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okiedawn1

2011 Warm-Season Variety Grow List

Okiedawn OK Zone 7
13 years ago

This is not a final list by any stretch of the imagination because I don't even know what seeds I'll receive in the seed swap, so we can consider this the first attempt at the list.

It will look like a huge amount of varieties and it is, but I succession plant which means I can get several different sowings/growings in one bed during the long growing season that stretches from February through October or November. Also, even though it is a lot of varieties, in raised beds with highly enriched soil I plant everything pretty close together. For crops not grown in raised beds and with less well-improved soil, like corn and winter squash, I use more traditional wider spacing since crowding in those conditions reduces yields.

Also, you'll note an insanely long list of bean vareities. Because the grasshoppers ate many of our bean plants last year, we didn't get nearly as many beans last year as we normally do. So, I am feeling bean-starved and it shows. I plant many of these on the roughly 400 linear feet of 7'-tall fencing that surrounds our garden. That, along with a couple of long beds with bean trellises, gives me tons of space to grow plenty of beans.

CORN (SWEET):

Early Sunglow F-1

Black Aztec OP

Country Gentleman OP

Texas Honey June OP

BEANS, LIMA:

Dixie Speckled Butterpea

Christmas Pole

Willowleaf

Violet's Multicolor Butterbeans

King of the Garden

Jackson Wonder Bush

Willowleaf White

Henderson Bush

SNAP BEANS, BOTH POLE AND BUSH, MOST FOR FRESH EATING OR FREEZING AS GREEN BEANS AND SOME FOR SHELLIES:

Bush:

Speedy

Royal Burgundy

Merveille de Piemonte

Borlotto Lingua Di Fuoco

Marconi

Borlotto Di Vigevano

Dragon Tongue

Tanya's Pink Pod

Red Swan

Half-Runner Red Peanut

Pole:

Red-Striped Greasy

Rattlesnake

Blue Coco

Zelma Zesta

Genuine Cornfield

Trionfo Violetto

Meraviglia Di Venezia

Garafal Oro

Smeraldo

Cherokee Stripe

Signora Della Campagna

Emerite

Helda

Cherokee Trail of Tears

CUCUMBER, PICKLING (also used for slicing as I don't plant slicing types):

National Pickling Cucumber

Homemade Pickles

County Fair

H-19 Little Leaf

OKRA:

Stewart's Zeebest

Beck's Big Buck

Choppee

Little Lucy

PEPPER:

Sweet:

Yummy Orange

Yummy Mix

Gentle Giant Goliath

Sweet Goliath

Goliath Gold Rush

Goliath Griller

Gourmet

Hot:

Serrano Tampianqueno

Cajun Belle

Cayenne Blend

Fatali

Red Habanero

White Habanero

Mustard Habanero

Caribbean Red Habanero

Chichen Itza early Habanero

Peter Pepper

Jalapeno:

Early Jalapeno

Ixtapa

Mucho Nacho

Grande'

Chichimeca

Purple Jalapeno

Gigantia

Biker Billy

Goliath Jalapeno

For the Chocolate Garden:

Chocolate Mini Bell

Chocolate Bell

PUMPKIN:

Long Island Cheese

Seminole

Knucklehead

Goosebumps

SUMMER SQUASH:

Horn of Plenty

Early Prolific Straightneck

Cocozelle di Napoli

Golden Zucchini

Raven hybrid zuke

WINTER SQUASH:

I'm growing the following from a Franchi-Sementi Seeds Mixed Package called "Zucche In Miscuglio" that contains seeds of the following:

Zucca di Chioggia

Zucca Tonda Padana

Zucca Lunga Di Napoli

Zucca Berrettina Piancenti

Zucca Butternut Rugosa

Zucca Quintale Seme Giallo

Zucchette Tromba D'Albenga

Zucchette Serpente Di Sicilia

Zucchina Custard White

Zucchini Vegetable Spaghetti

MELONS/WATERMELONS:

Hale's Best Jumbo

Pike

Sugar Queen

Ambrosia

Galia

Blacktail Mountain

Yellow Doll

Yellow Baby

Shiny Boy

SOUTHERN PEAS:

Knuckle Purplehull

Pinkeye Purplehull

Six Week Purplehull

Big Red Ripper

Blue Goose

Kentucky Black Crowder

Ozark Razorback

White Whippoorwill

SWEET POTATO: I haven't decided which varieties yet. I'll either start some from sweet potatoes now in storage grown from Gary's trial varieties last year, or will order new slips from him this year, or both. My sweet potato planting area, which has sandier soil than the rest of my clay-challenged garden, is on the verge of getting too shady, so I need to make a new bed for these in an area where there is some sandier soil that still gets full sun.

TOMATOES: These are listed on an earlier thread that is tomato-specific, and all the cool-season crops are on their own thread from a few weeks ago.

I have added 5 or 6 more tomato varieties and need to go back and add those to the earlier list, and think I've added a few new lettuce varieties I need to go back and add to the cool-season thread.

So, that's the list I'm working from at the present time. I expect it will change somewhat, but it is more likely to get longer and not shorter.

I should emphasize that we are not in any sort of drought condition here in the southern portion of Love County at the present time (the only part of the state not showing "in color" on the drought map), so I am planning as though we'll have a normal, moist spring. If the drought conditions return to Love County, I'll start dropping some of the varieties and will plant somewhat less.

