What did they look like before?

Couldn't find anything at all.

lou_midlothian, Prior to spraying the lawn with Turf Tea my lawn went dormant from the drought we had and looked aweful. Before the drought and years before it didn't look as good as being sprayed with Turf Tea. Even being in the lawn care and maintenance business I will admit it didn't look that nice. But at the same time I didn't want to use chemicals on my land here since I have a well for my water. As they say make everyone else property nice but your own. The problem that I really had and still have is the people who I bought this property from used rye grass. Here in the northeast that grass looks aweful all the time I feel. Just my opinion.

TurfTea What the heck is that, is this another variation of Nitron A-35, TurfMax?

I don't think so lawnkidd, I did a search on Nitron A-35 and that stuff is out of my reach at $49.95 a gallon plus shipping. They really don't show what is in it. So I have no idea what it is and if it is comparable.

Hi, I've never used Turf Tea, or Nitron A35, or ACT ---
Having said that, when I began organic lawncare, I topdressed my lawn lightly with compost & since have only used cottonseed meal, soybean meal & alfalfa pellets. Weeds are controlled with cultural practices, watering deeply & infrequently (1-1/2 to 2" irrigation every 10 to 14 days), frequent short mowing (mow every 2-1/2 to 3 days @ .750") and occasional use of a Weedhound.

Here's how green a non Turf Tea bermuda lawn looks:
(Click the thumbnails for larger pic)
{{gwi:131974}} {{gwi:142317}} {{gwi:142318}} {{gwi:84832}}

Here's what it used to look like before I moved in:
{{gwi:1106376}}

okcdan,
And they are pictures of the lawn right now? And you used 4 products on the lawn vs. 1 product on my lawn. And how many times a week you mow compared to once weekly here, when it is growing. Then how many times a week you water it? Mother Nature waters my lawn here. No wonder them patches of Bermuda grass look so aweful in my lawn this time of the year I should be out watering and cutting it all the time.
I don't think so, not in the middle of December. By the way show the Fall pictures of your lawn because the tree leaves in the back ground are still Green!!!!

okcdan, One other thing about Bermuda Grass that grass is so tough the only thing that is capable of killing it is Turflon Ester. So why use anything but water on it to get it to grow?

terryb

With all due respect, you're attempting to compare apples to oranges. You're comparing cool season grasses with warm season grasses, each of which could go dormant at different times of the year and for different reasons. While it's true that my bermuda lawn will go dormant in the winter time, your fescue would likely never make it thru the summertime here in Oklahoma. We had an entire month this summer when daily temps either exceeded 100F or were within a degree or 2. We also go weeks and sometimes months at a time without any measurable rain. In my message above, I mentioned that I water only once every 10 - 14 days. Most months I water just twice, and, I only water if mother nature hasn't given us any water.

The point I was attempting to make is that I only use very very inexpensive feed grains on my lawn & it's the greenest lawn in my entire neighborhood. Further, I looked up that Turf Tea, and found it on the Greenwood Nursery website. All I can says is "Yikes!" At $49.95 per gallon I don't think I could afford enough of it to keep my lawn as green as I can keep it using cheap grains.

Right there on that same (Greenwood Nursery) website, they say: "Want a lush, green lawn, or a beautiful landscape? Then be sure to take good care of your soil. Its one of the most important things you can do. Treat your soil right, and youÂll be rewarded amply. Let it deteriorate, and your lawn and garden wonÂt meet your expectations. Healthy soil is one of the most important aspects of organic-based landscaping and lawn care. Chemical fertilizers, aside from being toxic, are short-term plant boosters that leave behind salty residues in the soil. They prevent some plants from consuming necessary nutrients, and destroy beneficial microorganisms. In recent years, though, many people have been turning to better, Earth-friendly techniques that restore the natural power of soil."

I agree with the above statements completely, which is why I don't use any chemical fertilizers, herbicides or pesticides of any kind. I just don't think there's any reason for me to spend $49.95 plus shipping, when for far less money I can buy hundreds of pounds of grains and accomplish similar results.

You asked if those pics were of the lawn right now, well no they weren't. The pics in the earlier post were taken in July and August, after having gone many weeks with no rain & daily temps around 100F.

