Hi, again.

It looks to me like next Sunday night or Monday could be good days for both of us to start. The forecast now is for rainy, overcast days starting then with temperatures in the 40-60 range. I think that is just about ideal.

Be careful. This is all a very critical time. I've got big strips of burlap and a big sheet of tight nylon netting that is for gathering leaves that I can use to keep my plants shaded as they get used to the sunlight. When I first started, I lost a lot of nice buds by not bringing the new white growth into the sun slowly. And you are aware of the dangers of frost.

For the ones in my corral, I'll just take off the top bags and cover them with burlap or my sheet of nylon for a few days. Then maybe just cover them when it's the sunniest part of the day....Let them lay there for a few days. Then stand them up....Be prepared to lay them all back down if the weather looks like it could freeze....

For the ones in the ground with wire and bags of leaves, I usually take off the topmost bags from the north side, exposing the plants to the north but still shaded somehow. Keep a piece of burlap handy to protect them from the direct sun for a while. Be ready to put the bags back if it freezes.

With the ones you've got pressed to the ground, I don't see an easy way to protect them once you've taken everything off. It's not my favorite way to overwinter. Maybe you could, as an experiment, not take the covering off until we're farther along. Or else take the covering off now and realize that you might be out there on a frosty night or two putting blankets and sheets of plastic over the upright plants.

One other thing. Try to resist poking around with the plants. I find that the new sprouts of growth break really easily right now. They need to toughen up a bit.

Good luck.

Hay

I finally felt safe to uncover my Nikkos yesterday afternoon. I keep reading about global warming but I see no evidence of it up here in VT...yet. In April I got 4 feet of snow with the last snowfall around the 15th with 16". And May has been cool with only a couple days in the 70's and the rest below that. My last frost warning was a few days ago and I finally feel safe from frost, although a few recent nights have gone done to 33 the forecast is for milder weather coming. I waited until about 3:30 in the afternoon so they did not get an all day dose of sun. Here are my initial results:

For my two Nikkos which are about 12 years old I used the corral method with a diameter of about 38 inches and 4 feet high. I tied them up for compactness and each got 2 wraps of burlap and then about 15 black 30 gallon bags filled with leaves and air. I did that in mid-November and they have been protected over the last 6 months that way. BTW, it is a windy location and I do get winter lows of 30 below in a usual winter. I had read up on overwintering methods and until yesterday I did not know how the canes would survive.

After gently removing the corral and bags and burlap I found the canes to be in pretty good initial shape. There are about 100 canes about 38 inches in lenght and about half had new leafy growth up and down the old wood. The growth is all a white/yellow/very pale green in color and very, very tender. The canes have a definite black color to them which I think is from some of the old dead leaves which turned to black. Most of the brown buds are soft and fleshy and tender to the touch. But tender, I touched one very gently and it fell off. Up and down the canes there are more buds just opening up with the yellow/pale green color. I gave them both a gentle shower and I won't touch them for days as they adjust to the weather.

Previously these 2 have always died back to the ground and the buds were freeze dried. So this is something new for me. I'll try and post some pic's when I have time. To be cont'd........JK

In this experiment I also used the flat box method on 2 young Nikkos and 1 young ES. They were 2 year olds when I planted them late last May. The canes were much smaller and lenght was probably about 16 inches. About 3 weeks ago after the snow in the garden melted I very soon noticed that the tips of the plants were growing out from under the box and bag of leaves. At first 2 inches and then 5 inches and looking green and healthy. So I had a feeling that the flat box method was working just fine for me.

After removing the bag of leaves and boxes I saw the same yellow/white/pale green foliage and buds. These were all curvy and had a helter-skelter look to them, but the old small canes and buds seemed to be fine...just very, very tender. I expected them to be growing waywardly and initially I thought I would stake them to be more upright, but they are too tender for that right now. I'll let them get used to the sun and the weather first. Or maybe they will just straighten out by themselves?

I'll watch how they do. I initially think this is a very good method and moreso because it is so fast and easy to do...maybe 5 minutes per plant, whereas the corraled big Nikkos took me about 2 hours each per plant.