Does anyone else have their working list compiled yet?

Dawn

Comments (47)

  • elkwc
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dawn,
    A nice list. I have about finished my tomato list and have about all of the requests filled. Just need to seal them and get them mailed. I'm culling out older seeds and varieties I don't plan to grow in the next 2 years. Will do the same with all veggies. So will be offering lots of extra seeds shortly. Everything will be on hold for 2 days as I take my step dad to Wichita for a heart cath. Have made a first cut on my pepper list. I will post my semi final lists as soon as I get them cut down some more. Many of my pepper varieties will be from NMSU this year. We are still in a drought here. Been soaking the garden well and will be mulching everything except where the row crops will be soon. I wanted to let the ground freeze and thaw a few times before covering. It did once to the whole garden before I started the soaking and have had another deep freeze once since I started soaking. Still have a small area to soak. Hoping that moisture will arrive before the real growing season starts. Jay

  • tigerdawn
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I know for sure I'm growing sweet potatoes and a few tomato plants that follow me home from the swap in April.

    Other than that I'm looking at mostly strawberries, Eggplant (Fairy Tale), and Pattypan squash (Bennings Green Tint). I may plant some hubbards around them to distract SVB's. If that works better than all the other methods I've used I'll add more squash next year.

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  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Jay,

    You know, I've been watching the U S Drought Monitor map and that dark blob of worse drought conditions north of you is just a couple of counties away from your county. (Honestly, I would have thought y'all would already be in that category by now.)

    If our weather fortune reverses itself here in Marietta, and we slip into drought, you'll see me cutting and cutting my bean and winter squash list.

    Looking at the list of what I am planting is just agony because I start thinking of all the good varieties that are not on it and start trying to figure out how to squeeze them in.

    I hope the trip to Wichita with your stepdad is a safe one and that y'all don't have to drive through ice and snow. I also pray the heart cath goes well.

    I can't wait to see your list of NMSU varieties. I think I have liked every NMSU pepper I've ever grown and one of these years I'm going to have an NMSU pepepr garden with only their varieties in it.

    I'm going heavy on the habaneros so I can make more Habanero Gold this year with habs of many colors, and heavy on the jalapenos because Tim's and Chris's coworkers beg for them. If I am nice and share fresh ones with them, I have fewer jalapenos to can which means those same coworkers don't get Candied Jalapenos for Christmas. So, the obvious solution is to grow a whole lot more jalapenos. You might have noticed that for me "the obvious solution" to anything is to plant more and never to plant less. : )

    Tigerdawn, When attending the Spring Fling, it is hard to ignore those homeless little plants wagging their tails and pleading "take me home" with those big, sad puppy dog eyes, isn't it? Who can ignore a little plant that wants to be adopted and given a good home?

    This year I'm putting my squash under floating row covers to see if I can hold off the SVBs that way. If it wasn't for the SVBs, I'd grow about 50 kinds of summer and winter squash every year. I think I grew squash here from 2000 until about 2005 or 2006 before the SVBs found us, and it was so wonderful because I was able to experiment and grow so very many kinds every year. Once the SVBs find you, though, they never really leave. The SVBs probably aggravate me more than just about anything else except for grasshoppers, stinkbugs and leaf-footed bugs.

    Forget about finding a cure for the common cold, I just want the scientists to find a cure for SVBs.


    Dawn

    Here is a link that might be useful: Jay's Drought Map

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I just can't keep up. I was just about to post my first tomato grow list when you posted your final. I then held off because of the swap and trades. I spent this morning reworking my cool weather crop area on graph paper so I could maximize the space. Then I saw your review on sweet potatoes and went off to order from Gary. Now you are asking about warm crops?

    Nevermind the Tomato Queen Crown. I'm getting you a black and white checkered jacket that says "Pace Car" across the back.

    I'm going to need more caffeine......

  • tigerdawn
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I think the floating row covers are next for me. Winter and summer squashes are some of my favorite things to eat. I am determined to be successful with them!! SVBs found me the very first year. There's another long time gardener in our neighborhood so I figure that's where they came from.

  • owiebrain
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I'll go fix another cup of coffee in support of seedmama. I'm not even going to pretend to figure out any further grow lists until the swap loot arrives. Nuh-uh. Not gonna and you can't make me. Phhbbtt.

    Diane

  • mksmth zone 7a Tulsa Oklahoma
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    dawn

    I would love to see an over head pic of you garden, it has to be huge, LOL.

  • carsons_mimi
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    In addition to the great barrier reef, I bet Dawn's garden can be seen by NASA's shuttle crew.

    *grin*

  • biradarcm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thank you Dawn for another interesting thread, WOW! so many choices for warm season crops as well. I guess there must be some colorful varieties in your list. I am eagerly waiting for seed swap packet to arrive, then look online for other colorful crops.

    I too love to see aerial view of your garden, I am sure it must be huge and beautiful. If you send me your home location (email), I can dig out my image server for aerial photos and high resolution satellite pics. I have NAIP's 1-m images acquired last May, also few other images from Quikbird and Ikonos... I agree with mimi that your garden can be seen by NASA's shuttle crew.

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Chandra,

    I do hope you'll wait for Dawn's permission before posting a pic. If it were me, I would view that as a huge violation of my privacy, and would be angry beyond words.

