my vague sense is that grafted roses may lose their graft, but selfrooted cv can't. I've seen roses grown dry. they flower in spring, then dry back. drip. streamside/watercourse plants should like drip. (grapes, brambles, bermuda grass, aesculus c., iirc oleander. poplar would like drip so much, it would soon clog your water meter :-) ) ca natives have brief history of cultivation (nursery, hort abuse and hybridization, selection), so non-watercourse natives (diplacus?) likely lack hort-flexibility of non-watercourse ancient hort plants (perhaps olive is good example?). soil. suburbs are usually clay. most aesthetically popular dry plants are native to coarser soils (or are large) Reading years ago, I decided that all major Mediterranean climates differ significantly from each other. We grow plants without their native fauna and flora. so much is different... so, nothing beats (somebody's) hands-on research :-)

Wesserma, One point I would like to bring up about the USDA. When you fill out your form to obtain the seed, I recommend you list an Organization. If you put 'Wesserma Seeds' (or something like that) you won't ever get hassled. You also need to fill out the the section for intended use. Just say something using the words 'breeding' or 'research' and you are golden. Otherwise they will send you a one time only order. You'll get a letter saying it's a one time offer to gardeners. If you do it like I said, then you can get as many orders as you want. Of course, you only order one accession once, and not many times. You need to save the seed from the accessions you obtain. You can make multiple orders to get different accessions. In my expert opinion, some of the tropical corn varieties are hard to save seed unless you jump through hoops. What I recommend you do; so you are not dependent on tropical corn pimps hustling their proprietary tallest corn, is to find your self some very large temperate varieties and cross it with your tropicals. Once you can get consistent ears on your plants, then you can do selecting for taller ones. R.H Shumway has one called Goliath Silage. The current Iowa State Fair champ used Goliath to get a 18'4" plant. https://www.rhshumway.com/shumsite/shumsiteviewproduct.aspx?ProductID=16954 USDA also has some nice sized temperate corn http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1026853 Local name: White Dent. Native white dent with over 30 years of culture on the Sallee and Singer farm. GROWTH PLTHEIGHT 530 MORPHOLOGY EARHEIGHT 115 TAXONOMIC PRIMRACE corn belt dent http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/search.pl?accid=Ames+22133 Ames 22133 Unverified name: Imperial White. Narrative Grain: Medium size grain, white dent. Medium hard texture. Plants: Tall (about 15-17 feet) with high ears (some 8 to 9 feet). White open-pollinate maize variety called "Imperial White" Grown By Tom Lemoine near New Rhodes, Louisiana for over 50 years. The original seed was passed on to him from his father. Medium size grain, white dent. Tom Lemoine uses some ears for fresh roasting a "good eating corn". Collected late June 1994. There are many intersting tropicals on USDA besides Jala ----------------------------------------------------- http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1333879 Local name: Olotillo blanco. Value: TALL-PLANT-EXTREME_YES Qualifier: INSTANCE_001. - First miscellaneous observation made under this environment. Comment: J. Hanneman, Michigan, APR 1999. 6.94 meters (22.8 ft.). http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1374062 Other or unclassified name: Trinidad 12. Value: TALL-PLANT-EXTREME_YES Qualifier: INSTANCE_001. - First miscellaneous observation made under this environment. Comment: J. Hanneman, Michigan, APR 1999. 5.76 meters (18.9 ft.). http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1373836 PI 478900 mays one of tallest accessions in cimmyt database on singer Other or unclassified name: San Luis Potosi 107. Collected in: Mexico besides corn, you can get some other large plants from the USDA ----------------------------------------------------- Teosinte http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1087292 Zea nicaraguensis Dense 1 ha stand, 3-5 meters tall, once ubiquitous, now very rare in region http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1336870 Zea mays subsp. huehuetenangensis *my notes* grows 5 meters in native environment. Someone in SE USA grew one to 18 ft. ----------------------------------------------------- Sunflowers http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1327441 Collected in: Arizona, United States Sand dune dooryard garden. Plants to 5m tall, some multi-headed. Achenes striped. Introduced cultivar. http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1080519 Collected in: Nebraska, United States Seed collected from 28 plants. Population scattered along disturbed area of the roadside ditch, in channel. Plants extremely tall, some 4 to 5 m, branching equally up and down the stem, looking uniformly spaced. Heads as large as we have seen, but definately are still wild. Seed set good, some insect damage to head (Suleima) no apparent rust. ----------------------------------------------------- Pearl Millet http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1456591 Plants flower 64 to 68 days after planting. Plants average 4.4 and 3.2 feet tall, planted June 13 and July 18, respectively. Seeds brownish-gray in color. ttp://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1484057 Strongly photoperiod sensitive, takes about 90 d to flower and 130 d to maturity for mid-June planting. Plant height about 3.3m, ear head length 31 to 37cm, candle shaped, globular light gray grain (9-11 g 1000 seed-1) with a vitreous endosperm. ----------------------------------------------------- Amaranth http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1448048 Amaranthus australis Local name: Giant Amaranth. Collected in: Florida, United States Large plants, up to 485 cm tall. Basal circumference 24 to 56 cm. The stems are hollow, with stem walls 1.5 cm thick, purple-red or green. If water level is high, roots grow out of the stem. Plants dioecious, still in flower at collection time. Low water level during germination is said to favor establishment. Frosts in October are said to kill the plants yearly. GROWTH PLNTHEIGHT 330.00 Value: Tall growing Sample size: 26. Comment: row 128 An individual plant grew to 453 cm (15 ft 1 inch) measured and was accepted as the Guinness World's Record Tallest Amaranth. This accession grows unusually tall, but other A. australis and A. cannabinus accessions are similar.. *IMAGE* http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/images/nc7/accvoucher/Amaranthus/PI_500000-PI_599999/PI_553076/i/PI_553076_89ncao51_SD_PL_FL_2005-08-15_01.jpg ----------------------------------------------------- Sorghum http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1245110 Sorghum bicolor (L.) Moench POACEAE Institute identifier: IS 11331. Collected in: Ethiopia (Comment: Collected Sept.-Nov., 1967) Plant 3.0 m high. Head open, lax, rachis retracted, crookneck; glumes two-thirds of seed, light tan, awned; seed small, white. GROWTH PLANTHGT 730.0 (*my note* ?? typo? ) http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/search.pl?accid=329722 Sorghum bicolor (L.) Moench POACEAE Institute identifier: IS 11458. Collected in: Ethiopia (Comment: Collected Sept.-Nov., 1967) Plants 18 m tall. Heads open, lax, 230 cm long. Glumes nearly cover seed, awned. Seed brown light brown. This collection represents the variation in the field. PHENOLOGY FLOWERING photoperiod sensitive GROWTH PLANTHGT 450.0 my image (all tall plants left of me - not in bloom) http://www.gardenpics.com/photos/data/500/sorghum14ft_10_13_06.JPG http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/search.pl?accid=482936 Sorghum bicolor (L.) Moench POACEAE Donor identifier: TGR 2015. Collected in: Zimbabwe (Comment: Received through IBPGR) Race Kafir/Guinea. Plants very tall. PHENOLOGY FLOWERING photoperiod sensitive PHENOLOGY PHOTOPER sensitive, few heads, no seed production my image (one plant on right - in bloom) http://www.gardenpics.com/photos/data/500/sorghum14ft_10_13_06.JPG http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1210101 Unverified name: Galang Oualema. Collected in: Chad Plants grow to 5 meters high, mature in 5.5 months; panicles very long; glumes open; seeds crosswise, white, flat, without brown hulls, hard. http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1210102 Sorghum bicolor (L.) Moench POACEAE Unverified name: Mir N'da'. Collected in: Chad Plants grow to 5 meters high, mature in 5.5 months; panicles very long; glumes fully open; seeds crosswise, white, flat, without brown hulls, hard. http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1210121 Sorghum bicolor (L.) Moench POACEAE Unverified name: Mir. Collected in: Chad Plants grow to 5 meters high, mature in 5 months; stalks slender; panicles long, lax; seeds transverse, red, starchy, with brown hulls. http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1244782 Sorghum arundinaceum (Desv.) Stapf POACEAE Institute identifier: IS 11010. Collected in: Ethiopia (Comment: Seed collected Sept. - Nov., 1967) Plants 9 m high. PHENOLOGY PHOTOPER very insensitive, headed out, seed produced ----------------------------------------------------- There are many more than just this, but it should give you a good start.