But, to show you more benefits of feeding the soil microbes, I'll put a few more pics here, this time the pics are from November 3rd, just a few weeks ago - A couple days after Halloween. Look at my lawn in the foreground, then notice my neighbor's lawns in the background. For some reason most everyone's lawn (except mine) is either well on the way into dormancy or already completely brown & in dormancy.

Then we had a bit of a snowstorm here about a week ago:

I guess my point is that I just wanted to let folks know you don't have to part with all the cold hard cash for a green lawn. When I went onto that site looking at the Turf Tea, they're also pushing a package deal with other products, specifically "Organic Solutions 1,2 & 3", "Prosper Soil Conditioner", and "Smart Coral Calcium" .... for my money, and for the success I've enjoyed so far, I think I'll keep paying $7.95 for a 50lb bag of soybean meal.

Good day, Dan

I went and did a search of Greenwood Nursery website and I see they are way out of line with the pricing of turf tea. But with that said I don't buy, sell or market turf tea at $49.95 a gallon that was the point I was trying to make too lawnkidd that is a lot of money for what he was talking about for the other products. But I do know this people spend money on lawncare and don't care what it looks like as long as it is neat and green. And if you look through the other post here, you will see where I stated that this is how my grass looks after one application of turf tea. BTW what's with that Bermuda grass that stuff is so tough to kill that as stated the only thing that will kill it is Turflon Ester and that is only at a rate of about 90% after 4 applications?

Bermuda Grass
Common Names: Bahama Grass, Devil's Grass, Couch Grass, Wire Grass, Indian Doab
Genus: Cynodon
Species: dactylon
Parts Used: the stems and the leaves

Bermuda grass originally came from the savannas of Africa and is the common name for all the East African species of Cynodon. It grows in open areas where there are frequent disturbances such as grazing, flooding, and fire.

Although most of these species have remained in Africa, today Cynodon dactylon is found in warm climates all over the world between 45° south and 45° north latitude. It can be found growing in pastures and the understories of open woodlands and orchards. It is called bermuda grass in the United States because it was introduced from the Bermuda Island.

Bermuda grass is a creeping grass, and will creeps along the ground and root
where ever a node touches the ground, forming a dense mat. It also reproduces from roots under the ground. It has a deep root system, and in drought situations the root system can grow 47 to 59 inches (120-150 cm) deep. Most of the root mass lies 24 inches (60 cm) under the surface.

Its blades are a gray-green color and are short, usually 1 to 4 inches (3-10 cm)long with rough edges. The erect stems can grow 0.3 to 1.3 feet (0.1-0.4 m) tall. The stems are slightly flattened, and an inflorescent purple in color.

Bermuda grass reproduces through seeds and through runners and rhizomes. The seedheads are on 1-3 inch (3-7 cm) spikes and are themselves about 2 inches long. Bermuda grass will put out seeds about 3 months after planting. The seeds germinate at temperatures above 68° F (20° C), and begin to grow within 2 weeks. One plant can cover an area of 3 square yards (2.5 sqm.) in just 150 days after germinating.

Bermuda grass can grow in poor soil. During droughts the upper parts die off, but the grass will keep growing from its rhizomes. It prefers moist and warm climates, and where there is more than 16 inches (410 mm) of rainfall a year.

Bermuda grass is an early successional grass, and is first to grow back after grass fires, which burn quite often on the African savanna.

To the Hindu in India, bermuda grass was a sacred grass because it fed their sacred cows. In ancient Roman days they squeezed the juice from the stems and used it as a diuretic and and astringent to stop bleeding.

Bermuda grass is considered a very invasive and competitive weed. Few herbicides are effective against it. Before mechanized farm machinery, bermuda grass was the farmer's worst weed. However, back then it saved thousands of acres of farm soil from erosion. It was the most widely grown pasture and turf grass in the South. Bermuda grass is highly nutritional for cattle and can be fed to sheep.

2002

terryb

What's your point? Again you're trying to make comparisons between different kinds of grass, which again, has absolutely no bearing on the point I've now made twice. Why don't you attempt to address the point I made?

So, you don't care for (or dislike) bermuda. I get that. So what?