    Seedmama

  • biradarcm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Seedmama, of course, I would not even dare to post pics without consent and her permission... secondly my intention was to share images with Dawn only, that's why I mentioned "email". I just thought its nice to see garden from the space. Indeed I used one of the such image to draw my garden layout.

    Sorry seedmama/Dawn, my intention about satellite images was not to hurt you or anyone in this great forum. Definitely not want to violate anything here... It looks like I am addicted to read every posts and often trying to pen my views here and there, I think I should limit myself to just reading until I properly understand the protocols of posting in this open forum. I appreciate and thank you for sending me warning signals, Have a nice day -Chandra

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Chandra,

    My garden isn't huge and beautiful because you have to work with the land you've got and what I've got is mostly forested land in a sloping creek hollow. The garden is carved out of sloping land in a creek hollow with trees, ponds, a driveway, etc. closing in on all sides. It is most unbeautiful right now with all the dead plants I left in some beds to provide seeds and shelters for the wild birds.

    I'd prefer no one ever EVER post a photo of my property, home, garden, etc. and would consider it a gross violation of our privacy for very specific, compelling reasons.

    I've always skirted the photo issue by saying I can't use a camera, don't know how to post photos and never have a camera handy because DS and DH always have our cameras at the fire station or on a fire truck, etc. which is 100% true.

    However, there is one more important reason that I have never mentioned before and never will mention again because it could have an opposite effect than intended. My spouse works in law enforcement and has for over 30 years. Upon occasion, in his job you put people in jail and later in prison who threaten to come back and harm you and your family, burn down your house, etc. While that kind of talk is generally an empty threat, sometimes those sort of people with criminal inclinations will act upon those threats. Anything posted here that might identify precisely where we are could help someone like that find our home and us. So, it is likely no one will ever see me post a photo of anything and no one else should ever violate our privacy by doing that. This is a particular concern to me because our garden is visible from the roadway so if someone knew what our garden looked like and could find it, they could find us.

    I'm not trying to be overly dramatic, but this is the reason I don't do photos and won't do photos and won't let anyone else take and post photos of our property. It is a safety issue for our family and I suppose that, because of DH's career, that will never change.

    Sorry to disappoint you, but in our particular situation, photos are a big no-no.

    Thanks, Seedmama, for speaking up. I appreciate knowing that you've got my back.

    Dawn

  • biradarcm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dawn, I completely agree with you and respect your views and thoughts. Thank you-Chandra

  • susanlynne48
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    What is up with you people?

    I'm offended you would react that way....

    Susan

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Chandra,

    We're cool. I just wanted to explain why it is a serious issue for me.

    Susan,

    I hope you're joking. If you aren't, I can only assume you've never been stalked or never had your identity stolen, or you would understand. Go back and ready my reasons over again. This is a very real safety issue for my family.

    Dawn

  • soonergrandmom
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I so wanted to tell joellen to please remove her children's picture from the other thread, but was afraid I would upset someone. Eventhough you can't see their faces, I wouldn't want that picture on some pedifiles desktop.

    The second I saw it my mind went back to a man a foot taller than I who was being charged with a crime against a very young girl. He told me, "I just never grew up." I am careful not to do anything to feed their desires. Sometimes we just have to face the fact that it can be a sick world.

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Amen, Carol!!! Hopefully none of us said anything that would show up in an internet search about them... (ugh...now I'm worrying..did I? I don't think so...but?)

    Dawn - I totally agree with you and unfortunately, we sometimes forget that we are open to public viewing here on the forum. (DUH!!! We can all laugh at my faux paux last year....but it wasn't funny at the time! I learned a very valuable lesson.) And I think you handled things with dignity & grace for all concerned.

    I see no reason why ANYONE should be offended by any of the responses to Chandra's request. We should all be respectful and help gaurd each other. Like Carol said, "we just have to face the fact that it can be a sick world."

    We can always hope that if someone stumbles by here with a sinister intent....maybe they'll accidently take up an interest in gardening.

  • susanlynne48
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Yes, I was serious. And, shocked, totally shocked. And yes, I was married to a defense lawyer with the very same issues you talk about from the other side, Dawn - unhappy clients, especially the criminals. And yes, I have been stalked, and yes, I had my identity stolen over the Internet one time. I've always worked in law firms or for government agencies, and there were often threats made to lawyers, and sometimes to staff, that were frightening. And yes, I was blatantly attacked by a man in the supermarket one time, which was also a frightening ordeal. But I don't allow those things to consume my life with paranoia. Except for a moment in time, I just refused to allow it to make me a victim. Different coping skills, I guess.

    I just don't think the responses were in any way, shape, or form, appropriately addressed to Chandra. He was very apologetic, and I do hope he comes back here. Maybe a private email would have been better.

    You know, that didn't even cross my mind when JoEllen posted, Carol.

    Suddenly, warm season vegetables don't sound so good.....

    Susan

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Susanlynne - as I said in my earlier post. We should all learn to be careful and guard EACH OTHER. I don't want to offend...but I'm honest to a fault..so here goes....

    There's was no reason for a statement of "Suddenly, warm season vegetables don't sound so good.....". IMO - that is totally uncalled for. NO ONE tried to manipulate Chandra in that way. If you want to have a group of friends that support your desire to garden warm season vegetables, this is one of the most informative and friendly bunch of folks you could hope to find.

