I planted some in a part-shade area and in a few years they got too wide for the area -- maybe around 10' wide or so. I tried to dig out the ends and transplant them to a sunny slope (and discard the main plant), but the roots were tiny and not much of them made it planted late in the year. I bought another 2 last year. This year they are still shrubby looking. Probably next year they will start spreading their "wings" and taking over the hill. I will look for a pic of them, but I think I don't have any. In their part-shade location they did not get good color. They were so much more colorful in fall last year in the sunny location.

fear your success .. lol but lets be real here.. why do you want to save the monster??? you are just going to be beating it back with a stick in a year or two ... sooner or later its going to be just too much work ... so why not be done with it now ... ya know.. you dont have to have every plant????? ken

Hi Iktaku, Welcome to RMG! Ok! Youre getting lots of recommendations for shrubby stuff, but IÂm a FLOWER person, so IÂm gonna recommend some flowers that would work! I donÂt know if these are "English garden" flowers or not! Every time I hear somebody talking about an English garden, or showing pictures of one, theyÂre always different, so IÂve come to the conclusion that everybody has their own idea of what an English garden should look like! To me, most of these are flowers that would look good in a "woodland" type of setting. Just my opinion, guys! I know everybody has a different idea about that too! So here are some suggestions from a Flower PersonÂwhatever you decide to call the garden! I second the Anemone sylvestris! They look wonderfully "natural" and are also great cut flowers! (IÂll post thumbnails, and you can click to enlarge any you want to see!) I also second putting in a variety of spring bulbs. Daffodils, grape hyacinths, species tulips and the really early smaller onesÂGalanthus/snowdrops, Chionodoxa/glory-of-the-snow, and more! And the species crocus have a very native/natural look. I think patches of lily-of-the-valley would look good along with forget-me-nots and some Saxifraga/saxifrage. Forget-me-nots reseed freely and wind up "very" natural looking. After they start producing seed, I just pull out the current yearÂs batch, and the following year there are even more! And little violas or Johnny-jump-upsÂwhich also reseed freely, would add color. All in this pic except the lily-of-the-valley. ThereÂs also false forget-me-not, Brunnera macrophylla. And thereÂs a variety called ÂLooking Glass that has white leaves, which is wonderful to lighten up shade. I got one at last yearÂs fall swap, and itÂs not big enough yet to have a decent picture, but I LOVE it! ItÂs blooming for the first time now! Hardy cyclamen also have a great woodsy look. The first one, Cyclamen hederifolium is summer dormant, so thereÂs no foliage over summer, but it blooms in late summer, and then gets wonderful two-tone green leaves right after it starts bloomingÂand keeps them all winter! The pink one is Cyclamen purpurascens, which keeps its leaves all summer! For some brighter color thereÂs coral bells, Heuchera sanguineaÂbloom most of the summer if you keep them deadheaded. ÂFirefly is the reddest one that I know of. And Geranium sanguinea would work in any of your light conditions, and with the right conditions the leaves turn red in fall. My sanguineaÂfrom a swapÂisnÂt big enough yet for a picture, but I also have Geranium dalmaticum ÂCompact RoseÂ, and there are lots of other species of geraniums. A somewhat unusual one is Geranium renardii, which has a real thick, leathery looking leaf. Then thereÂs the blue Rocky Mountain columbine, Aquilegia caerulea, and lupines come in a variety of colors and heights, and in the sunnier spots, Iceland poppies would add some bright color. ThereÂs pasque flowersÂPulsatilla vulgaris is the most common, but thereÂs also P. patens, Rocky Mountain Pasque flower (just one of its common names), and some other species. They get pretty, silvery seed heads when theyÂre done bloomingÂmine looks great this year, but I havenÂt had time to download the seed head pics yet! There are a bunch of different species of primrosesÂthe most common is Primula vulgaris, but there are lots of others that have a more "wild" look. I also have drumstick primrose, Primula denticulata. (This is a "first year" pic. TheyÂre bigger and better this year!) And there are a bunch of short species of campanula/bell flowers. Campanula rotundifolia is just one of them, but it has a VERY woodsy look. (Also a first year picture, and itÂs big and beautiful this yearÂbut not blooming yet!) You could also put in some alpine strawberries, Fragaria vesca. TheyÂd need at least some intermittent sun, but mine are right against the north side of the house on the east end, and they do well with not a whole lot of direct sun. F. vesca doesnÂt get runners, so they stay where you put them! They get very small berriesÂwith the most intense strawberry flavor youÂll ever find! And then....... For shrubby stuff, IÂd second the kinnikinnick, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi suggestion, or the PlantSelect one thatÂs linked, Arctostaphylos x coloradoensis. TheyÂd definitely give you a "mountain woods" look. Another possibility that grows wild out in the hills would be Mahonia repens, creeping barberry/creeping Oregon grape holly, but you wouldnÂt want it in areas where you work a lot, Âcause the leaves are "poky" just like real holly. It also would spread a lot if not kept pruned back, but if you just want to cover ground, it would work for that, and the leaves turn reddish/purplish over winterÂdependant on the weather. ButÂI like flowers! Post some pics when you have time, Skybird

Here's a 3rd year update: these sumacs have done well in both HEAVY* all-day shade and full shade interrupted by a few hours of direct/reflected summer sunlight. The ones that get some direct light are about 3 ft across, while those in heavy shade are about half that. They were basically twigs when planted in 2012. (* HEAVY shade = in a pruned alcove under a 6 ft boxwood at the base of a 30 ft Chinese Pistache.) Color has also improved as they've gotten established. Still none of the solid fall reds seen elsewhere, but reliable yellow with red highlights that seem to be improving with age. Also holds the color longer than the first year. This one gets some sun and has been dropping it's leaves for 2 or 3 weeks: Color is also good on the smaller heavily shaded alcove plants, so not like Virginia Creeper that often doesn't color well without sun: Am pretty positive (so far) on this northern cultivar of a native TX species as a hardy and flexible deciduous ground cover for our Blackland Prairie clay. Has continued to look good with little attention or supplemental water in competition with tree roots where many other plants have failed or been devoured by the rabbits. Will prune/remove the cover shrubs this winter for more light to try to accelerate the growth to their eventual ~8 ft width.