can't and I'm not sure if they produce at the same rate as standard pole beans that aren't cutshorts or greasies. Some runner beans are daylength-sensitive so they tend to start producing only after the daylength reaches the right amount of hours, but I don't know if you have any runner beans. I can tell you that if our temperatures aren't insanely high, we'll get all the pole beans we can eat (and we love beans) and all I can freeze until I finally just get tired and stop picking them most years. Once I have a year's worth of frozen beans, it is hard to get motivated to keep on picking them.

If I had to guess, I'd say that if you trellis them, then a 25' row of pole beans easily would produce between 10 and 20 lbs. of beans, with the temperatures/rainfall being the difference in the lower and higher amounts. If you put them on teepees, it depends on how big the teepees are and on how many beans you plant per teepee. You might get more beans with milder temperatures and decent rainfall/irrigation and, of course, less with drought-like heat/dryness. For the average family, I'd think a 10 to 12 foot row of trellised beans would produce all you could want for eating and canning unless you're trying to can massive amounts.

You could ask this question on the Bean, Pea and Legume Forum and the bean experts there could tell you in great detail how much the different varieties or types produce for them in an average year, but not many of them have weather like ours, although some of them do. I've never weighed or kept track of our bean harvest from the pole beans because they are generally coming hot and heavy at the same time that all the tomatoes, peppers and squash are and I'm busier than a one-armed paper-hanger.

I consulted my copy of John Jeavons "How To Grow More Vegetables" book, and here's the info he gives on pole bean. With pole beans spaced 6" apart, the average pole bean plants grown in the U.S. will produce 17.4 lbs. per 100 square foot bed. With his biointensive soil preparation and techniques, you can expect to increase your yield to between 30 and 108 lbs. per 100 square foot bed. (The high end of that range sounds very high to me, but my beds aren't doubledug like his.)

So, next I looked at Carla Emery's book, The Encyclopedia of Country Living, to see what she said. Carla said a 50' row of trellised pole beans should yield 50 lbs. of beans or more, and she was spacing them 4" to 6" apart.

Let me put it another way, in a year when I've planted pole beans, I've never wished I'd planted more of them. Usually, I'm looking at them late in the season and wishing they would die. (Sorry, but it's true, and don't laugh! A woman can only pick, blanch, snap and freeze so many pole beans before she starts thinking 'next year I won't plant any of these!') Despite that, I usually plant them anyway. Last year I didn't plant any pole beans until fall because that darned 12.89" of rain late in April kept our soil soggy for two months. Consequently our pole bean harvest was late and was not as heavy as usual, and I did miss the usual madness of frantically picking and processing 'too many' beans.

Dawn

Dawn, please believe me, you've been incredibly helpful. It would probably have been better if I'd explained what I was trying to accomplish.

First of all, yes, I am a green bean fanatic, and I've always canned lots for my own use to last all winter. However, when I garden, since it is just me, and since I tend to have a HUGE garden, of course I always end up with an impossibly large surplus. I can't seem to help myself, or "think small". Then too, I do have a fairly large area that I do NOT want to have to mow in any case.

Anyway....since I'm not working due to some health issues, I started thinking about selling the surplus.

I not only could use the money from this, I NEED IT!

I do live in a rather ideal location for selling from my home, just off a very busy rural road.

So, here's the question. Which would be the most productive veggie to concentrate on growing to sell? Tomato's,or heirloom pole beans? Plus, cukes and various peppers for salsa and pickling season. My first thought was not to put all my eggs in one basket so to speak. But still, it would seem reasonable to grow mostly whatever's going to be more in demand.

Obviously there are a lot of variables to take into consideration, and frankly I'm in a bit of a quandary about it, since this is my first time shot at anything like this. I don't have a DH to help, and my DS can only lend me a bit of help in his spare time.

I have no way of knowing whether I can make a go of this or not. It's not exactly like I'm a garden or marketing pro, But, on the other hand, I don't see that I have anything to loose either... except quite a bit of work and time. Like my mom always told me when I was a kid, you've got more time than money. And right now that seems to be more true than ever.

Thanks for any additional tips anyone might be able to give. I already went to the market forum but it seemed like some of these folks were in different parts of the country, and/or had different situations or things to market than I would have here in Okie land.

Barbara

Barbara,

If I could find my notebook, in which we record harvests, and go through it, I could probably give more exact figures. But roughly, from a 15' cattle panel of Tennessee Cutshorts, I will harvest about 5 gallons of beans a week, for 3-4 weeks. (My five gallon buckets weigh in with 11-14 lbs of snap beans) Then, during the heat, they drop off to just a trickle.

