I revive this old thread on soil testing, since I have just received my soil report from EarthCo, as recommended by Karl from zone 5a. A $20 test gives you accurate results for pH, organic matter, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, and magnesium. It's a good deal, considering that you get MANY samples from your garden, and send that 1 cup of cumulative soil to www.drgoodearth.com EarthCo also gives you a thick booklet that covers the basics of soil science. I was lazy, so I got only the surface soil, rather than the bottom yellow clay (which I already tested using Lowe's soil kit). My surface soil (with dead leaves & grass, horse manure, etc.) are: 7.7 for pH (as expected with alkaline clay and horse manure), high in organic matter, and SUPER-HIGH in magnesium! I would like to thank Michaelg, Mike Rivers, Karl, and Jim for encouraging me to DO A SOIL TEST FIRST BEFORE WASTING TIME WITH EPSOM SALT. My calcium and phosphorus are adequate, but my potassium is a little bit short. We can always use more banana peels for roses in my zone 5a, 1 hour west of Chicago. Berndoodle is right on the info. about heavy clay and high magnesium in California (my 3 sisters live there). Bern's info. on high pH can be amended through addition of nitrogen/organic matter is correct, since cow manure's pH is 4 to 5, peat moss is 4, and both alfalfa meal and pine bark are acidic. The exception is horse manure, reported around 8 to 10 pH, since some stables add lime to deodorize their stalls. I spent 1 hour researching to see if gypsum is necessary for clay. The answer is NO, do not waste your money. The best amendment for clay from my experience is peat moss to lower pH, and alfalfa meal. Here's my experiment on William Shakespeare rose, planted as a band this July: Knowing his reputation for being wimpy, I put him in Miracle-Gro potting soil. The pot wasn't draining well, so he was turning yellowish. He whimpered in the hot sun, so I put him in partial shade, he improved and started blooming. I planted him in the ground September 1. I was really annoyed by his continued yellowish leaves, even with improved drainage. So I dug him up, and amended the soil with 2 gallons of peat moss mixed with 1 gallon of alfalfa meal. It was excessive, but worked wonder. Mr. Shakespeare turned dark green, and really bushy and vigorous. The peat moss brought down the pH, fixed my alkaline soil problem, and the alfalfa meal gave the nitrogen needed and stimulated abundant new growth. With Eglantyne I followed Roses Unlimited directions of 2 cups of alfalfa meal & 3 cups peat moss in the planting hole, OK, but leaves are NOT as green as Mr. Shakespeare. Michaelg: Where do you get litmus paper or Rapi-test for pH? The soil test from Lowe's is not accurate with pH, and I need to test horse manure repeatedly for high pH whenever I get from the stable. Many thanks.

Chasing pH is a futile endeavor. Well, that depends on what your goals are, what your pH is and your access to resources. You're trying to push your pH from an 8+ in calcareous clay down to a 5.0 and you're on a budget? Yeah. That's pretty futile. Now let's say you've got a pH of 7.5 in a sandy soil with no lime and would like to shift it down to 7.0 or even a little acid so that your maple will stop showing symptoms of alkalinity induced chlorosis. Let's also say you have the means to buy some sulfur (and/or iron sulfate) pre-plant and use acidifying fertilizers to keep the pH down over time? Not futile at all. In fact, it's really common. As free hydrogen is replaced by anions (e.g. calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium) the pH rises. Well, not really. pH is not a relationship of hydrogen to other cations. pH is an expression of the relationship between hydrogen and hydroxide (OH-). Note that hydroxide is an anion. That's why you can always calculate your pOH if you know your H+ concentration and vice-versa. You will never be able to calculate your pH from your concentration of other cations. At pH 7.0 and above there is no free hydrogen in the soil.Actually, if you have a pH of 7.0, that means that the concentration of hydrogen is exactly the same as the concentration of hydroxide in the soil solution. If you had no hydrogen your pH would be 14 and your pOH would be 0. I think you may be thinking of exchange sites on colloids. If you have a pH of 7.0 or above you may indeed have 0% hydrogen (or actually so close that it is reported as 0% on a base saturation analysis). Also, you can't raise your pH by just picking a cation and increasing it. That's why you won't get an increase in pH from adding gypsum (calcium sulfate) except under special circumstances.

The red clay probably needs some amendments to lighten it. How about ferns? Some of them can really take off and cover large areas within a few years. Best if you have some on the property already and can transplant. I'm not sure about all the leaf litter that will fall on this area for some of the plants you have listed...seems alot of folks here talk about leaf blowing their vinca and pachysandra,etc. You might think about first pulling the weeds, adding amendements,then putting down fine wood chips. Move some ferns into the areas next spring. Seems like a tricky problem. Ever think about terracing to reduce the slope?

This is our 4th year with our Pom Tree & boy am I beginning to understand how these tree's have been around since Old Testament Times!We have a " relaxing sitting spot" a couple of "motel chairs" & a matching round table (how retro?,LOL) shaded by the branches of this pom tree, this year we even have about a dozen poms of varying sizes hanging from those branches,most of them with that red blush that signals it won't be long till we can finally can taste the fruits of our labors,LOL.Yes!Only 4 years & it is large enough to have it's own special area! I insist that it be more of a tree than a bush,( I remember from my childhood they were always bushes) so when I give it a haircut I am RUTHLESS!This tree is hardy & stands up to me when about twice a year I decided it is time for that haircut.Hubby & friends almost have a heart attack saying things like "you are gonna kill that poor tree cutting that tree in this heat!" (Hot Texas July Sun)But this tree never even flinches, so far,it has rewarded me with even more growth! When we 1st got it, it was about 5ft tall & about 4 sticks in that pot of dirt, now it is close to 15 foot & many branches with lush emerald green leaves. Now I want more! Y'all talk of taking cuttings, I am abit unsure of where to take these cuttings, could some please explain exactly where I should take them? And when I should take them? Thanks!