Mother Nature is killing my lawn!

16 years ago

I see that lawn care has split since the last time I posted, so I'll post this in the Organic Lawn Care forum first.

As you all may know, Texas has been getting pounded with rain these last couple of months. My lawn is beginning to suffer as a result of this. In the spring up until early May, my St. Augustine was a dark green. I applied soybean meal & corn meal back in April. I watered once in May I believe, and haven't watered it since. However, my lawn has continued to turn progressively lighter shades of green, is thinning and many areas are starting to get brown spots on the blades.

Questions:

1. Is is possible to have too much organic material in the lawn? My lawn feels like a sponge most days (yes, I know the rain is at fault - but I would still expect it to dry out some).

2. What should my course of remediation be? My plan is to take soil samples and verify what is going on, and then go from there. I figure while I am waiting on the results I can also hit the lawn with another round of CM and SBM.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I've included images below. (Click on the thumbnail for a larger image.)

{{gwi:1104386}}

{{gwi:1104387}}

{{gwi:1104388}}

{{gwi:1104389}}

Comments (38)

texasredhead
16 years ago
Corn meal is not a fertilizer. Corn gluten meal being 60 % protein translates to 9% nitrogen making it a potent fertilizer. IMO, soy bean meal is highly overated. What you are presently doing is feeding the microbes but not the grass. I use corn gluten meal and Milorganite on my St,Augustine. It's as green as St. Augustine gets and I'm having to mow twice a week. BTW, I live in Arlington and I'v had to pump water out of my pool it's rained so much.
v1rt
16 years ago

IMO, soy bean meal is highly overated.

I think, I should agree with you. I haven't much noticed changes on my lawn especially the dark greening. 1 more week and it's almost 1 month after application. I am looking for the dark green that I witnessed late April when I applied corn gluten meal back in April 5.
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I don't understand peoples reluctance to use what is at their disposal. Remember the advertising slogan of that chemical company.... "BETTER THINGS, FOR BETTER LIVING...THRU CHEMISTRY" Many, what you call, chemicals, are organic in nature... i.e. they are made from living things, such as plants or animals and do not constitute harmful aspects of everyday living. You have a weed....you either live with it, or kill it. There's two methods...one, you get down on all fours and pull it out..and make sure you get all of it...roots and all, otherwise, all you have done is made the weed stronger to come back better than it did before. Some weeds, such as dandelion have roots that are a foot long. So the need to get something down there to get it all is paramount. Digging is often too tiring and the gardener most times just gives up...preferring to wait until it shows up again and pull off the flower. Others, knowing it wont die of its own accord, wish to end its life once and for all...by spraying something that the weed cant fight....systemically takes a poison down to its roots and letting the grass push it out. You can look on store shelves for the type of herbicide that is organic. Or by hand spraying the individual weed with one that is chemical in nature. Its your choice. As for the ants, given the size of the ant hill I suspect they are dining on dying organic matter in your lawn. Whether there is a fungus in there I yield to spraying a fungicide and see what happens. yellow patches can be a sign the soil is in a bad way. Not enough moisture is gaining down deep enough to encourage strong root growth. To that, a layering of topsoil/compost over the area and re-seeding can improve the quality of the grass. Following a regimen of over layering soil every spring, every fall, then overseeding at the same times, can result in good turf grass. To find out how much soil to buy: Measure the area you wish to work, LENGTH TIMES WIDTH....IN FEET multiplied by the depth of soil IN INCHES...multiplied by 3, divide by 1000 results in the number of cubic yards of soil to buy. A schedule of fertilizing every spring through fall will result in strong roots and good growth and can result in filling in the bare spots that might crop up. Now about the ants: This is a formulae that works and is not harmful to pets if you follow directions. You buy at your drug store some boric acid powder. It comes in a package, costs about $5.00 or so..for about 4 ounces..give or take. Into two cups of boiling water, you add one cup of granulated sugar, stirring to dissolve. Then you add 2 tablespoons of boric acid, stir. You then use a container, such as one that holds margarine to which you poke holes into at the side at the bottom to let the ant enter. Poke holes north, east, west, south. Then, at the drug store you buy some cotton balls--they come in a package or bag. You dip a cotton ball into the boric acid solution and place into the small container. Put as many of the cotton balls into how many the container allows, put the cover on to keep out bees and such, then place it on the ant hill or where you see them travel. Do as many containers as you wish...any solution left over can be refrigerated....mark it so it isn't used for other purposes. What this does; the sugar is the come on--the boric acid the poison that is taken back to queenie. She dies, the colony dies and you get about fixing your lawn. Its simple....and it works. Replace the contents about every 3 days or so.
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v1rt
16 years ago
However, I forgot that, I'm actually feeding the soil and not the grass. I think, putting SBM is still good as it encourages beneficial organisms to go to surface and eat.
morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
16 years ago
I think, I should agree with you. I haven't much noticed changes on my lawn especially the dark greening. 1 more week and it's almost 1 month after application. I am looking for the dark green that I witnessed late April when I applied corn gluten meal back in April 5.