I think they braved the winter so well because they were down in the ground and well insulated by the flat box and bag of leaves and the snow on top of that. I'll keeep checking them but I won't touch them for a week.

I also have 8 ES which I planted last May (2 year olds then) and they received just a few inches of mulch at the base. I was surprised to see that a few of them had leafed out from the old canes. So far only the bottom 6 inches have new growth on the old canes. Of course they also have new growth at the base too.

I won't know for sure how they did for a month or so.

To be cont'd....JK

I've had mine open for a couple of weeks now. It's been pretty ideal conditions for me.

Be careful not to have direct sun on them for a while. Mine spent most of the first week under the shade of a tight mesh sheet of nylon material and some old lattice pieces I have around. And the mounds are in an area that is in pretty deep shade much of the day.

And I've been making a point of spritzing the tender new growth with water a couple times a day so that the shoots wouldn't be drying out.

It's working.

I got the last of them stood up yesterday and they're more green than white now.

I had a big disappointment with my oldest one in the ground that I do the bags of leaves in a wire corral method. The buds were all dead and there wasn't any new growth at all from them, so they must have gotten killed over the winter. My best guess right now is that I was so busy last fall with a big project that I had put the bags over them way sooner than I wanted. And I remember that last fall was pretty hot. I suspect that I just baked them to death last fall. This is the second year in a row that I've failed to get this one through the winter. I really don't know precisely why.

But my mounds, as they have for umpteen years now, didn't fail me at all. I think that's turning out to be the best method for me.

Good luck,

Hay

Hey Hay, These have had direct full sun for 2 days now and I did not use any screening. The white/yellow/pale green growth is slowly greening up. I've decided I am not going to go near them for a week as I might be tempted to do something I shouldn't to them...like touch them.

Yeah, I have also been giving them a gentle early AM shower and they appear to be coming along well. With the older Nikkos I guess I will lose some canes, but not too many and since the 2 older Nikkos each have over 100 canes I am not too concerned. Later, JK

Lets see, its been about 4.5 days since I removed the corrals and bags and burlap from my 2 older Nikkos. #1 Nikko has green growth on about 60% of the old canes with the eastern oriented canes being slow to green. The north and west sides green faster with the south just behind and the eastern side nearly naked. I dunno? About the same with Nikko #2 but only 40% of the old canes are sprouting new green growth. I'm just giving it time and my guess is that soon the naked canes will catch up to the rest of the plant.

When I removed the first bags the other day I should note that it was like opening-up the oven door. HOT! Air temp was only about 75 but when those bags came off alot of hot air hits you. I must guess that the black bags can really heat up a plant, must have been over 100 degrees under those bags. And dry, very dry too. I wonder if it got too hot this late Nov. Dec and May???

Some critter, I think a vole made his winter home there too. Did not seem to damage the hydrangea. He is big and fast and bigger than any mole I've ever seen. About 8 inches long and 3 inches in diameter and gray and very fast with good eyesight. Hope he goes away or I'll have to catch 'em.

The much younger Nikkos which got the flat box keep greening and getting back their normal color. They are growing sideways and waywardly but next week I'll gently train them upright. Still a bit too delicate for me to try.

My 8 ES which got zero winter protection are growing and looking very robust and healthy. I also flat boxed an ES just to see how it performs and compare to the others. Otherwise it is just a waiting game to see how they all do, Cheers, JK

When I've wrapped ones in the ground, I will have seen new growth when I open them up. If you're not seeing some growth on the tips of the canes then they might not have made it. I just told you about having not made it for two years now with my oldest one. I really miss seeing it bloom.

I think it's very interesting that you haven't been slowly bringing this new growth into the sun and that it seems to be working. I've always been very cautious about that, and I've never been bold enough to really give it a test.

I'm also curious about your high temperatures when you uncovered them. I've never really had that happen and I wonder what our differences are. Mine are in somewhat shaded spots. One thing I do is try to get thick-enough bags of dry leaves. Not meaning to pack the leaves in, but to have a big volume of dry leaves between the plant and the outside. I think this is what helps the most to keep the inside environment neither too hot nor cold.