Again, my point is that you can feed the soil microbes far more economically with simple, cheap feed grains.

I happen to like bermuda, I happen to like what it looks like and feels like when I walk barefooted in it, when it's cut around 5/8" to 3/4". The fact that it happens to require more N than other types of grass to look it's best still doesn't damper how I feel about it & how it looks. But again, that has nothing to do with the points in my earlier posts.

One more thing, you keep saying "BTW what's with that Bermuda grass that stuff is so tough to kill that as stated the only thing that will kill it is Turflon Ester and that is only at a rate of about 90% after 4 applications?

The answer is simple, just grow a tree! Bermuda dies in a heartbeat if it doesn't have a minimum of 6 to 8 hrs a day of sunlight. If you want to kill out a patch of bermuda, lay down a tarp for a couple weeks. No need for all the nasty chemicals.

Again, I'm in total agreement with naturally taking care of the soil which in turn feeds the turfgrass. And again, I don't use any chemical fertilizers, herbicides or pesticides of any kind on my turf. I keep it looking better than the rest of my neighborhood using simple good cultural practices as well as taking care of the soil.

You also said that in your pic, that's what your turf looks like after only one application of turf tea. What'd it look like before? Show me the pic please. I've shown you my before pic & how simple cheap grains make my lawn very green.

One last point. This is an organic lawn forum, it's about exchanging ideas on how to care for lawns. I think you're off base and certainly off topic to keep talking about bermudagrass the way you are. Tens of thousands of homeowners, golf courses, athletics fields & other commercial entities across the southern part of this great nation use bermudagrass, because for them it does a better job of looking best under the conditions it's given.

Good day, Dan

okcdan, Are you truely that ignorant of a person that you may not be able to comprehend that you are the one that came on here comparing in the first place?

terryb said: "okcdan, Are you truely that ignorant of a person that you may not be able to comprehend that you are the one that came on here comparing in the first place?"

Nope, I'm not ignorant at all! I didn't post a reply to compare turf types. I came to compare very expensive products to very inexpensive products.

Hmmmm -- since I've stated several times that I'm comparing SOIL AMENDMENTS and NOT turfgrass TYPE, and at the risk of coming across as a smartass, I'm thinking I'm not the one who has the issues of selective comprehension.

For some reason you continue to not comment about that which I continue to bring up & you continue to talk about bermudagrass. That's NOT what this thread is about, nor was it what my comments were about.

Perhaps if you re-read my posts you'll "get it."

Again, I'm talking about things you add to your turf, to assist the soil food web, you know, the soil microbes. No where was I attempting to compare types of turf. (That's what you were doing.)

You started this thread talking about a product that you added to your turf that you claimed improved it's appearance. Claiming it's more green than it's ever been. You said that, and even though you posted NO before & after pics, I still believe you.

Then in my post, my claim is that I added a different type of product & I showed my results. I also claimed that the products that I used were less expensive, which they are. I've searched over 2 hrs on the web & cannot find Turf Tea for less than $34.95 per gallon plus shipping. I also checked all the stores in my area & no one carries the stuff, so I'd have to order it online if I wanted to use it. The problem, is that I'd be spending 4 to 5 times as much money as I do now to achieve what I already achieve.

What is it you don't get about my posts? Am I not typing in english?

okcdan,
Okay you want to compare price let it be shown right here. First how many square feet of area are you talking about. I'm talking 10,000 sq. ft. of sprayed area. And that is just in grass. Not any buildings or flower beds.
This is your list of products added.
1. Compost- at what price and how much?
2. Cottonseed Meal- at what price and how much?
3. Soybean Meal- at what price and how much?
4. Alfalfa Pellets- at what price and how much?
5. Time and expense of going to buy these products?

Now the contents of Turf Tea
1. Natural and organic nutracueticals (Proprietary blend)
2. Bonticals
3. Soil Bacteria's and fungi
4. Complex sugars and protiens
5. Carbohydrates
6. Vitamins
7. Antioxidents
Now this is what the cost would be for a customer spray the 10,000 sq. ft. area. With the 1 gallon Turf Tea delivered to the door. And it can be sprayed in 1 hr. using a pump-up sprayer added to 4 gallon of water. Approx. $34.85 per application of 10,000 sq. ft.
So this is the real pricing to the customer per gallon
$34.85

I personally think Turf Tea is worthless junk. Soil bacteria and fungi? I'd bet they're dead by the time I apply. That's why we brew our own ACT for 1/1000th of the cost compared to bulk compost.