Three weeks is about the time when you'd notice any impact. I wouldn't say the change is extreme (my lawn already being very well-fed all the time), but the soil alterations are amazing.
wgillette
Original Author
16 years ago
I guess I should have mentioned that I put the corn meal down to take care of some brown patch that I had. I'm mixed on the results of that as well.

Texasredhead, I assuming the Milorganite bag has application rates on it? What have you applied for best results?
skoot_cat
16 years ago
This problem at hand has nothing to do with Milorganite or SBM and the effects. You could apply as much as you want and it would still do nothing in your situation.

The problem is obviously the excessive rain fall and because of this your S.A. now has a disease. It appears to be Gray Leaf Spot. This disease is most often observed from late spring to early fall, especially during prolonged periods of rainfall. Excessive applications of quick-release nitrogen sources enhance disease severity as does compacted soil. The Disease is chronic but not severe.

My plan is to take soil samples and verify what is going on, and then go from there.

This is your best bet. Also take some of the effected blade with roots.

You might want to wait until the excessive rainfall has stopped before feeding or trying CM on the lawn. Even Organics/Grains can leach or get washed away.

Here is a link that might be useful: Identification of Landscape Turfgrass Diseases
deerslayer
16 years ago
"IMO, soy bean meal is highly overated"

Why do you think SBM is overrated?

-Deerslayer
texasredhead
16 years ago
What is the purpose of soybean meal? I have not heard it extolled except on this board. What is the protein count? The main problem with St.Augustine is that it requires a lot of nitrogen which is readily available with CGM as well as a number of packaged organic fertilizers. We have had exceptional rainfall in Tarrant County and my St.Augustine remains robust and healthy. I fertilize early spring and early fall with corn gluten meal which also gives me preemergent weed control. Once or twice in between I fertilize with Milorganite because I like the way it makes my lawn glow in the dark. I've been keeping this place organic for 35 years and my lawn stands out in the neighborhood.
jeffcarr3
16 years ago
v1rtu0s1ty,

You will be lucky to get the dark green lawn in July that you did in April with a cool season grass, the summer temps are working against you. A dark green lawn, also, does not necessarily mean you have a healthy lawn. In my opinion, CGM is an excellent soil amendment that contains more protein than SBM. However, in my area of the country, CGM is 50% more exspenive.

texasredhead,

Soybean meal is about 47% protein, which translates to 7% Nitrogen. Why you believe SBM is overrated?
deerslayer
16 years ago
"What is the purpose of soybean meal? I have not heard it extolled except on this board. What is the protein count?"

SBM has been considered an organic fertilizer for years. Here's a list of organic fertilizers published by Colorado State University Extension.

