Pete has actually flattered everybody with his use of old meaning of phlegmatic, not the modern perversity associated with sputum ... taken verbatim from the Seer contributor from Cannery Row (also known as Wikepedia) ... do love the oxymoron of "relationship-oriented introvert", one of my sons is like that ... dad's just a hermit. "When the concept of the temperaments was on the wane, many critics dropped the phlegmatic, or defined it purely negatively as the absence of temperament. This, however, made it available for the German philosopher Immanuel Kant to reclaim as the temperament appropriate to freedom and virtue. In the Five Temperaments theory, the classical Phlegmatic temperament is in fact deemed to be a neutral temperament, whereas the "relationship-oriented introvert" position traditionally held by the Phlegmatic is declared to be a new "fifth temperament."

Mountainsong, You mentioned that most of the land you can find is owned by somebody. That doesn't necessarily mean there's no hope of using it. Sunshine Community Garden in Austin, TX is on land leased from the state (specifically from the State School for the Blind), and it's been there for many years. Try looking for land around state, county or municipal offices, schools, even churches. Lots of times they're holding that land to build on "someday" and they'll lease it out for very little money to a community organization in the meantime. You do then have the anxiety that you could lose it at any time, but you might also still have the spot 25 years from now. Oddly enough, some of the big huge apartment mega-developments and new "planned communities" are now starting to offer garden space, too. If you live in an area that's undergoing lots of development, consider talking to the developers. You might be pleasantly surprised; it doesn't cost them all that much to set aside one lot, and it's good community relations for them. For like-minded people, have you been in touch with your county's Cooperative Extension Agency? You can get lots of help there. Good luck! It'll be a lot of work, but it's amazing what a handful of people can create.

I posted this to the above thread but I'll post it here too. I'm still getting ads when I use the Internet Explorer browser, and I'm (or was) a contributing member. Switch to the Mozilla browser and get AdBlock -- they're both free. You won't see any more ads. Worth getting because even if iVillage does block ads again for contributing members, the grace period won't last forever. Directions for how to activate AdBlock with Mozilla/Firefox browser: * download and install Firefox 1.5 * in the FireFox address bar type about:config * scroll down the list to the entry xpinstall.enabled * right click on the entry and select toggle from the menu * toggle as needed to set the value to true * go to the Firefox website and follow links to extensions * find the extension adblock and install it * remember to toggle xpinstall.enabled back to false * in Firefox select Tools -> Adblock -> Preferences * use the New Filter field to add the following items: http://amch.questionmarket.com http://a820.g.akamai.net http://iv.doubleclick.net http://i.ivillage.com http://m.2mdn.net http://tste.ivillage.com http://img-cdn.mediaplex.com http://ads.vmirror.com http://cmhtml.ivillage.overture.com http://ads.pointroll.com * enable Adblock The trick with Adblock is to block the domain rather than the specific ad. If you click on Adblock to disable an ad. Select Tools -> Adblock -> Preferences from the menu and then edit the new entry; remove anything that follows after .com or .net. This will block everyting from that source.

hey carl first.. all the forums tend to die between late fall .. and the holidays ... and somewhat into january ... peeps are just distracted ... and a little depressed stuck in the house.. once the holidays breaks.. dreams of next years garden.. seem to increase participation ...mostly with receipt of catalogs .... as to pix.. they are my pix.. and i do not post them for GW or anyone else to 'store' for me .... that would involve GW using my work product for their profit in running GW .... also ... i am not going to pay some site like photobucket for an extra-ordinary amount of space to store every picture i ever posted .... so as my posts fall down thru to page 2 or 3 .... i tend to delete the pix from PB .... but i am always willing post pix on a request.... or if you want to bring up an old post.. just do a reply .. and there is a super secret way for me to post the pix contained therein ... ken