I think you need a lesson in soil biology. You can do that by going to soilfoodweb.com .... Nothing you said make sense at all and doesn't seem to go with what Dr ingham has been teaching...

lou_midlothian, What is your problem? Do you even understand Dr. Elaine Ingham's work and book? Seems to me that you are quite ignorant to all the facts that she talks about. Hope it isn't me but you seem like you are some place between the planets of jupiter and mars like some place out in space? Any way I did get a kick out of and a chuckle from your post. TerryB IS LMAO @ YOU!!!! Also BTW why are you making ACT if you think Tea is junk? I just don't understand your attacking post when you are the one that is contradicting yourself.

please, not Ingham again...we know that soil microbes are needed in the soil to convert nutrients to the proper config. for plant uptake. A healthy soil has no need for an enzyme/fungi/bacteria inoculum unless it has been depleted. Using turf tea as an inoculum is third world stuff...and used to mainly convert compost to N...And, any company that sells a product without giving you analysis of the contents is supect...

further, turf tea, EM compost tea etc...these aren't fertilizers...they are inoculum...

At the risk of getting my head snapped off by one or another of the posters here, I'll offer a few centavos worth of something...

1. Compost- at what price and how much?

Compost is the expensive material in okcdan's list. The cost to my door is about $70 per 1,000 square feet. That's stinking redonculous! However, the cost to make my own tea with compost is only $0.35 per 1,000 square feet. I can handle that.

2. Cottonseed Meal- at what price and how much?

At $8 per 50-pound bag and 15 pounds per 1,000 square feet, the cost is $2.40 per 1,000 square feet. Soy and alfalfa are roughly the same cost per 1,000 square feet. I can handle these costs, too.

terryb: I think you're missing all the points made here. One is that you can't come to a forum and post a picture with a product name and expect to get away without a challenge. First of all it looks like you are promoting the product, which is a no-no. The way you're defending it, it really does look like you're here simply promoting the product.

Turf Tea is automatically suspect as a biological type tea simply because it comes pre-made in a bottle. Those of us who have been watching or making tea over the decade since it started to come to prominence have become aware that you cannot store microbes in a bottle. Attempts to render the microbes dormant are apparently not successful in practice, but it could be that Turf Tea has been successful. If so you would think one of us would have heard about it. By making tea at home using relatively standard equipment and recipes, as Lou was suggesting, you can have some assurance of having a good biological tea.

ntbio is exactly correct in saying that tea is better used to inoculate the soil with microbes than it is as a fertilizer. I don't agree that it is third world stuff, but that's just a detail for a different discussion.

A quick note...i would argue that compost is energy for the soil and compost tea is the engine to convert that energy for the plants use...fertilizer/compost is useless without soil microbes. I'm sorry if everyone already knows this.

I think Ohio State or Michigan Stae is releasing a study that concludes that 50# of organic fertilizer is equal to 800 # of compost in terms of energy for the soil...not only nutrition for the turf but food for the microbes...think carbs...

And in defense of compost tea, it is well known that the use of chemical fertilizers/compounds in the soil destroy the ecosystem replaced by compost tea.

I DO apologize for the comment regarding compost tea being a third world product.. I don't like EM (for example) and I see the pics of people in places with nothing praising it as a solution to end all. It is an inoculum used to convert rubish to available N and I am opposed to EM's reluctance to disclose or label their product with the cultures and market it with lots of stories but no university studies.

I don't know if we're voting on this, but I entirely agree with you ntbio.

dchall, As always knocking someone is just your style as any person that reads your folloq up posts can see. I believe you should go back to school and take a math course because I see you still can't do simple math. For your information Compost Tea has been made for centuries not just for the past 10 years. Oh yeah btw how many compost brewers do you run at one time? Seems to me that your yard isn't all that big if that is your yard on your website I wouldn't want to be accused of assuming. That leads me to another thought here, I just wonder how many hits you get off that site a day to sell products to people, yes I'm asking that question? Since I don't see any place in this website where I posted anything about a website or phone number for people to contact me as your one post said Terry that is a no-no. Everyone can find out anything on the web that they want. EXPOSED!!!