SBM

At 7% N, SBM has a higher percentage of nitrogen than Milorganite. The key advantages of SBM over CGM are cost (in many locations) and ease of spreading. SBM spreads like a commercial product. However, SBM doesn't have the pre-em properties of CGM.

-Deerslayer
texasredhead
16 years ago
jeffcar3, St. Augustine is not a cool season grass. It and bermuda are the pre-eminent hot season grasses in most of the south.

Deerslayer, what is the average cost of SBM? I pay around $18 for 50# bags of CGM and $10 for a 40# bag of Milorganite.
deerslayer
16 years ago
In Northern Illinois, SBM costs about $12 per 50 lb bag. Milorganite is about $10 per 40 lb bag at box stores but is usually on sale in the spring for about $7.

-Deerslayer
jeffcarr3
16 years ago
texasredhead,

Thank you, I am aware that St Augustine is not a cool season grass, that comment was for v1rtu0s1ty, who stated he was looking for the deep green he achieved in April. However, you still have not said why you believe SBM is overrated!
dchall_san_antonio
16 years ago
I'm not sure there is a really nice way to say it, but all y'all are simply guessing. This situation is classic Texas. We have a calcarious (high pH) soil normally. With fertilizer and especially with organic fertilizer, the surface layer root zone develops some humic acids which change the pH to something more in line with what the plants need. When the pH decreases, more iron is released from the bonds that the high pH situation creates. With more iron available there is a darker green color. When we get these sustained rains, the acids at the surface leach out and the iron becomes unavailable, thus leading to the yellowing.

If you do nothing, your lawn will return to normal dark green next spring. What you can do now is apply greensand at 40 pounds per 1,000 square feet. Greensand is one of those minerals mined from the ancient ocean depths. It contains so many minerals that it is hard to say how it works; however, once you try it and your lawn is the ONLY green one on the block, you will be convinced that it does work. Again, being an organic solution, it takes 3 weeks to show results.

The chemists will tell you that the iron in greensand is in a form that is not available to plants. Well, that may be, but something happens that makes iron from somewhere available. My theory is that the greensand has the effect of lowering the soil pH to more acidic levels and that frees the iron that was bound by the higher pH lime particles.
texasredhead
16 years ago
I have been using greensand, lavasand and other rock powders for some time. The biggest problem is that they are hard to spread which makes even distribution a little difficult. As I said before, this board is the only place I have seen so much said about soybean meal. The only reason I can see to use it is if you are reseeding frequently which would negate the use of corn gluten meal. Since St.Augustine is not seed propogated, CGM is a better choice for me.
v1rt
16 years ago
jeffcarr3,

Maybe, I was just so impatient last week. And also, I was disappointed how my lawn looked like a week or two ago. I changed my watering from once every 2 weeks to once every week. Today, I noticed a huge difference. Please see pic below.

{{gwi:107062}}
deerslayer
16 years ago
"The only reason I can see to use it is if you are reseeding frequently which would negate the use of corn gluten meal."

CGM costs $4 (18/4.5) per lb of N and SBM costs $3.43 (12/3.5) per lb of N. In addition, SBM spreads more easily. IMO, those are two very good reasons to use SBM.

Perhaps the people on the other boards are math challenged or enjoy having yellow powder on their shoes. 8^)

-Deerslayer
morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
16 years ago
Today, I noticed a huge difference. Please see pic below.

At 95Â°, that is one incredible lawn! We're heading near that today and mine's stressing badly.

Your green is much deeper than mine and the density looks a lot better, too. Shoot mine from a 25 degree angle and you're going to see thin areas.

That's really a fantastic job you're doing!
texasredhead
16 years ago
Again Deerslayer, my use of CGM accomplishes two things, it give me 9% nitrogen as a fertilizer while giving me good control on annual weeds. Just out of curiosity, I will check with my local feed store to see if they handle soybean meal. BTW, Milorganite contains 4% iron. I live in Tarrant County Texas, which is part of the Dallas/Ft.Worth Metroplex. Our soils are alkaline.
bpgreen
16 years ago
"BTW, Milorganite contains 4% iron. I live in Tarrant County Texas, which is part of the Dallas/Ft.Worth Metroplex. Our soils are alkaline."

