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Caddo sugar maple

lou_spicewood_tx

17 years ago

Are the new leaves supposed to be droopy looking? I have two little ones around 3 feet that i planted over the fall/winter. They have already grown about 5,6 inches so far. I googled for pictures of caddo leaves up close but couldn't find them.

Comments (8)

spruceman
17 years ago
You have one nice healthy tree there--nothing wrong at all. Sometimes when sugar maple put out their new shoots with their new leaves the tips of the shoots even droop over a bit.

--Spruce
lou_spicewood_tx
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks. I'm curious to see how it turns out in my area. Caddo sugar maple is from isolated area of southwest of Oklahoma which tend to have long dry hot summers and can supposedly even grow in rocky limestone soil which I have. This particular sugar maple has been highly recommended for dallas-ft worth area if we ever wanted to grow "sugar" maple. Much tougher than those famous sugar maples from northeast of USA...
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I am worried that since I planted the trees deeply, that they may rot and die. What do you think would be the best thing to do in my situation? I would like to get these trees on Caddo roots, but don't want to do it if it's going to kill them. I have some perlite and cactus mix. I'm thinking of three options. I could re-pot the trees into a normal potting mixture with the graft above the soil and hope that they would still be hardy enough for me. Alternatively, I could put them into some perlite with the graft covered and hope for rooting to take place. Or I could get risky and cut the scions of the Caddos off and dip them in rooting hormone and stick them into the perlite and try to root that way. I know the first option is definitely the safest, but I just want to make sure that these trees will grow well in my area. I'm open to all feedback and hopefully y'all can help me decide on what the best option would be in my scenario. Thanks.
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Alabammatreehugger, I do agree with you if the suggested oak and beech were planted in the wrong micro-climate, they could suffer from molds and or leaf bleaching. But in relation to nrwv's reported situation: the North Carolina tree evaluation list indicates that there are some good English oak cultivar specimans growing in the state. The cultivar specifically mentioned is the 'Crimson Spire' (15' wide spreader English Oak cultivar.) The NC tree evaluation report did mention that some of these english oaks suffer damage from Japanese beetles, but isn't the Bayer brand systemic treatment for trees and shrubs an affective treatment to prevent such damage. I have used that systemic treatment on many of my trees and shrubs, and it has protected them from such infestions. The Bayer brand Systemic treatment is easy to apply; and after the intial treatment, the trees only need to be retreated with it once in the early fall of each following year, thereafter. Further more, if the Oaks are planted on the east side of those red tips which are growing on the west side of the driveway, then the oaks would get the benefit of morning and midday sun to help dry the morning dew: they would also get the benefit of afternoon shade cast onto them by those tall red tips, resulting in the trees being protected from the hot sun in the hottest part of the summer day. Also, the Purple leaf beeches surely would benefit from the afternoon shade which those tall red tips growing only 5 feet west of them would be providing. Then, at various times in the summer the beeches could even get some morning sun shade provided by the oaks, especially if those oaks were planted just east of the beeches and staggered a little just to the north or south of each purple leaf beech; as I first suggested planting them. In light of the micro climate situation as the trees planted the way I suggested would encounter, I have a little trouble imagining how the beech leaves will be over exposed to fading light or how the oaks will not be benefited by the morning sun helping to dry their leaves. The drying dynamic I am thinking of to benefit the english oak cultivars is similar to the mold and black spot preventive benefits roses obtain when they are growing in a micro-climate, which receives morning sun and afternoon shade. Also, just like when people avoid watering such mold suceptable plants in the late afternoon or early evening, when there is not enough time for the sun to dry the rose's foliage.
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For some trees in their first year in the ground always look bad but comes back looking much better next year (small size trees). Also, planting time does make a huge difference during the first year. Planting in fall/winter will give you much better looking tree compared to spring planting. Sometimes the tap water does funky stuff to the leaves when watered so if you use sprinkler system for the lawn, it's probably why. If you're worried about watering too much, look at the year of 2007 when Texas got a lot of rainfall. That happened to be such awesome year for tree growth. Must be something in the rainwater, eh? As far as getting rid of grass, I use round up to kill them then mulch over dead grass. I occasionally us RU whenever grass pops through the mulch. Annoying but that's Bermuda grass for you. It'd take nuclear weapon to get rid of it entirely. Throw in Montezuma Cypress... Pretty cool tree to have that will turn rustic red in the middle of the winter. Mine grew 4-5 ft in their first year. Shantung Maple 'Skinny Dragon' looks like it grew about 5 ft? Blaine's Dragon about 3-4 ft. Super Dragon got burned off unfortunately. I guess full brunt of afternoon sun was too much for lime green color leaves to handle... Or too much water since all the container trees were around it that needed daily watering in the summer. Who knows?
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it is very important.. that if fall color is your ultimate goal.. that you go buy your tree when it is in full color.. no real relying on 'tags names' ... if it is that important ... but that isnt much of a problem ... since it will then be dormant.. and planting can easily.. and properly follow ... ament.. start your own post... so answers come directly to you ... and specify what tree you are interested in ... as to arks pix.. i am a little leery of said GIANT tree in said tiny pot ... personally.. i would not buy it ... i would think ..... in that pot.. about half that size would be proper ... and.. as usual ... would bet a nickle.. that the smaller would outgrow the larger transplant in 5 years ... again.. think about this... a tree is said to be twice as big underground as above ... looking at that tree in that pot ... whats your best guess ... the rootmass 1/10 of the seen part ???? ... and if not.. its got two miles of roots going around and around in the pot .... and Jon .... if momma is the problem with proper tree selection.. good luck with all that .... just make her happy .. and perhaps .... repeatedly suffer the consequences ken
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spruceman
17 years ago
Thanks--interesting. I had not heard of this variety before. It's great you can have sugar maples there.

