Hi botanicalboi, I didn't want to reply to your new post that doesn't have any replies yet, (and thus start it on down the page), but wanted to suggest you maybe try posting at the link below. I was curious about all of the Mirabilis varieties you were looking for, researched them a bit, and saw that a 'lot' of them were natives. You might try with a Subject of posting line something like "Wanted different native Mirabilis seeds". or something similar. hth. Sue...aka chemocurl Here is a link that might be useful: Native Plant Exchange

I think you really do want my honest opinion, I put your pic on full screen and just don't see anything different from M. jalapa. What part looks different to you? I wonder if the older, more mature plants you have are just so much bigger? Different amounts of sun making them look different? I've noticed over the years, there can be some variation in the leaf shape of these plants, especially on a new seedling vs. a plant several years old. But hopefully someone who has grow other Mirabilis would chime in. There are supposedly other species, but I've never seen them, AFAIK. So what to compare to? Don't think any Mirabilis are true annuals but not totally sure. Pretty sure none would be expected to be hardy in Z5 without being in a micro-climate situation. It's not unusual, against the house, for plants to survive that are supposed to be out of their zone - especially bulb/tuber/rhizome type plants. My one plant was in the ground in Z5 for many years. Against a basement wall is an excellent micro-climate, warmer, dryer. This particular plant has so many anecdotes of surviving in Z5, the first that comes to mind for me. About leaning, I think it just depends on how much foliage they grow before stopping to bloom. Most individual plants do lean, but not in a way that requires staking, at least to my eye. Trimming off a chunk on the low side is easier, IME, if something is needed. They usually still look fine even if leaning, unlike a Dahlia which can't hold its' blooms off the ground, or even in a position where they can be seen. Most of those I've grown from store-bought seeds in the past decade didn't have fragrance. I've been saving seeds from this plant I know is fragrant. There should be enough plants for me to feel like removing some of the non-fragrant ones next summer, at least that are duplicate colors. I'd like to get a patch of scented multi-color plants going. I'll never understand why anyone would want a non-scented version of a fragrant plant. I think it just depends on the luck of the gene-draw, whether any individual M. jalapa plant has scented flowers or not. Saving seeds from your fragrant plants would probably be the best best vs. buying new ones. Just starting last weekend to move furniture and smaller items into winter position to make room for plants. Jack Frost could technically appear anytime now, but should still be a few weeks away. I've told you before, you would love the winter weather down here but even where I am, I dream of being farther south... Maybe for retirement?

brenda, do you mean the perennial orientals or the annual types? the annual types are easy, and i've had no issues wintering them over- they seem to like the cold. the perennials will develop a deep root eventually and i 've never heard of getting flowers the first season with them. i've tried them every which way but loose- seedlings-winter and directly sown, plants, bareroots, etc, and have yet to have much success with them. but flanders, shirleys, california and breadbox/opiums all do really well here. i'd follow quirk's advice and sow in jan/feb. they say they particularly like it if you sow them on top of a light snow- you can see the seeds, they get chilled and soaked, and as the snow melts it draws the seeds into little soil pockets. mine reseed like crazy, and they germinate here in about a month or two. tammy

Black plastic? Oh, yuck!! I thought for sure that people had learned not to use that stuff 20 years ago. It's beyond horrible. If anyone has ever gotten a good look at what it does to soil and roots underneath it, they would never even think of using it. I once saw a nice ornamental crabapple all but dead from the girdling roots caused by that awful stuff. I've also seen the soil go sour from using it, and turn into a nasty smelly mess. Brrr-r-r-r-r-r-r. What I'm using at the moment is the pro-grade DeWitt product, but it didn't do the job and they replaced it with a roll of engineering-grade instead. Since I bought a huge roll of it (3,000 sq ft) and it failed, it was worth calling the company to see if they'd make good on the warranty. They finally did. I had tried just about all the other landscape fabrics and had near zero success with them, so I decided to go with a top-of-the-line commercial product. If this new one doesn't work, I'm out of luck. In nearly all cases where I've used that, I'm topping it with pea gravel. Now of course I need to take up all the bad areas and replace it with the new stuff, which means moving all that gravel in order to do it. Sigh. I did discover that when I top it with either bark or pecan shell, the weeds are thrilled with it. It doesn't slow them down a bit. I'm going to have to pull every bit of it out and do all of that over again also. In the veggie garden I use thick layers of newspaper and grass clippings or chopped up hay bedding over the top of it, so it can be turned under later on. If I didn't want to continue to improve the soil where I'm growing produce, I could use a more permanent fabric, but the newspaper (or paper feed sacks) works pretty well when they are topped by several inches of actual mulch. I just wet them all down thoroughly when I put them in place and then pile the mulch over the top. I've never tried cardboard for that, although I've heard that some people do it. Speaking of the landscape fabrics in general, meaning the ones you can find at Lowe's and places like that, I think they're a waste of time and money, and I speak from experience. I noticed that the local nursery at Shawnee Feed is now carrying little rolls of the DeWitt brand, but I seriously doubt that it's the heavy industrial grade stuff that I have. If I have to look on the plus side of needing to do all that work again, as least it will give me an opportunity to situate the new plants where I want them and lay out the drip line properly, to suit the needs of the individual plants. It was an afterthought when my grandson put it in for me, and it was never really finished or done right if I'm going to be changing plant materials. And speaking of that, has anyone else noticed how hard it is to find a good supply of drip system stuff in OK. Is it just me? Am I not looking in the right places? I can't find the shrub bubblers that I want, or the micro spinners, or the spikes that are used in nursery pots, or any of that stuff. Anyone have a suggestion about where to find a good supplier? Pat