There is no reason I am aware of. I cut back some Hairy Golden Asters down to the new growth of rosettes but left others just last weekend. If I want texture, I leave the dried stalks. I'm getting ready to do the same with liatris just so they won't seed all over, my space is too limited for that much naturalizing so I cut them back and save the seeds in grocery sacks to disperse elsewhere. Same with A. ludovica (prairie sage), if I want the texture I leave it, if I want the ground cover look of rosettes I cut. It just depends on the look you want. I usually do a selective cleanup in fall but I also leave some texture in winter to contrast with the prairie grasses.

Thanks TR. I manage everything from hundred
+ acre prairie sites to little pocket display beds in our downtown area. This question refers to the latter situation. I guess the only concern I had would be that cutting the old stalk/inflorescence might somehow encourage rotting. I only think that because of some borderline winter-hardy Agastaches I like to grow up here wherein it has been written that retaining all top parts into winter can aid in their not rotting in our cold, wet autumns. I might be over-thinking this!

I do believe I will cut back in those situations where appropriate and see what happens. Another factor-where these plants are (downtown setting) for a variety of reasons is absolutely horrible for perennial survival through winter: loads of salt-laden snow gets dumped on these beds all winter, partially melts and re-freezes time and time again, with the result that by spring, all such beds are coated with a thick layer of ice at ground level. Probably, this question is the least of my worries, lol!

+oM

You could treat it like a beach and plant beach plants...Solidago sempervirens is supposed to be very salt tolerant.

Out of curiosity, how do you plant golden rod? As seeds or potted plants?

What natives have survived the winter there?

Here is a link that might be useful: Salt Tolerant Natives

Boy wisconsitom that salt issue is another matter. I see fields being cut for hay each fall and those native goldenrods go down along with everything else, it all seems to snap back the next year. I agree, you might look into some species that tolerate saline to plant close to the street. I planted a lot of Giant Sacaton and Sacaton alkali. These both tolerate a lot of salt, the S. alkali is a nice thick tussock thats not too tall, another nice thing is, its fast growing and very drought hardy in summer. We don't get that kind of snow cover here except occasionally, ours is more of a dry, windy, bitter cold winter but we do get some very nasty ice storms so take any advice from down here with a grain of salt (ha!)

Heh, I'd have to write a book, or at least a fat chapter, to get at the true nature of that aspect of my job! Downtown, "high-touch" area, trees planted in "vaults", nowhere for the roots to go but to utterly compete with whatever I plant in those things, it would be a sad story!

My M.O. could truly be described as "Throw something against the wall, see what sticks"! Keeping in mind, the public wants "color", so things like petunias, sunpatiens, begonias, but I meanwhile like to experiment. I've probably used 500 or more species/varieties by now, just in those downtown thingamabobs.

Now out in our prairie plantings, that's back to sanity. Those are typically seeded in, although we plug stuff too sometimes. Plus wetland depressions (man-made), wet meadows, pockets of swamp conifers..........this is the fun stuff. But that downtown thing is often more grief than it's worth. We did, however, just wrap up what has got to be one of my most successful seasons. We had a cool, wet summer, which helped, as did raising up the crowns of all those trees we're trying to work under downtown. I don't want to drag you guys through all the details of my work life! But that is one s.o.b. down there!

I can't believe how fluffy and seed-packed those Solidago speciosa are, after just one season. These were prepared, as were all of our "bedding plants", by a local greenhouse that won our bid. Each year, we prepare new planting plans and accompanying plant order. I had fun blending the native side of my job with the purely ornamental. Not the first time mind you, but one of the best. And those goldenrods definitely added something nice, and something different, to those downtown beds.

+oM

wisconsitom Oklahoma City has been replacing the (blah) import stuff and going all native in their plantings downtown, along medians and the landscaping around government buildings. I know people like flowers but here they are doing mass plantings of mostly native grasses with other plants as accents which makes me very happy. We are a prairie state so I think its a matter of state pride being shown and focused on along with watering issues and lower maintenance. They also added a lot of large life sized cast-bronze buffalo's and they place them among the grasses, like a mother with two calves or as singles. Isn't that cool? The grass is very decorative when massed planted in drifts and people seem to be liking it a lot down here. The new bridges and underpasses have locally native animals like Scissor Tail Flycatchers and Native American designs as reliefs in the concrete.

I've been adding a lot more prairie grasses to my own property too. I want it to be predominantly grasses with flowering or textural plants as accents. I feel the grasses tie everything together and makes the flowers look better than when its all flowering plants.

