Organically, I don't have a good solution for you other than to keep after it as you've been doing. Maybe somebody else will chime in, but I can't think of a solution that will work in a tolerable time frame.

For soil sampling, if you have a severely different section of soil it's wise to take a second set of samples from there. It sounds like you have a pretty consistent sample set--we can just call it "not that great."

Take a small sample from many different areas at a depth of about four inches. Combine them all together, mix it up, remove foreign material that's easy to get out of there, and dry it a bit before sending it off.

Are you using Logan Labs? I tend to recommend them as their $25 test is comprehensive, they're fully accredited, and they're fast.

Post the results over on the Lawn Forum as the corrections for most issues aren't organic (although many are OMRI-approved, the chemistry is cooked up in a lab, or the chemistry is natural but it's not OMRI-approved). We can't meter in accurate amounts organically, and the correction tends to be too slow, on the order of three years or more.

I would be using UMass as my lab. Costs about $10, I just wasn't sure the best route to gather my sample.

I'm fine with a slow fix as well. We intend to be here at this house a long time. Additionally, since I know it took a long time for the yard to get this bad, I know it will take a long time to get to a healthy state.

While I can read UMass, Logan gives a much better report. Plus UMass lost its accreditation.

If I'm the one reading it, I won't be able to do much with their trace element reporting.

For organic matter, slow fixes are the only thing you get, so it's good you're happy with that. :-) Mine's in the middle of year seven.

For most soil chemistry, slow fix isn't an option as it's impossible for the reader to target accurately. So soil test reports aren't fodder for the organic forum.

I don't believe UMass lost their accreditation (unless you can site source that shows otherwise), they have always just been a non-cetified lab. I don't think the decision to certify or not, has much of a reflection on performance, whereas losing an accreditation would indicate they have gone down the tubes, in terms of quality.

UMass has the oldest and one of the best Turf management programs in the country, so I feel very comfortable that they can cook some of my soil and conduct proper analysis without issue.

I was being kind. I've seen way too many irregularities in their testing to be completely comfortable with them.

They're certainly better than the average extension office, and worlds better than taking it to most local universities.

But I lost my confidence in them several years ago.

What "certification" is there for soil testing labs? Some state universities do "certify" labs for the residents of those particular states to use for soil testing but that has little to do with the labs ability to test. If Massachusetts were to "certify" soil testing labs it would be the
University of Massachusetts that would do that.
Using UMASS for the soil test for soil pH, Phosphorus, Potash, Calcium, Magnesium, etc. will allow jwhittin the opportunity to talk with his county horticulturist about the test results, something Logan Labs does not provide.
In addition to those soil tests jwhittin may want to use these simple soil tests,
1) Soil test for organic matter. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1 quart jar, with a tight fitting lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%) of organic matter on the top.

2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1 foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your soil drains’ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of organic matter to speed it up.

3) Tilth. Take a handful of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a finger that clump should fall apart.

4) Smell. What does your soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria will be and the nicer your soil will smell.

5) Life. How many earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5, according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that is not healthy.
to learn more about the soil.

To be honest, I wasn't aware of any type of specific accreditation or certifications, but had to double check when morpheuspa said they lost their accreditation. I would expect any type of certification would come from MDAR, but wasn't sure if Logan Labs was touting some type of federal level accreditation or something that local labs wouldn't have an interest in. I couldn't find anything to this point.

morpheuspa - Did UMass actually lose an accreditation (site sources) or just in your book?

Going back many years on this an other lawn care forums, Logan Labs was heavily pushed by specific users who were only willing to review result from their and/or Umass. I have seem many more wild irregularities displayed without explanation from Logan Labs than I have from Umass. I have seen many "theories" and "concerns" about one vs. the other, but no conclusive evidence to suggest that one is right and the other is wrong. If you have it, please provide.

If you have the option to go with a local, well trusted extension office, that does over 20,000 soil samples p/year... I would say go with the locals. They understand your soil and region. UMass specifically says they find if very difficult to provide accurate recommendations from "out of region" samples, due to variations in conditions across the country. I wouldn't recommend someone from the west cost or mid-west sending a soil sample all the way to Umass, but for those of us in the North East it makes much more sense.

>>I have seem many more wild irregularities displayed without explanation from Logan Labs than I have from Umass.

>>I have seen many "theories" and "concerns" about one vs. the other, but no conclusive evidence to suggest that one is right and the other is wrong. If you have it, please provide.

Right back atcha.

In terms of irregularities, I would have to go through hundreds of old forums posts to find the specific ones, which I'm not going to do.. but here is at least one that no one could explain Umass & Logan tests.

In terms of "theories" and "concerns". I do not have any evidence whatsoever to indicate that UMass is better/the same/or worse than Logan Labs. I really shouldn't have gotten into a pissing contest about irregularities in one lab vs. the other, but fell into it trying to defend UMass. In reality, I have no solid evidence to suggest either of the labs is not top notch. I have even recommended Logan Labs to users that do not have solid local extension offices (such as Cali), where they lost funding.

I'm not really arguing about which one is better. I had a problem with your statement that UMass lost it's accreditation. Which accreditation did they lose and when? I don't like to see unsupported statements about a quality local extension office.

This post was edited by SC77 on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 12:52