    I hope Chandra is not gone for good, and I don't think he is. I think he's just stepping back a bit and learning...just like I did last year when I put my own neck on the "chopping block". Also, some of us check in here way more often than we check our personal e-mails so this was possibly the fastest way to head off problems.

    I too have for many, MANY years worked for law-firms and still do. I've watched for years as security increased after innocent people were murdered during depositions. I have been the victim of blood and broken bones due to domestic violence in my younger years (NO!!! NOT MY WONDERFUL DH!! I was young and dumb back in the day!) I've been a single woman and stalked. I've been robbed in my own home, and experienced other violence. I was on base at the FAA the day of 9-11 and left all too willingly when we were evacuted. I too don't dwell and constantly operate in the mind-set as a "victim"...but I am aware...and I try to be more careful about putting myself in harms way in this crazy world that no one can predict. I'm sure that Chandra wants the same safety for his family as Dawn and others want for theirs (you and I included).

    I hope there are no hard feelings. I'd jump to your defense just as fast if I thought someone on here had mis-understood you. After all...we ALL try to help each other out in whatever way we can. That's what makes us a "community".

    Hope you stick with us and bring us even more butterfly guidance! I know I've learned from you.

    Paula

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I'm still compiling my list of warm season veggies. Some of you may remember I was extremely "okra" challenged last year, so I've promised Seedmama I will try her method of germination this year.

    To that end, I intend to grow Cowhorn again this year. I liked that I could miss a pod or two and it was still tender when I finally found it. Have any of you ever tried a seed offered by Bakers Creek this year called Harlow's Homested? It's touted as being very drought tolerant, which I'm thinkin' I'm gonna need all the help I can get in that area this year.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Susan,

    Sincd the issue was raised here, it was addressed here. Enough said.

    I will never apologize to anyone for trying to protect my privacy or my family's privacy. If that offends someone, that's too bad.

    Dawn

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I made an "I" statement reflecting my views. That statement did not include accusations or personal attacks.
    Dawn made an "I" statement reflecting her views. It did not include accusations or personal attacks.
    Chandra made an "I" statement which did not include accusations or personal attacks. Furthermore, he included a heartfelt apology and expressed an open-minded interest in learning from this experience.

    When three adults can express their respective views with civililty and respect for each other, it truly disheartens me to see personal attacks and sarcasm contaminate the discourse.

    Seedmama

  • lat0403
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Wow. There's a whole lot of overreaction in here. On all sides. And that's all I have to say about that.

    Anyway...I still have no idea what I'm going to plant this year. I'm trying to find restraint because I really don't have enough room to plant everything I'd like to plant. I need to force myself to be conservative because it's better to end up with extra space than extra plants.

    Wait, I lied, that's not all I have to say. Susan, I hope this situation doesn't make you leave. I saw that you backed out of the seed swap and I hope you'll reconsider. It was nice of you to stand up for Chandra and it's exactly the type of response that I would expect in a "community" like this.

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    It is not an overreaction to want to protect your privacy. Garden Web is, in fact, set up to make it easy for us to do that by allowing each of us to choose how much private info to make public or not make public.

    No one here knows which person here on this forum may have been a victim of a serious crime in the past and therefore prefers not to disclose their location in a public manner. That shouldn't be so hard to understand. We all should be willing to respect one another's privacy even if we have differing levels of privacy that are important to each of us.

    If I wanted my location disclosed or photos of it displayed, I'd get my computer savvy son to take photos and post them...and I haven't, so that's a clue.

    Chandra and I are fine and not upset with each other, so I wish everyone else would just drop it please.

    Dawn

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Seedmama, I was afraid you'd fuss at me for pushing you to move on from the cool season list to the warm season list by posting my list, but you know....spring's approaching and we've got to get ready!

    I'm glad you're making room for some of Gary's heirloom sweet potato varieties. It is so cool to grow the different kinds. Most years I only have 1 of 2 varieties of SPs in the ground. This year, at SP-digging time, it was just amazing to dig up the diverse crop in so many sizes, shapes and colors. Nothing else can match their gorgeous foliage too.

    Tigerdawn, They found you the very first year? That is so not fair at all. I do bet your neighbor's garden was a "gateway" that led them to you. I'm about to reach the conclusion that you can't grow many squash types here without floating row covers, although they've never bothered Seminole in my garden.

    Between the deer and the SVBs, my days of growing 30 types of squashes a year are long gone, but before the deer found the unfenced squash patch and the SVBs descended upon it, I had a few great squash years. Some of the winter squash from those years stored for a year before degrading. It was amazing.

    We have a native squash (inedible to humans) here, so I don't think anyone escapes SVBs for long. On the other hand, I don't know that I've ever seen the SVBs on the native squashes.

    Diane, I did my list before the swap seeds arrive on purpose because I wanted to have a "plan" worked out in my head so I wouldn't completely lose control (and whatever is left of my mind) when the swap packets from Carol arrive.

    Working on the list may not have been a good idea, because going through all those packets and choosing "this one" and putting aside "that one" for next year gave me the worst case of planting fever ever. I haven't sown a single seed yet, but that doesn't mean I haven't been fighing the urge to start seeds NOW.

    mksmith, Well as you obviously know by now I don't post photos for personal reasons and I am sorry if that disappoints you.