I'm always seeing lots of signs of little critters overwintering inside my overwintered hydrangeas. Makes sense, right? One of the very interesting things to me is that the critters don't seem to harm the plants at all. Not one bit. You'd think they'd just love to have a juicy plant bud or some nice tender bark to eat on, but they don't touch it. I always figured it must taste just awful, the buds and the bark, and I think the plant itself has some poisonous elements. But, for whatever reason, they are never eaten.

Up above I had mentioned last year that I did a little mound of plants with a little bit of difference. I don't really like the black plastic bag look that I get when I cover my mounds. In this mound I didn't use bags of leaves, just used leaves themselves.

Here is {{gwi:1023467}}. This is in the fall. (I won't repeat myself, but I give you the details of the procedure above on Sun, Nov 12, 06 at 12:14 if you're interested.)

{{gwi:1023470}} I'm just experimenting and trying something new, but I think this illustrates how you can do this and have it just appear to be a pile of leaves left out over the winter as opposed to a pile of black plastic bags. A little nicer.

{{gwi:1023472}} I ended up covering this with dry leaves last fall to about the height of the white planter. That plant did just fine.

And here is {{gwi:1023474}}. (Still not being bold, I kept them covered with the lattice til they got a little greener)

Hay

I will chime in here regarding my experience in central CT.

Two years, I experimented with the leaf deal completely coverieng all of my hydrengeas (approx. 20). Had great success, but come the spring, I felt it was too much work removing all the leaves.

This past year, I experimented with burlap. I secured all the canes with burlap, sometimes 2 and 3 layers. Once again, sweet success. Its a bit less work. But all in all, no matter what avenue you take, its time consuming.

But, all worth it in the end.

Hay, I do have new growth on many of the canes running from the bottom up to the tip. However the eastern sides of the 2 old Nikkos are slow to green. Every couple days I notice a few more buds will sprout from the old canes. On some canes the first green buds will pop on the middle of the cane, sometimes lower and sometimes near the tip. The very top 2-3 inches of the canes appear to be dead, but I'll give it a little time to be sure.

The eastern canes just seem to be slower to pop green as the rest of the plant. I dunno? Maybe they fried, maybe got colder or maybe??? Maybe dead? The western and northern side were well leafed when I removed the burlap and bags and are doing just fine...eastern side greens slower. Like in a different growth zone. I'll post some photos tomorrow night.

Shading them? I was tempted to since it was 75 and very sunny and they looked so tender. And the next day was 85 and sunny. But, I relented and felt they would make it and indeed they are. Also my sun up here is not as hot or direct as yours. I don't want to baby them too much. You might not really need to shade yours either. Next time, try it on one and see what happens.

My HOT temps released upon opening the corrals is proably because mine were not shaded at all..full sun on black plastic. Cozy.

Critters, yeah mine was a Meadow Vole and I guess the 2 corrals were his/her turf. With that safe corral gone I have not seen the vole, hopefully it moved out to the woods. I thought it might go after the new tender sprouts but didn't.

Thanks for the pic's Hay, you really have quite the systematic approach.

My results with ES have been quite good so far and I suspect in a short time I'll give my Nikkos away and stay with remonetents here in VT. Just too cold and summer too short. A year ago I wondered why I never saw any mature blooming Maccrophyllas up here and now I know just why. Plenty of Annabelles and Panis.

More later, JK

Thanks for chiming in jimrac, I would think that in a warmer zone like 6 or 7 that a few burlap wraps could do the trick.

Thanks to both of you.

I'm always interested in other people's experiences. Jimrac, that's very interesting. If you go just an hour or so south of me in Ct., then some of the Nikkos will sometimes flower. But here, they just about never would flower without some sort of protection. I've had people south of me overwinter with just a few Christmas tree boughs propped up against the plant. I need to experiment with just wrapping the plants with something like burlap. I just don't think a few layers of wrap would work for me, and that I need some genuine insulating ability. But at the same time, if I were to wrap it with enough layers of burlap, it would surely work. I wonder how many layers it would take? And how many it would take up in Vt?

Thanks.

Hay.