At the History Museum there was some beautiful solidago planted in front of a thicket of Three Leaf Sumacs. I googled it and found that they are a type called 'Fireworks', low growing with arching branches. I collected a few seeds. They also have a tall mass of Azure Salvia along with other natives like liatris, hibiscus, gaillardia, rudbeckia and several others but the grasses are the main event. They have massed in prairie grasses with a huge area of little bluestem, big bluestem and another of all Indian Grass planted in a swale, these all sway in the wind which we usually have lot of. There is a large hill of big rocks encrusted with 4 types of prairie grass (muhlenbergia riverchonnii, sideoats grama, blue grama and purple three awn) and the seeds literally glow with light in late afternoon. There is a huge planting all done in switchgrass with two smaller types around the perimeter with several buffalo in the midst of it. The bluestem is a mass of blue leaves that turns purple with seeds in fall. It looks good in winter too. I asked one of the guys who was working down there about the grasses etc and he said "Oh, you mean them weeds?". Oh well, there are some people who really will never 'get it'. Personally, I think its fabulous and its particularly stunning when seen at a distance from the highway. Grasses planted in mass just make a big bold statement.

Only if you thought that water could get into the stem, down into the crown and then cause damage during below 32 temps (freezing).

Esh, that is indeed my concern. Our autumns can best be described as cold, wet, then a little colder and more rain! Muddy, mucky mess too, I might add!

TR, count me in as one more great admirer of massed native grasses! It took me a while to see the light, but now that I'm involved in this prairie thing (We're just barely in a prairie-appropriate area), I am gaining a great deal of appreciation, and for many of the very species you mention. Indian grass, big blue, little blue, switch.......these things are just fantastic, especially this time of year, and especially massed. I am sure I'll be delving further into that area. But my tastes are extremely eclectic. One of my very favorite grasses for the mixed ornamental beds (Not at all in the prairie plantings) is Korean feather reed grass-Calamogrostis brachytricha, which has the nice attribute of doing reasonably well in shade-not a common thing amongst grasses.

But I digress. The use of natives, and I suppose even "nativars" within the ornamental program is something I aim to continue. And truth be told, when I make my plans for next year for those downtown hell-holes, I typically assume zero survival of any and all perennials present. That way, anything that does survive that ice layer is a bonus. But I can't count on it.

+oM

Wisconsitom, we certainly deal with different local climate issues. Getting through a long hot dry summer is the challenge here. I tried the Korean feather reed, it wasn't happy even in shade where it needed weekly watering. I don't know which is worse on plants, your winter or our summer.

I found this link online which gave information on several types of goldenrod. I was checking around because I am going to try to grow S. 'Fireworks' from those seeds I collected. So far, I haven't tried to grow any but they certainly do line the highways in yellow here each fall along with annual snakeweed, Maximillian sunflowers and ragweed.

I use a lot of naturalized annuals that seed and they help to fill in the gaps with color helping me to cope with the summer heat. Seems it would serve the same purpose dealing with annual winter kill. Bitterweed (Helenium amarum) and Dogweed aka Fetid Marigold (Dyssodia) form neat mounds of nearly solid yellow flowers. Desert Marigold (Baileya multiradiata) is reliable for blue foliage and light yellow flowers all season and so are flame flowers which add low growing masses of hot pink, it is a perennial related to Rose Moss, annual gaillardia is also very long blooming. Most of the other annuals have shorter blooming periods but these keep the area in color and ever changing as the season progresses. They would be considered too aggressive in a conventional garden situation but in a large massed area of natives they really keep it colorful. I don't think I could get by without the annuals, some of the hardy ones are already coming up ready for next year. I do best with types that form big taproots because they can make it through the summer stress period.

A large everblooming plant I discovered this year is Cowpen Daisy. It will bloom in shade or sun and it just never shuts down, its been blooming strong since spring and is still forming new flowers on big healthy plants.

Guess I got way off topic, didn't I?

Here is a link that might be useful: https://www.chicagobotanic.org/downloads/planteval_notes/no15_goldenrods.pdf

Heh, TR, it happens! I meant to comment on Solidago 'Fireworks'. I saw that thing on (Of all places) a rooftop garden at a funky garden center in Milwaukee some years back. Definitely a looker-I put it into my work plans for the following spring, the grower at that time could not source, and I managed to forget about it all the years since. May have to revisit.

I have a great fondness for volunteer plants. I even teach my summer help how to recognize itty-bitty little sprigs of, say, petunias, when they're coming up in beds, so that they don't get weeded out. There's def. something to be said for the innate toughness of such plants. Plus, starting so small, they come into their own at a time in late summer when we can use some new blood in the beds. Great stuff.

I've worked with some of those annuals you mentioned. I seem to just keep cycling in and out of varieties, having been doing this since '89. My native plant community work is of much more recent vintage. I'm a municipal horticulturist working in the Engineering department! That's due to stormwater tie-in. A most welcome expansion of duties/responsibilities for this old dog. Good things do come to those who wait (And work at it!).

+oM

This was a very interesting thread to read. I learn a lot from this site.

This post was edited by babcia on Sat, Nov 22, 14 at 15:50

Oh, I wouldn't think anyone here on this board would be unaware of the utility of the genus Solidago for wildlife. That's pretty much what this place is all about! But is there a specific question? I'm sure we'd be happy to answer, to the best of our collective ability!

+oM