Let the head snapping continue...

terryb: It would be much simpler if you went back to review what you said about me and then search for the evidence. I'll give you a start.
1. I didn't knock anyone on this thread. Sometimes I do, but not this time.
2. Compost tea has not been made for centuries. Compost tea is an aerated liquid. You're thinking of compost leachate where compost or manure is soaked in stagnant water.
3. I never said compost tea had only been made for the last 10 years.
4. The photo on my website is not of my house, but what difference does that make?
5. I have no idea how many hits I get off my website. I don't visit it myself except to get the URL when I want to post a link.
6. I have never sold anything to anyone. I am a retired rocket scientist and jet engine engineer and now do administrative research for the oil and gas industry.
7. I have never posted a phone number on my website. If you can find my phone number from anything I've posted, I'd be more scared than surprised.

Let the head snapping continue...

terryb: It would be much simpler if you went back to review what you said about me and then search for the evidence. I'll give you a start.
1. I didn't knock anyone on this thread. Sometimes I do, but not this time.
2. Compost tea has not been made for centuries. Compost tea is an aerated liquid. You're thinking of compost leachate where compost or manure is soaked in stagnant water.
3. I never said compost tea had only been made for the last 10 years.
4. The photo on my website is not of my house, but what difference does that make?
5. I have no idea how many hits I get off my website. I don't visit it myself except to get the URL when I want to post a link.
6. I have never sold anything to anyone. I am a retired rocket scientist and jet engine engineer and now do administrative research for the oil and gas industry.
7. I have never posted a phone number on my website. If you can find my phone number from anything I've posted, I'd be more scared than surprised.

David, terryb is once again showing his selective comprehension skills. I know you've read through this thread & you know that it took me four (4) posts for him to realize that I wasn't comparing grass types. He's now gone so far as to make up stuff about the site used to show folks how to make compost tea. Perhaps he didn't get to the part where it explains how you can go to your local Walmart & buy a few inexpensive items to build yourself a brewer.

terryb, I know you're gonna read this, so, please pull up the website (I'll provide you the link) & please tell me where (anywhere) on that site where there's anything being sold or even any links to products being sold.

Here's the link:

okcdan - thanks for the outline for the organic products for the lawn. I have multiple feedstores available and am anxious to purchase and try some of the organics.

Is it a consistent balance of the three - soy, cottonseed, alfalfa - or do you favor heavier use of one throughout the growing season?

Do you use a drop spreader for the soy and cottonseed meal? Or just spread by hand?

(((terryb: I think you're missing all the points made here. One is that you can't come to a forum and post a picture with a product name and expect to get away without a challenge. First of all it looks like you are promoting the product, which is a no-no. The way you're defending it, it really does look like you're here simply promoting the product.)))

Turf Tea is automatically suspect as a biological type tea simply because it comes pre-made in a bottle. Those of us who have been watching or making tea over the decade since it started to come to prominence have become aware that you cannot store microbes in a bottle.(((Anyone can promote any businsess on here they want to just because they write the FAQ's for the forums??? They are alllowed to do that huh?? I guess companies that been making tea products for the past 30-35 years here in the states don't know what they are doing, because they store and sell the product in a bottle. That's right I will defend any business I buy, promote and sell the finished products for.)))

Hi ahava --

While I've used several different feed grains, I really favor soybean meal. First, it's really easy to spread using any ordinary drop or rotary type spreader. It spreads just like commercial fertilizers. Also, it's got the 2nd highest protein content of all the feed grains (2nd only to corn gluten meal) at 47% protein, it's equal to a 7-2-1 NPK analysis. Corn gluten meal typically costs around twice as much as soybean meal and cottonseed meal is really a pain to spread (with any kind of spreader) so that's why I prefer soybean meal. Oh, I also add my daily used coffee grounds to the spreader each month.

I just put in the soybean meal, add the coffee, mix it up, spread it & then water it in!