I thought of just burlap also, but with my lower winter temps and windy location and snow, freezing rain and rain I think just burlap would not be enough. I am thinking that with enough layers of burlap (or something similiar) and then a wrap of plastic maybe with some holes for venting (or something similiar). In early spring as temps begin to warm one could remove the plastic very easily. Then as temps continued to warm one could gradually remove the burlap one layer at a time. Until you are down to the final layer of burlap which would filter the sun on the tender new growth. Or there is thermal blanket material? I am sure there is something which would work out nicely.

Hay I have friends well north of you who live 10 minutes west of Boston (zone 6) and they don't do any winter protection to their Nikkos and most years they usually will flower on the previous years wood. I think the key is that their gardens are well protected by the house, garage, fence and a very large pine grove which surrounds their house.

Thats it, later today I have some gardening to do and I'll take a close look at the old Nikkos.

A couple more thoughts: What has bothered me is the unequal greening on the old wood with Nikko's #1 and #2. On uncovering, my first instant thought was that the naked canes or the buds were dead on the SouthEast side. Why would only the North and West sides be well leafed out? It is not normal. Plants don't usually work that way. So I think the SE side suffered some kind of trauma. And probably not from the cold which I was trying to protect them from.

If I look at other perennial shrubs they all leaf out uniformly from the bottom of the canes and then to the tip. One side is not slower than any other side. It is an equal process.

Here is what I am thinking. I don't think the SE side is slow because of the cold and wind...I think it is from the HEAT generated by the black plastic bags in full sun. This occured either in our warm early winter or in May. So the SE sides saw some big temperature differences. In retrospect I probably should have pulled the bags 2-3 weeks sooner and the burlap would have proctected them from and errant late spring frost. The North and West sides received like zero direct sun and are doing fine.

Plants can do some pretty funny things to protect themselves in order to survive and I think the SE side went into a stasis or a slow-down mode when confronted with the heat. After a full week I can now see more of the previously naked canes slowly sprouting green from their buds. But very slowly. Nikko # 1 now has green growth on 75% of its canes while Nikko # 2 is still at 45%.

I'll know more later but I won't know much until they flower. Cheers, JK

Thanks,

I am in Glastonbury, centrally located. We usually get the mixed bag of precipiattion and weather, and at times consistent, prolonged below freezing runs. Most of my plants, I wrapped in two to 3 layers, and was pleasantly surprised. I have 6 black stemmed hydrangeas, the first year I bought them, I had no flowers. Since that time, with the leaf method and now burlap, it had made a world of difference.

Ok got some photos. Go to http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z49/jk4000z/?uploadtab=video

Spent a few hours in the garden yesterday and took my first very close look at the Nikkos.

All the Hydrangeas have been uncovered for 8 full days now.

Old Nikkos #1 and #2 got the corral and bags and have uneven greening from the old canes. Some canes look dead and some have very few buds. Some buds keep popping open and I'll know more in a couple weeks, but I am sure I will lose at least 20% or more of the canes and buds. I think they fried in the heat???

The 2 year olds got the flat box method and are doing fine though waywardly growing.

I used photobucket because you can easily enlarge the photos by clicking on "full size" on upper left for a good look at the old Nikkos canes and buds.

I'd appreciate any input since this was my first attempt at overwintering Nikko Hydrangeas.

Again, I did find the flat box method to be a better method when applicable for me in VT.

With the corral & leaf bags I have some problems. I am not quite sure if the SE side got too much COLD or HEAT or a combination of BOTH. Temp extremes.

I think I was so concerned about the cold and winds that I did not fully recognize that the heat could significantly build-up in full sun and create high temps for the plant. I would guess the hot blast the old Nikkos gave off when removing the bags had to be 50 degrees hotter than the 75 degree air temps. It was like opening an oven door. Also the canes were very dry and I'm sure the plants were under stress. My best guess.

I suspect that more buds will pop green over the next couple weeks but that some canes are dead or near to it. If I get a 20% loss that would be fine and jolly for me, but it could be more.

I think a 2 stage method might be better. First a good wrap of burlap or something similiar or better for the initial frosts. And then when the real cold temps set in cover that with bagged leaves or a good insulator to protect the canes and buds from the very cold and winds. For a month or so the 4 ft corrals were completely covered under snow.