--Spruce
Embothrium
17 years ago
A seed strain. Fall color not much, unfortunately.
lou_spicewood_tx
Original Author
17 years ago
We will see. It was one of trees recommended for fall color in dallas-ft worth area.

Look for Caddo maple 'Dr John Pair' - apparently better consistent fall red color. This is a bit hard to get although I can get one from Oregon but it's pricey for 5 gallon. I found a local nursery that sells it but not available at the moment. It's hard enough finding a regular Caddo maple anyway. It's a best variant of Sugar Maple for my area that can take alkaline rocky soil, hot and dry summers... Then again there's texas native variant of sugar maple called Big Tooth maple, Acer grandidentatum. The problem is that most of them grow so slow. There might be one that is genetically fast growing but apparently, I'd have to drive way out to west texas for that. They claim around 3 feet a year.

Shantung Maple 'Fire Dragon' is probably best maple with great fall color for us not wanting to wait for it to get big. Grows fast and consistently produce red fall leaves. Best of all, it was adapted to Dallas-FT Worth area where this 'Fire Dragon' was grown from seed. I'd like to think of it as super hardy version of japanese maple that can take heat, full sun and drought. It's fabulous.
tcharles26
17 years ago
I have a big tooth. I bought it almost ten feet tall maybe 2 years ago. It has not grown much, just filled out a little. Although this year it made flowers and samaras for the first time. Fall color on mine is orange.
lou_spicewood_tx
Original Author
17 years ago
Tcharles26,

I hope you have provided a nice wide (5 ft) mulch around the tree! You might want to try a handful of alfalfa pellets on the ground followed by 1 inch layer of compost then aged hardwood mulch (not fresh) to provide nutrients for faster growth.

It typically takes 2-3 years for trees that size to start growing more rapidly, maybe longer if they don't get proper fertilizer (preferably organic) and mulching. my neighbor has a couple trees that size and never really grown much for 3 years because they did not provide mulch or anything. Just let bermuda grow up to trunk... Grass and tree have very different preference for type of soil biology (bacterial dominated vs fungal dominated soil) so they don't really work very well together, at least for young trees. When you have large mature tree, they provide plenty of leaves every fall to feed and keep fungi population high enough to keep trees thriving. Look at forests. That's how they are formed. Young trees need special care from us.
tcharles26
17 years ago
I have a cultivated area around the tree, mulched with bark and set out from the yard with landscaping stone. Not quite 5 feet, but close I guess.

I attribute the slow start to the fact that the tree was planted too low in the container, just a straight trunk coming out of the soil. So I traumatized it a little to expose the root flare. It looks good this year, and I expect it do well, after a wet winter, and the wettest March on record.

Last year (which was a pretty brutal summer here) some of the leaves scorched a little, but Im hoping it will do a little better this year since its more established.

RE: 'Fire dragon' maple - Agreed it's a nice tree. Keith Johansen has a few other variants under observation. including a variegated form, But I'll hold out for a dwarf becuase I dont have enough room for many more trees.

I picked up a small Shirasawanum from Metromaples that isn't widely available yet called "Moonrise". It's supposed to be a more sun and heat tolerant shirasawa maple. We'll see, The leaves look pretty thin....

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