Hi again Monique. Thanks again for the info. I have one more question too. The Leucothoes that you have look magnificent. And I wonder if they are growing in full sun too? Everything I hve read about these shrubs says that they should do best in partial to even deep shade, similar to where they grow in the wild. Yours look so healthy and luxurious in growth. They are hard shrubs to find around here, I think relatively unknown and a bit problematic for hardiness reasons, also for the prevalent alkaline clay soil. But I have acid sand and some woodland conditions, so they should do OK for me. I have looked around for them, but found only a few Leucothoe 'Rainbow', which I have planted in protected spots in the woods. And yes, now I see that the tall red "flowered" shrubs are heptacodiums. Just bought 2 on sale myself. I am looking forward to that one. Do you have any other pictures showing them up closer in flower or fruit? I promise that, once the garden season is really over I will post some pictures from this season. We have done a tremendous amount of work and have more and more of the 'framework' of the garden in -- hardscape, beds, paths, some major trees and shrubs, etc. But mostly, nothing is yet 'complete', since the groundcovers and herbaceous plants and vines that knit everything into a cohesive whole are mostly not there. So mostly I have not yet taken a lot of pictures of completed vignettes. Yours have certainly been inspirational though, and have motivated me to get the specimen woody plants in the ground and going, more than ever.

It's all good, Gal. I've oft noted the less than clearcut "northerlieness" of varied locations, like your Maine example.........and depending on which type of map one is viewing, the various types of distortions necessary to fitting all the land masses on the flat sheet of paper.....can even distort this further. But no matter. Whaas, I like Symphoricarpos too, although I do know of some folks having that plant in their gardens wishing they didn't, what with the vigorously stoloniferous habit it has. Guess it all goes down to where you have it and what you are trying to accomplish. But you're right-it is very reminiscent of the shrub genus in discussion here. I'd be more inclined to use coralberry where I wanted straight-up colonization of a portion of a site, in other words, a more naturalistic planting. I think it is native to our part of the world as well. For that matter, the white-fruited Symphoricarpos alba is quite nice too. Rina, I have to admit, I see Toronto and other Canada words in your posts and get the idea we're in similar climactic conditions, but we're still colder here, never rising above a Z5 designation. Then there's years like last year, where cold-hardiness is really put to the test here. We shall see. This is a fun topic for discussion, but that's really about all it is at this point! +om

I agree with fledgeling - these forums have far less conflict than most. Go to a few political forums or blogs! You'll realize how fortunate we are. Here are a few suggestions for dealing with the occasional hostile person you meet online. Don't try to placate them or re-explain your question or statement. They don't care about you or your problem, nor are they motivated by a desire to help. They will view your attempts to explain as a sign of weakness and will attack you again. They are not introspective (they don't wonder, "what did I do wrong"). When they offer advice, the underlying message is usually a putdown - that you are stupid for asking the question. Ignore them. Completely. They can't fight with air. They are usually embroiled in battles with several other people. If you don't take the bait, they will move on to easier prey. You have more control over how things evolve than you realize. If you know a person has a history of hostile, negative responses to others, don't solicit their advice. If they do offer advice, say "thank you," and nothing else. When you see a post by them, don't respond. If you receive an email, hit the delete key. Nothing bad will happen if you don't take the bait.

First I am not trying to argue. Second I have seen your gardens in the uk and they are gorgeous. Just stunning!! To me heirloom is of course a tried and true. Which means open pollination, which simply means that the item in question needs to be pollinated by insects or other means like someone hand pollinating it. Tried and true for generations to me means that it is grown from seed and tried over and over again and it still comes true while being open pollinated unless it is crossed. Melons or Curcurbit can cross within half a mile. Beans and peas do not cross. Tomatoes excluding hybrids potato leaf and currant will not cross. This simply means that if a plant is open pollinated and it is tried and true. That to me means that it produces TRUE seed. Heirloom, tried and true!! In regards to an apple tree, most actually have to have 2 types of apples in order to produce fruit. Now if you are going to try and gather seed you can't very well gather seed without an apple. If natives did not come TRUE from seed regardless if it is a bush, shrub or a flower. Then how do they reseed out in the wild?? 1 criteria of winter sowing is if it reseeds then you can winter sow it. Callicarpa americana is a native. Native means that it is distributed in its area by means of wind or birds or human distribution. Euonymus americanus is another native. Both are shrubs and both come true from seed. IF they are not crossed. Now granted if I was to have 3 types of callicarpa they would not come true from seed, and the ONLY option would then be to propagate from cuttings to get a true plant. Hybrids, the only way to propagate a hybrid is to propagate from cuttings. Some say that if a hybrid sets seed then you can grow it. It is possible in 3 years of saving the seed after 3 generations you may get a stable strain. That to me is not worth it. So I don't mess with hybrids. PawPaw is a native tree that produces fruit, which produces seed, which is true. Mulberry is a tree that produces fruit that produces true seed. There are a lot of fruit trees that actually produce true seed, there are a lot of shrubs that produce true seed. What you have to be aware of is simply: Is there anything that it may have crossed with?? Is it a hybrid?? If people learned botanical names instead the description then this would make seed saving a heck of a lot easier in my opinion. The botanical tells you a lot. Just because you can grow it from seed doesn't mean it will produce true seed. That is why heirlooms are sought is because they DO produce true seed if not crossed. Here is my favorite website on seed saving!! Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Saving