It's important to water them, if it's really bad, as many pole beans will simply dry down and quit if you don't.
When I say water them, I don't mean a lot. I deep water once, at most twice, during the hottest time of the summer.

When temperatures moderate, many pole beans will start flowering and producing again, until frost. The harvest is probably only 1/4 of the first flush. But its enough for some good eating.

As Dawn mentioned, varieties are very individualistic. One needs to get to know each one.

I bet you could sell beans. Just keep in mind, that those Appalachian string varieties, though they leave most modern varieties in the dust (IMO) are under a stigma. The common consumer thinks "Strings?! I don't want strings!" They automatically equate "strings" with "tough." If you give away some samples, I bet you'll have people coming back to purchase MORE!

Also, if you should get to the point that you just don't want to pick any more. Let them dry down... and harvest dry beans. Not only can you use them for seed. But they cook up very well as dry beans. I bet the varieties you have were all originally used as snap/dry if not even snap/shell/dry.

Tomatoes should be a winner for selling, as, I imagine would cukes. I can't say about peppers.

George

Barbara,
Likewise I've been looking at selling at a farmer's market. It started 2 years ago. I have did some research and asked a lot of questions. It seems what sells well differs from area to area and season to season. You can sell almost any fresh vegetable if it is early including squash. Here squash and cukes are grown by many home gardeners. And as they tend to usually do well the demand drops off as the season progresses. Squash to basically no demand and cukes to light to moderate demand. Here tomatoes are always in demand. Right now any available are selling for 5 dollars a pound. They are out of greenhouses. Some are true greenhouse tomatoes and a few were started early in containers in a greenhouse and have now been moved outside. Which is my plan for next year. Beans always have a steady demand here. Peppers with our Hispanic population are as popular if not more so than tomatoes. You can't grow enough. I have people waiting for my fresh sweet onions. And have had several ask to be put on a list for garlic. The main thing is getting the word out. I will be surprised if you can't sell everything extra you grow. Best of luck. Jay

George,
That's basically what I needed, a rough idea about weight, productiveness, and longevity. Looking at the math is making me wish I was able to return to my old job. I already knew that selling the pole beans even for twice what one would sell tomatos was going to be labor intensive. I've got time to think this over, but like I said, I knew this wasn't going to be a very lucrative money making operation.

I've eaten pole beans before and agree with what you say about quality. There's something else that most folks don't know about green beans, specifically the canned ones. We know that large food growing companies must grow bush beans so the harvesting machines can swoop them up. There was a woman who went to a church I used to go to that had worked in a canning factory in California. She told me that when the harvesting machines cut and picked up the bean bushes, they also picked up anything that happened to be attached. From there in the canning plant, beans would be sorted and "picked over". After that, the beans were placed in a solution to dissolve anything that adhered to them, some of which was described as being bits and pieces of some pretty disgusting stuff. Then the beans were apparently rinsed and canned. I don't know for sure if all this is true, but to this day, the way she described the process, I haven't been able to bring myself to eat another can of green beans.

Since then I've sampled green beans in the produce section of stores and found they taste like cardboard. And "freshness"? Forget it!

Well, whether I sell the pole beans or not, I've planted a LOT of them, and will hopefully have enough for fresh eating and want to can enough to last through this next winter and the following one since I don't know what my health is going to do.

Thanks for the info George. This was very helpful. One way or another, we'll have food for the table and some good healthy and TASTY fresh food ahead of us this summer, plus some to put by "Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise".

Barbara

Jay...I lost my response to your post, but just let me say that your input encouraged me a lot!

I would imagine that pricing from your area to mine is not going to be all that different, so if you come up with some price fixes, what the going rates might look like as the season progresses, please post them here.

I do know in my area, targeting the "gourmet" market is going to bring higher prices. People are getting pretty sick of the bland flavorless offerings in the food stores and demanding fresher, healthier and less processed produce.

Thanks for the info. It was very helpful!

Barbara

Barbara,

I believe that, hands down and without fail, the crop that gives you the absolute best return for the space used would be commonly used culinary herbs....and especially basil. The herbs sold in most grocery stores are not very fresh and are very expensive...usally $2 to $4 for a few tiny sprigs with just a few leaves. However, there has to be a demand for them and I have no idea if people in your area are into using fresh herbs or not.

Tomatoes are always in demand, and they command the highest price earliest in the season. Whoever has the first ripe, locally-grown tomatoes available for purchase in spring can name whatever price they want and they get it. As the season progresses, the prices drop and drop and drop. It is the old law of supply and demand.