    My main garden isn't really that big---roughly 100' x 100' but not exactly, because it bends and curves as it is squeezed into a tight area with woodland closing in on two sides, a driveway on the third side, and fence (not the actual garden fence but an old cow pasture fence) and pond on the fourth side.

    The main garden does have a lot of raised beds that are planted biointensively, loosely following John Jeavon's recommended planting spaces for most items. To squeeze more plants into the available space, I grow everything I can on trellises so the plants take up space in the air more so than on the ground.

    In my garden, the following crops are grown on trellises, the garden fence and tomato cages (I have about 300 of them, having given away a lot because I used to have 400): pole beans (snap and lima), pole snap peas, vining cucumbers, vining melons of all kinds, including mini-watermelons, vining peas, vining winter squash, tomatoes (obviously in cages, not on trellises), and even pepper plants have small cages to keep them upright to they don't sprawl or fall over when holding a heavy load of peppers.

    You also can squeeze in more than one crop in the space normally used for one crop. For example, I plant some pumpkins and winter squash plants on the edges of the rows of corn. By the time the corn is done and is harvested, the pumpkins and squash take over the area. I used to grow beans on the cornstalks, but found myself stepping on the squash plants too much while picking beans, so now grow beans on the adjacent fence.

    You also can squeeze even more into your beds by squeezing plant that produce above ground into beds with crops that produce below ground as root crops, like interplanting lettuce crops with carrots. The leafy lettuces produce more quickly and I pull them up, leaving more space for the growing and maturing carrots. You also can interplant radishes with carrots. The radishes finish up quickly, leaving more space for the slower-growing carrots. You also can interplant beets and sweet corn, or beets, bush beans and corn together in one bed, using the spacing recommendations of biointensive gardening guru John Jeavons, whose book (linked below) is my gardening bible.

    I also have a lot of containers (aiming for 150 this year) and three other growing areas outside the main fenced garden, and hope to add a 4th auxiliary area this year. I'm also prone to sticking pretty edibles into my beds of ornamentals.

    Finally, I do very serious succession planting, with it being my goal that once an entire crop is harvested and out of the ground (like, for example, the broccoli harvested in May) then the succession crop goes into the ground the very same day the harvest of the earlier crop is completed. In the case of the garden bed used for broccoli, I usually put southern peas like pinkeye purplehull peas into the ground in the afternoon or evening, after harvesting all the broccoli in the morning. The pea plants are usually 3 to 4" inches tall and planted in plantable pots, so I can quickly plop them into the ground, water, mulch, and move on to something else. Using transplants like that, I can be harvesting pinkeye purplehll peas about 5 weeks after the plants are put into the ground to replace the broccoli.

    My entire garden is planted that way...the day one crop comes out, the next one goes in. Upon occasion, I have yanked "slow" cool-season plants that aren't producing well and replaced them with warm-season crops as the heat approaches. That strategy is used when it is apparent a cool-season crop isn't going to produce much more due to the ever-warmer daytime high temps.

    One thing you won't see in my garden is bare ground when the garden is up and growing. All the ground is covered by mulch, or by plants carefully spaced so the grow together in a bed, leaving no soil visible. By shading the ground that way, the plants are basically their own living mulch.

    By using all those techniques, I get a huge harvest compared to similar gardens that have one crop planted in spring and never plant a succession crop. Also, while more traditional gardens have narrow rows of crops with wide paths, I have wide rows of crops with narrow paths.

    Lynn, That's too funny. If they see it in summer, I hope it doesn't make them long too much for a juicy home-grown tomato, since I'm betting they don't have those up in space. If they can see it, they're likely saying 'look at that big old overgrown mess of a garden' because, I will admit, it looks like a jungle by late June.

    Mine is not a well-behaved garden where everything stays in its proper place. In fact, nothing stays where it belongs. The Seminole pumpkins like to run up and down pathways, climb tomato cages, climb the garden fence and then make their way up into the adjacent trees. In late summer or early fall, the sight of small pumpkins hanging from vines up in the trees sometimes stops traffic as people try to figure out what is growing in the pecan trees that looks bigger than a pecan. The southern peas, whether they are bush types or running types, all love to go across the pathways and try to take over adjacent beds. The tomato plants rudely jostle one another and fight for space. It is madness and chaos and I love it. Plus, with a jungle like that, even if the rattlesnakes and copperheads are visiting, I am unlikely to see them. I know they are there and I watch out for them, but as long as they don't bite me, I'd rather not even see them.

    Last year, the sweet potatoes climbed the fence, the garden arbor, several small trees and even grew into a perennial bed outside the garden, burying four o'clock plants under the gorgeous sweet potato foliage.

    The best description of my garden would be "out of control", and that would be a kind description by a garden lover. I'm not sure what a control freak type who desires perfect rows of well-behaved, perfectly spaced and perfectly uniform veggie plants would think if they saw my Jungle in the summer months. Likely, they'd be horrified by the madness of it all.

    P-Mac, I think Seedmama's method of seed-starting should work just fine for you. As dry as you are there, it likely would pay off to sprout all you can using the baggie method. It would be even better if rain would start falling on your garden between now and planting season so the garden won't have to struggle with drought from the very beginning.