It's unlikely that the iron in the Milorganite is going to help you much. Your soil probably isn't low in iron; it just can't make use of the iron it has. Adding more iron is unlikely to help unless the iron is chelated.
dao4686
16 years ago
Wgillette,

I live in Katy, so have experienced the same weather that you have had. I was sure that my lawn would leach out and turn light like yours, but actually it's the greenest yard on the block.

I think that DChall is correct on this one. I, like you put down CGM in Feb. Then in March I put down greensand and in April, lavasand. In May I put down some ladybug fertilizer, and then this weekend I put down alfalfa meal. The water absorbtion in my yard is dramatically higher in my yard, than my neighbors.
jeffcarr3
16 years ago
v1rtu0s1ty,
You certainly have a nice lawn, however, if you have a lengthy stretch of 95 degree days you will have to work against your lawns natural tendency to go dormant. For whatever reason, most people believe their cool season lawn should be wonderfully green through the dog days of summer. Maybe you don't have to address these issues in zone 5.

Texasredhead, your use of CGM for multiple purposes (pre-em/fert) does not mean that SBM is overrated. For me annual weeds are no longer a problem, I can hand pick what few do pop up. So I do not need the CGM, I use the SBM as it is much cheaper, and I certainly believe in its use.
deerslayer
16 years ago
TexasRedhead, I don't have anything against CGM. I was responding to your comment that SBM is overrated and is rarely discussed outside this forum. IMO, both CGM and SBM are excellent organic fertilizers.

-Deerslayer
wgillette
Original Author
16 years ago
dchall -

What's the best way you've found to spread Greensand? I tried last year, and ended up spreading it by hand, which like teaxasredhead said is difficult to spread evenly. Any tips? Should I go ahead and add another dose of SBM as well?
v1rt
16 years ago
morpheuspa,

My backyard lawn is bad too. :( I also have thin areas. I also have compacted soil since the grass blades shows very very slow growth. I always see the grass turn to ashen color when it's very hot outside. I will hire someone to do core aeration in fall.

Today, we had a very good rain again. Hopefully, the grass at the back will recover a little. It's hard to maintain too since my kids always plays at the back. Some blades are now flat. It's funny that when looking from the second floor, I see tons of footstep marks.

Thanks!
v1rt
16 years ago
morpheuspa,

I forgot to add, maybe, my previous applications of compost tea helped with the soil with water retention.

I remember, you mentioned that my blades are dense. Yes, they're very dense. In fact, I have a close up picture of it which I took today. I took a closeup picture of the blades because I was so pissed off with the mower blade I bought at Meijer. Brand is Poulan Pro. The blade looked similar to the Gator blade. I returned the blade today. :P

Also, looks like my grass is experiencing some disease. I remember bestlawn told me that the browning on tip-blade only is bad. I'm hoping that it was only caused by the bad blade.

{{gwi:1104390}}
morpheuspa (6B/7A, E. PA)
16 years ago
Also, looks like my grass is experiencing some disease.

To my admittedly poor eyes, that looks like classic dull blade on the lawnmower syndrome. It's not cutting, it's tearing away the poor things.

The shot's not close enough for me to be sure, but there are small spots on the blades. Could that be the start of leaf spot, or just fallen-away bits of things?

I've found I'm just not happy with a standard mower--it rotates too slowly and tends to tear the blades of the grass if it gets even slightly dull. Mine has three blades that rotate at 5,800 RPM and do a good job even if slightly dull. The blades snap out easily for sharpening (so I tend to sharpen them a lot).
v1rt
16 years ago
I don't know what the RPM is on my mower. This morning, I went out and had a close look at the blade where the color was changing from dry brown, dark browning, dark yellowing, light yellowing then green. That's what my eyes see right now from the picture above. Anyways, I pulled I blade and guess what, the other end is dead. I tried 10 more of this kind and all where dead.