There are smaller varieties I believe. I have just put in a variegated one called 'Munroes's white' which I was told is smaller. It has white flowers. I have mixed it with another variegated one that has pink flowers and a green that has purple flowers. I just hope the sizes are compatible because I didn't give it much thought....oh well, you live and learn lol. Cheers, Dee.

Wisconsitom, I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but I do want to point out that here in Florida, we often have issue with plant labels. Here, when a plant is labeled as 'Full Sun', putting it in 6-8 hours of sun, especially if it is late afternoon sun, is a good way to melt it! Supposedly Lemon Balm likes Full Sun in some places, but if you put it in Full Sun in my yard, it will die in days. I put some on the east side of my house, near the wall, and it got 'Morning to noon' sun and then was shaded the rest of the day. It lasted a month. But if it is planted in a spot where it gets 3 hours of morning sun and then 3 hours of later afternoon sun, but shaded through the rest of the day, it does fine. Yesterday I got home from a day of pressure washing my mother's house and found that one of my new purchases, a Purple Brazilian Salvia, was so severely wilted, I thought I had already lost it it. In it's spot, it had to have been in shade for much of the day, until 3-3:30 or so, but by 6pm when I got home, it was almost done. I moved it back to a shady spot and set it in a saucer of water and it rebounded, but boy was it ugly. Another plant that is 'Full Sun' in other places, but 3 hours of late afternoon sun almost did it in. Now, granted, as it is a very recent purchase from a local garden fair, it is very likely it needs to be hardened off, which is why I had it where I did. I just didn't think 3 hours of sun would have done that much damage.