    If y'all remain in drought from now through planting time, it is likely your 'warm season crops' will be 'hot season crops' from the moment they go into the ground. Whenever we have drought in spring in my location, it seems like we're not only drier than usual but also warmer than usual very early in spring.

    Dawn

    Here is a link that might be useful: Book

  • mksmth zone 7a Tulsa Oklahoma
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    dawn

    I would never be upset or disappointed for some trying to protect their privacy, especially on the internet. I feel terrible because I in a round about way started this whole thing. For that I am sorry!!

    anyways back to gardening!!!

    Mike

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Mike,

    I feel bad the whole thing blew up out of control after Seedmama, Chandra and I had settled it between us. I greatly appreciated Seedmama's efforts to nip it in the bud and Chandra's willingness to say "oops".

    It isn't your fault. Things happen. Sometimes words get mininterpreted because with the written word, a person can't pick up on subtle nuances like they would in a verbal conversation that might indicate humor vs. sarcasm or whatever.

    Back to gardening is a suggestion with which I heartily agree, but I wanted to assure you that nothing that happened or that was said is your fault in any way.

    Dawn

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dawn - where did you find your Whipporwill Seeds? Does anyone have any suggestions? Baker's Creek is out. Guess I took too long to make up my mind. I've also tried Riemer's, Wilhite's and several others.

    Since Baker's Creek was out of the Whipporwill, I "had" to order a different okra...as well as Yellow Mortgage Lifter tomatoe. I know...I should wait for the Seed Swap packets to arrive...but if I just keep buying seed I'm therefore too busy to plant any of it!!!

    Paula

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Paula,

    I don't remember if my source was Baker Creek or if it was Southern Exposure Seed Exchange, but I know I only had a partial pack when I was making my list of what to plant, so I think I might have sent a seed swap packet of Whippoorwill to Carol. You might send her an SOS to see if she can slip it into your envelope if I did send her one.

    Otherwise, Southern Exposure doesn't usually start selling out of stuff until March or April, so they probably still have it in stock. Of course, the danger of going to SESE's website is that once you're there, you can't buy "just one" packet. Well, some people probably could, but I can't.


    Dawn

    Here is a link that might be useful: Southern Exposure Seed Exchange

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dawn,

    I am actually stalled out in planning, because of a wonderful, new, promising development. My husband has built an 8 foot wide bridge across the creek. My vegetable gardening on this side of the creek has always been limited by the number of trees we left when we built. I work around it, making the best of what I've got. The land on the other side of the creek is full sun.

    He honestly thought that by finishing the bridge this weekend I would be able to plant over there this year. My sense of time runs different from his, so I'm not so sure. The land has not been brushhogged in 11 years. Mostly, it is still manageable, but there are some trees, all less than 10 years old that will need to be cleared. I will do a one-time till, then will need to fence it in. By the time I haul enough mulch over to adequately suppress weeds, I can't imagine being ready to plant, successfully anyway, in it this year. The plan doesn't even factor in getting water over there. You know how busy my non-gardening life is, so I'm afraid to get my hopes up. I am dreaming of an expanded quantity of beans, squash, cukes, okra, peas, melons and pumpkins, but I know myself well enough to know the first thing I'll put in will be more tomatoes and peppers. I've already designated space on this side of the creek for my order of sweet potatoes. I gave Gary specific criteria, then asked him to pick for me. I can't wait to see what I get. I think I'll follow your lead and put more peppers in 5 gallon buckets. Whether I want to or nor, I'll be growing tomatillos again this year. I guess I don't have to explain that. By the end of last summer I already had volunteer sprouts a long distance from where I had planted them for the very first time at the beginning of summer. Tomatillos may be my new nemesis.

    So first things first. I'm going to see what Santa sends me. I suspect that will really get my patookus in gear. Next, I'll use graph paper as a nightly soporific.

    Life is funny. I seem to do very well with carrots and sweet potatoes, which seem to give so many people fits. On the other hand, I've not had a remarkable bean crop in two years and cucumbers don't want to live here. Those are supposed to be on the easy list. I attribute the success to excessively sandy soil, and mark up the failures to an opportunity to try again next year. At least I've gotten enough beans to save seeds. The land I garden in has never been gardened or cropped before, at least not since the late 1800's. I'm going to innoculate my beans this year and see where that gets me.

    For those following along, I don't start okra in coffee filters and baggies, but rather outside in bathroom cups. (Will I ever stop calling them Dixie Riddle Cups? Probably not.) I slide a flat of bathroom cups loosely into a trash sack and let mother nature's heat tell me when the time is right to sprout. The very minute they sprout, I put the entire plug in the ground and do not wait for either cotyledons or true leaves to form. On peak sprouting days, I transplant twice a day.

    I do use coffee filters and baggies for things I am going to start inside. I've not started cool weather crops this way before, but plan to this year.

    Pmac, is Whipporwill the hull that makes apple flavored jelly? If so, I'm going to show up on your door step the week of my birthday, and ask directly for a jar.

    Seedmama

  • owiebrain
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Oh, good Lord, seedmama, here we go again. I, too, am waiting on hubby to build me a bridge across our creek. It's all full sun over there, completely open and unclaimed as yet by piles of crap. At least I've got a lot of sunny land on this side of the creek to keep me busy until then. But I can see having to shift the nagging into high gear a couple of years down the road.