The blades that only had thin light browning then green are still OK and firm.

I read somewhere, maybe mower forum, that the blade should not be really sharp. That person said that if it's too sharp, the grass blade is just going to slip/slide the mower blade. I didn't believe the post. I still sharpened my blade to the max. I pulled one grass blade and tried the sharpened blade. It did a very nice cut. We'll find out on my Thursday mowing. :)
lou_spicewood_tx
16 years ago
Texasredhead,

I live in Ellis county, not far from Tarrant County line and I pay 8 dollars for SBM for 50lbs bag. It's cheaper than CGM which costs 14 dollars for 40lbs bag and it is very powdery. Who wants yellow shoes plus fertlizing half of your neighborhoods' yards on the slightest windy days. The granulated ones are in the 20 dollars range for 40lbs! How is SBM overrated? It has good amount of protein in it, around 7% Nitrogen.

I've used a 50/50 mixture of greensand and lava sand. Much more spreadable by hand. Haven't really used spreader for that. Greensand takes too long to dry out.
jeffcarr3
16 years ago
Not to mention that SBM contains 1.2% phosphorus, 1.5% potassium, with smaller amounts of calcium, magnesium, and sulfur. CGM does not contain these nutrients.
lou_spicewood_tx
16 years ago
Actually CGM has good amount of calcium, around 4% which plays a role in keeping certain weeds under control.
skoot_cat
16 years ago
I don't know what the RPM is on my mower.

Take it to a mower repair shop/dealer and have them check and adjust it for you.

Perfect example: It was 3 weeks since my blade was sharpened/balanced. The first 4-5 mowing's were very clean cut. Then, about the 5th mowing it looked as if all my grass blades had been gnawed off. I checked the blade and it was still very sharp. I went back to the mower shop with the blade and explained the problem. The guy said your blade is fine, your mowers RPM's are probably low. I still didn't believe this was the case as my mower is less than a year old. So I brought the mower in and they did find that the RPM's were below normal. It took about 10min and cost $6.00 for them to test and make the adjustment. The mechanic recommenced you have it checked once a year.

Hope this helps
skoot_cat
16 years ago
As far as the SBM, Greensand, CGM etc. Consider your selfs lucky.

I have to place an order for 50# SBM, wait 2 weeks and pay $15.00. The only greensand I can find comes in expensive 5# bags. No cornmeal to be found and CGM is $29.00 for a 40# bag.
deerslayer
16 years ago
"I still sharpened my blade to the max."

The problem with an overly sharp mower blade is that the edge may curl when used. Rounded cutting surfaces do not cut efficiently. Normally, edge curling isn't a problem with today's blades that have hardened cutting surfaces.

BTW, make sure that you balance your blade.

-Deerslayer
v1rt
16 years ago
skoot_cat,

That's a very good advice. My problem now is, who should I contact? Should I contact Sears since that's where I bought it 4 years ago. I'm sure that RPM has reduced since it has been 4 years with no maintenance.

Thanks!
skoot_cat
16 years ago
Look in the yellow pages under a mower or small engine repair, mower service etc. I have a few in my area that are less than a mile away.

I have a Toro 20072 Variable Speed and I took it to a mom and pop place called Grass Mowers, they were very nice/helpful and had great prices. They sharpen and balance my blade for $2.50

The RPM is a minor adjustment. You should be fine taking it to any place that repairs mowers, trimmers, edgers etc.
v1rt
16 years ago
skoot_cat,

I kept the mower at home and decided to re-sharpen the blade. I'm very happy that it was successful. I mowed yesterday around 7pm. Please take a look at this {{gwi:1104385}} I took this morning and compare it to my previous pic above. It really did a clean nice cut.
skoot_cat
16 years ago
Much better! I like the Photoshop work too.

Mother Nature is killing my lawn!

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