{{gwi:1101864}}

It's pretty simple, only takes about 15 minutes each time I put out the fertilizer and my results have been outstanding.

Good day, Dan

I'll be the first to admit that I know very little about turf tea. However, I do know basic biology.

Most aerobic organisms die in the absence of oxygen, but certain organisms (some bacteria, yeasts, and internal parasites) can function for short periods anaerobically (without oxygen). The organisms that multiply rapidly when aerating compost tea will die fairly quickly if sealed in a bottle.

-Deerslayer

I get it now. This was basically spammish.

No It's not spam it's about people who write the FAQ's on Garden Web and post their websites in the info that they are suppling to US people. If I want to spam I would simply put my website in mypage info!!!

Okay. This is my last post here. I'm finished bumping this to the top to bring more attention to your lame product. You'll have to do it yourself from now on. I'm sure you can handle this well.

Wow, I just read this whole thread and I must say I am mighty confused. David isn't selling anything on that website that I can find. Isn't it just instructions on how to build your own compost tea maker? These are similar to the instructions he's given elsewhere. Mr. Terry I don't understand why you are being so rude - DChall has been very kind and respectful in the years that I have listened to his advice and he has taken time to personally reply to questions I had years ago on a different website. Please try to be nicer in your comments in the future. We are all here to learn something from each other and anger will not help any of us.
I'll pray for you Mr. Terry.
Hugs,
Christina

So Terry, what exactly type of microbes are in Turf Tea that doesn't need oxygen to stay alive or does Turf Tea come with mini air pump to keep beneficial aerobic microbes alive?

Bottled compost tea has been around for a while but the purpose for it is quite different than aerated compost tea. With Aerated compost tea, the purpose is to re-introduce benefical aerobic microbes to the soil the same way you'd do with compost but at much cheaper price and less labor intensive.

What makes Turf Tea so special from ordinary bottled compost tea that we see at the stores (Howard Garrett, Nature Guide, to name a couple)...

Terry: Here's a list of what's in Turf Tea Magic:

"The ingredients include fish emulsion, seaweed, micro-nutrients, coral calcium, neem oil, benefitial fungi and much more. These efficient and cost effective products work on sustainable agriculture, gardens, nurseries, greenhouses, golf courses, turf and all green areas. They work with any spray equipment or drip irrigation. Increase yield, shelf life, sweetness and profits. These products have been approved by the NOP for certified organic growing."

You can put all that stuff in ACT, some while brewing and some after brewing, just before spraying.

To me, it appears Turf Tea Magic is probably pretty good stuff.

It would be nice to know if they are really able to keep the microbes alive while in storage though.

You should try to make some ACT, it's real easy to do and I've had luck with it for about 7 years now.

I mean, it's REALLY easy to make!

okcdan, just curious, does your neighbor ask for tips on how you take care of your lawn? It's because, the first pic you posted(leftmost) totally puts your neighbor's lawn into ..... you know :D hehehe

Your lawn is a very beautiful lawn! I can't imagine how you were able to make the slope so flat perfect. Can you please share?

Posted by v1rtu0s1ty 5 (My Page) on Mon, Apr 23, 07 at 22:44

okcdan, just curious, does your neighbor ask for tips on how you take care of your lawn?

Well, to the north, the old retired couple apparently just don't care much about their lawn, but a couple other neighbors have commented & one even came to ask what I was doing, so there I am explaining about protein based feed grains and feeding the soil microbes & I'm getting weird looks like I'm from outer space! But, after seeing my results last year, this year, that same neighbor's gonna try to step away from the chemicals and use grains!

Your lawn is a very beautiful lawn! I can't imagine how you were able to make the slope so flat perfect. Can you please share?

I mow with a reel mower at .625" on my bermuda. Since you live up in Illinois, I think the only grass you could grow so that you could mow that short would be bentgrass, like greenjeans grows. If I remember right, you have KBG & it'll perform best for you when you mow very tall.... 3" is good, taller would be better, but for my bermudagrass, the shorter the better. :^)

Good day, Dan

Gentle People (and others)! There is an old (African? Third world?) proverb that goes "When elephants fight the grass gets trampled". It seems that this proverb is being played out quite literally in the foregoing exchanges.