    Diane

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Diane,

    I could tell you weren't convinced the first time I told you we were living parallel lives, but it's almost comical now.

    I still owe you pics and narrative on the produce stand. I'll add pics of the bridge to that as well.

    I am very proud of hubby's resourcefulness on this one. I had years ago given up on anything but a dream for a bridge. I had priced prefab bridges on the internet, and I could have purchased a new car with leather for what people were asking. Hubby can weld, but I can't, and his time is stretched so thin anyway. The cost on the finished project was about what one night in a nice hotel would cost. I was so surprised at Christmas when he went to the scrapyard and came back with the beginnings. Plus there are lots of projects that get started around here but never finished. It's no one's fault; I've just come to accept that as the way things are. The fact that this thing is now finished and usable is a reminder of why we should never stop dreaming.

  • soonergrandmom
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Paula - I don't know if I saw your interested posted earlier or if I was inspired, but they were already in you box.

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Carol!!! WHOPPEEEE!!! YEA!!! I'm doin' the HAPPY DANCE!!! I found some on the internet today, but the shipping was more than the seeds! I almost got them anyway....but instead bookmarked it, telling myself if I still felt that "desperate" for them tomorrow, I'd order so THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!! And you too Dawn!!!

    Seedmama - these are a quickly disappearing Southern Pea. From what research I've done, they were a staple in the Southern diet as far back as the Civil War. These peas have a honey flavored jelly from the hulls. The apple flavor you're thinking of is from Lady Peas...which were shipped to me yesterday. I'll have all three peas and flavors in my garden this year (including the purple hulls)!! I've read if you mix all three, the jelly flavor is like plum...but uh....we don't need any plum jelly, do we? ha!

    Thanks again, buddies! You guys are the best!

    Paula

  • owiebrain
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "Plus there are lots of projects that get started around here but never finished. It's no one's fault; I've just come to accept that as the way things are."

    Amen, sister. Amen.

    Can't wait to see the pics!

    Diane

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Paula, We should have known Psychic Carol already had it covered.

    Carol, Here we are back at that sister thing again. It is understandable you'd read my mind about the Whippoorwil seeds since you are my sister and we are so alike. : )

    Seedmama,

    I am so far behind on everything because I went down to DFW for a few hours and played today, but I wanted to make sure I came back and commented on the bridge. Yippee! A bridge!

    I think the bridge across the creek sounds wonderful. I know that if your DH designed it and planted it, it undoubtedly is beautiful and well-made.

    Even though the plot on the other side of the creek might not be ready for full-scale veggie gardening this year, there are a couple of other things you could try.

    You could do minimal clearing this year, and plant one of the green manure/cover crops that can be allowed to grow however it can with natural rainfall this year and no tending or fussing, and then cut it down in the fall and let it decompose, or dig or rototill it into the ground.

    You could grow corn. George has mentioned before that he often uses corn in new ground the first year after the ground is broken. In his case, he sows it thickly so it will crowd out bermuda and weeds. Or, you could grow cowpeas. They do pretty well on no irrigation most years and are great at enriching soil. Or, you could grow herbs.

    As a bonus, you might have an opportunity to see how much the deer, rabbits and such are inclined to visit the new garden plot which I am assuming you may not have time to get fenced in before planting time? Maybe because it is new they won't notice it or bother it.....unless they think the bridge across the creek was put in for their convenience.

    In the early years when my garden fence was only 3.5' high, it technically kept the deer out, but they would lean over the fence and eat all the hollyhocks and okra. So, for the new unfenced plot, I wouldn't suggest planting okra or hollyhocks. Once the deer eventually began jumping the fence into the garden, which I think was around 2006 or 2007, they ate the following: sunflowers (stalks, flowerheads, leaves...everything but the roots), tomato plants and peppers (right down to the ground), pumpkin plants (big old coarse leaves and vines and all), squash (same as pumpkins), bean plants, pea plants, and most of the flowers.

    They didn't eat many of the herbs, although I think they ate the dill. They also didn't eat the wildflowers like the Oriental poppies and they didn't eat the larkspur, bluebonnets or yarow.

    Anything you plant in that plot this year, if unfenced, would be experimental, but anything that grows there could be used for soil improvement after the plants die. Of course, I'm assuming the soil needs some organic matter added to it. Maybe it is perfect soil and needs nothing.

    Ladies, I'm getting the feeling some of y'all are becoming addicted to the entire family of southern pea hull jelly. How in the world did that happen? Wonder what new things we'll delve into in 2011?

    All I have to say about projects that get started and never seem to get finished is that it is the story of my life. Are y'all trying to tell me we're supposed to eventually finish what we start? Uh Oh! It is a good thing no one is giving us report cards with grades based on finishing projects because it takes us about 100 years to finish anything we start.

    Dawn

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Um....Ms. Dawn- I do believe it was you who spearheaded this movement to southern pea hull jelly!!! Myyyy lands, ma'am! Don't you remembah that thread? "Why, Paula. If you had asked what to do with all those hulls, I would have said...make purple hull jelly!" I remember it like it was yesterdahhy....