Here where I live, peppers, cukes (especially pickling cukes which are rare in stores), fresh corn and melons of all types are very popular. There is not much of a market for zucchini or squash because everyone has a neighbor who grows 'too much' of those and is eager to give them away. Most winter squash and pumpkins are too iffy because of all their pest issues.

One way to sell fresh tomatoes and peppers is to bundle tomatoes, peppers and onions together as as a 'fresh salsa' kit. People love the idea of making their own salsa.

With tomatoes, most people prefer the round, red ones. They just do. If you want to get them to try heirloom types that are unusual shapes or colors, first you have to build up their trust in the quality of your round, red tomatoes and then, eventually, you may be able to get them to try heirlooms that are unusual colors and/or shapes.

Beans and southern peas (purplehull pinkeyes, blackeyes, crowder, cream, etc.) are popular at farmer's markets and roadside stands here, but they can be labor-intensive because you have to pick them for a long time pretty much every day when they're at peak production. Okra is also popular. People prefer the flavor of fresh to that found in the stores.

Good luck,

Dawn

Dawn's comment about a 'fresh salsa kit' reminded me of something I saw recently that I thought was a really clever idea.

At our local feed & seed store, they were selling a 'salsa garden' planter. It had a tomato, pepper and cilantro plants growing together in about a 5 gallon container. I believe they sold it for $15. The investment was minimal (seeds to start the three plants, a little soil and a container). I know you were looking to sale the actual produce but this was such a unique planter (either for a gift or for oneself) that I thought I'd pass it along. They just used one of those black nursery type containers but I think you can get those terracotta look alikes for a buck or two that would really jazz up the looks of it. Maybe put a typed salsa recipe on a cute card on one of those floral arrangement picks.

People also love those jars with different layers of beans inside. Some come with spices and recipes cards as well. Throw the word 'heirloom' around and the price automatically goes up. lol Our speciality gourmet stores sell those anywhere from $8-$10 on up. Again, minimal investment if you're growing the beans and/or spices yourself.

I completely agree with Dawn on the herb angle. My favorite grocery store sells 4-5 little sprigs in a package for "fresh" (yea, right) herbs. I nearly choke each time I pass that section just thinking about the pennies worth of basil, etc. that people gladly shell out $4-$5 for these.

What about drying your own herbs and marketing some speciality 'rubs' for meats, chicken, fish, etc.? I have a jar I bought before I started gardening that's simply delicious however, it was $12 for a 5 ounce jar. There's no ingredient all that fancy and most of those items I now grow in my own garden. Guess who will be making her own spices this year? :-)

Sorry to ramble on, and on, and on.....

When I was a kid, my father, an engineer and and a gardener, calculated the value of a fairly rare herb, per oz, and what he could produce on our little acre of land. He then concluded that we ourselves had the potential to produce the entire supply of the stuff, for our whole nation, and to make a good living at it! I guess the hitch is in marketing ;)

Still, basil, sage and the various mints, oregano, etc. are all probably a good bet.

George

George hit the nail on the head when he said marketing. You can't sell what customers don't know about. And like has been mentioned in previous posts it is what locals use and want. Here with our large Hispanic population anything used in Mexican style cooking sells well. Garlic, Cilantro, beans, peppers, tomatoes,onions, ect. My suggestion is if you can find any local farm markets just go visit them and see what is selling. Visit with a few growers and see what they sell the most of. I've never seen any market where sweet corn and tomatoes doesn't sell. The problem with sweet corn is it require more area to raise a marketable amount. When I've raised herbs and tried to give the extra to coworkers many didn't want them. Again not offering it it to the right people. Where you have highway frontage that will be ideal. Just put up a sign that says what you have and those interested will stop and buy. Jay

There's some really great ideas on here! Fortunately I do live off a heavily traveled road, and there is also a local.net where produce can be advertised online for those that don't don't ordinarily use this road.

I wouldn't be able to deal with the farmer's market thing for a lot of reasons, one of which is the many restrictions they now have on it.

I've been so thrilled with my garlic harvest, and learning how to braid garlic, I am thinking about putting a large section into softneck garlic this fall for that purpose. Not a guy thing, but the ladies might get into doing something like this.

I suppose if you had the space, growing things like basket gourds for crafts or bird house gourds, might be yet another idea. Not as a main seller, but as a fill in so to speak

In all, I think it boils down to whatever one's imagination can come up with and the wherewithal to put it together.

Barbara