    My warm season crops this year...so far...will be:

    Okra - (3 kinds again, 2 new to me)
    cukes - 2 kinds
    southern peas - THREE KINDS!
    Sugar Baby watermelons
    Ambrosia muskmelons
    green beans
    Yellow summer squash (2 plants maximum)
    Zuchinni - (again 2 plants maximum)
    and way too many tomatoes & peppers

    I took a tour of the flower beds tonite to decide which ornamental shrubs could be moved to make more edible landscaping space. I'm also re-landscaping the pool area to allow for additional tomatoes. Diane was right....someone might need immediate nourishment before climbing out of the water and making the hike to the house!

    Paula

  • soonergrandmom
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    This time on your side Paula and I do remember that conversation from the jelly making machine in Love county. LOL

    Just what kinds of okra do you plan to try? Are you sure?

  • owiebrain
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Atta girl, Paula!

    One of the first things I did when we bought this house was dig out the ornamental shrubs along the front of the house and sidewalk to Freecycle them. I now have part of it planted in walking onions, garlic, sunchokes, and perimmons & elderberries -- just a seedling nursery for those last two so I can keep an eye on them, then will move them elsewhere. The other parts of those "flower" beds not yet planted will be for cherry tomatoes, ground cherries, and whatever else strikes my fancy.

    I really am trying to do a bit more decorative plantings for my girls but dang if I'm going to waste such convenient, sunny beds solely on flowers!

    Diane

  • joellenh
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Just wanted to address the picture (my pics) issue really quickly. I have often been accused of over-sharing on the internet. I live on a corner lot, so anyone who frequents this forum could probably drive by and recognize my garden. If a pedophile is lurking here, they could see my kids and perhaps figure out where I live. That does concern me somewhat, but I watch my kids like a hawk, and I think that a true pedophile has many more extensive and disgusting sources of phtos than my baby butt garden pics. I can't help but share pics of my garden and my kids, they are my biggest sources of pride and I just love to share. I know I am naive but I feel in my heart that most if not all gardeners are good folks. I trust this forum and I feel safe here.

    As for my grow list: I am going to try to grow Nematode Resistant plants when possible. I am scaling back this year as far as varieties for this reason.

    I am currently on a seed hunt for:
    Pole Beans: Poamoho or Alabama No 1
    Bush Beans Monoa Wonder or Harvester
    Lima Bean Nemagreen
    Bell pepper charleston belle or carolina wonder
    Wando Peas
    My herbs, lettuces, spinach etc don't seem affected by RKN so I will again grow tons of them.
    I hope to grow around 20 Nematode resistant tomatoes (assorted).

    I cannot find any nematode resistant cucs, squash, or soybeans, so I am unsure what I will do for those or if I will just skip them this year.

    I'd also love to grow carrots and beets but last year both were a complete failure (tiny stunted crop).

    Jo

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Jo,

    Last year Home Depot had Wando Peas.

    Seedmama

  • p_mac
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    And I saw California Wonder seeds on the Ferry-Morse rack at Atwoods last Sunday. Right now, they've got those 40% off - so I snarfed up some Rio Grande Roma's and Dame's Rocket while I could get them.

    Jo - what RKN resistant toms are you growing???

  • joellenh
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Tomatoes:
    Better Boy
    Celebrity
    Lemon Boy
    abraham Lincoln
    superweet 100

    Maybe Some Neemareds if Gary lets me trial them.

    Jo

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Well, of course, I know I got y'all started on the purplehull pinkeye jelly making experience! That discussion was a "seed" I know that I planted here. Then, it sprouted and grew and now y'all are looking to grow every other southern pea that might make a good jelly. Lady peas. Zipper peas. Where does the madness end? I think I see a pea addiction in its earliest stages. Or maybe it is just a jelly-making addiction that is taking root.

    Now my brain is hard at work trying to figure out what sort of oddball jelly I can talk y'all into making next. You know, one that is really good is the one made from the fruit of the prickly pear cactus. Or we could make Spiced Tomato Jam this year since all of us grow tomatoes.

    Got corn in summer? There's always corncob jelly. Or Rosemary Red Onion Jelly. Quince Jam. Mint Jelly. We can go pretty far off 'the beaten path' and make some pretty usual jellies, but it might be hard to top Purplehull Pea Jelly.

    Dawn

  • seedmama
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    If I could get my hands on a good sized batch of Possum grapes, I'd be satisfied. Paula's already provided me with plums, and I've asked her for hull jelly for my birthday. Dawn inspired me to put up so many habaneros for jelly I may have to buy a new freezer. I'd call it good there. But someone will bring a jar of something to the fling that will get something rolling. I'll be weak and cave. I can live in denial, but I know how it works.

    Seedmama

  • biradarcm
    12 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Bump! Anyone starting Warm-Season crops indoor?

  • Okiedawn OK Zone 7
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Not me.

    Other than tomatoes, eggplants and peppers that need to grow for a substantial period of time indoors before being transplanted, it is to early to start any warm season plants indoors. Most others, if not direct seeded, only need to grow indoors a few days before being set out into the garden.

    If you start warm-season veggies, herbs or flowers too early, they'll quickly get too big for the light shelf, or they'll become rootbound before you can transplant them out.

    We have frost in our forecast for tomorrow morning and with the nights still staying so cold, I'm not in any hurry to get warm-season plants started. I generally don't transplant warm-season plants until a couple of weeks after my last frost date, because even on the last frost date, there's still a 50% chance of frost. I used to plant earlier, but covering up hundreds of plants on every potentially frosty or freezing night is too time-consuming.