Then in spring when your average spring begins to have regular mid-40's to 50's highs and mid 20's at night begin to remove the bags since the burlap should save the canes from the moderate cold and frosts. Then as it warms just move the burlap a layer at a time.

I think I should have removed the bags 2-3 weeks earlier. I keep learning. Cheerio, JK

I don't think it's looking like you got most of the flowering tips of the corraled ones through the winter. It's those buds at the tips that you want to get through the Winter and they should be looking like the tips of the ones you flattened by now. I think I see some tips on your first picture, though.

And the ones you flattened seem to have done just fine. I'm so glad to see that you exposed them to the sun right away and they look just fine. That helps me a lot.

I don't have consistently good luck with my corrals and I don't always know why. I have much better success with my mounds. One of the reasons for my better luck with the mounds, I think, is that I have a much larger volume of space that I'm trying to keep the temperature moderated and teh bigger space, close to the earth, too, is easier to moderate than a very small space like your corraled one.

Good luck. Thanks so much for sharing your experience. We'll keep working at it til we get it.

Hay

I did not realize it was the very end tips of the canes I was really trying to save. Missed that somehow? I had thought it could flower from the lower buds on the old canes too??? Yeah, the end tips did take a beating.

Full sun after uncovering was not a problem and for the first 2 days they had some hot sun. With the 2 yr Nikkos it only took about 6-7 days for them to get to a good green and the canes to start getting woody. The initial white/yellow greened quickly.

All in all I find the close to the ground methods work the best as the covered ground will help to moderate their winter temps and keep them out of the cold and wind. The closer to the ground the better which your mound method addresses well.

I think inconsistency with the corral and leafy bags has too many variables and that is why you and I find it inconsistent. Also, despite the insulating bags the plant does take the full brunt of winter standing upright and my winters are I think just too cold for a consistent success with corrals. Keep 'em down close to the ground and insulated on top. The 2 yr Nikkos only had a layer of cardboard and a bag of leaves as insulation and snow on top. In contrast the Old Nikkos had 15 bags each and burlap that did not fully spare them. Being upright and fully in the winter elements was their doom. Of cuurse the 2 Old Nikkos have never looked better here. They were not protected at all and all the canes and buds were completely dead come spring. The buds were always shrunken and freeze dried and new growth only came from the base of the plant.

In a warmer zone or a well protected area the corrals might have better results than I had. It was a nice experiment and my first year thinking about Hydrangeas and I've learned alot, considering 1 year ago I knew nothing. Thanks alot Hay for your great info.

I would not bother doing corrals again for up here in VT unless it was a very well protected micro climate and even then I would not prefer the corral. Keep 'em close to the ground. I was really quite surprised on how well the flat-box Nikkos fared and in time... it is 5 minutes per plant.

Hope all this might be of help for anyone growing Nikkos in a colder zone, Cheers, JK

ps: Hay, Do you think digging-up Old Nikko #1 this fall is doable? I expect its roots must be very large? Got a special techinque?

It's not always just the tips of the canes that will give you flowers in a season, but I think that it's generally true that the larger terminal buds will almost always flower, and that many of the other buds close to the tip of the cane will flower. On my old Nikkos, I might get a cluster of 5 or so flowers on the ends of the canes.

But it's not always just that simple. If I remember correctly, I think I read something from Dirr about how someone would cover just the bottom of the shrub with a pile of leaves and get a large flowering from the buds hidden below, even though the top growth would get killed off. I can't say that I really understand it all.

I know someone who overwinters one of the white Macs and would cut it back really hard before they put it away for the winter. And it flowered nicely for them.

And many of the Macs will flower some later in the season from buds that seem to be formed this year.

All of this is just to show that I've got a lot to learn about this flowering. (And don't forget about Endless Summer.)

Your older Nikkos might not be fun to dig up. At the same time, they're not worth as much to you if you don't get a flower. The older ones I've dug up were not so happy for a year afterwards. The older they are, the more roots you'll be leaving behind and the worse it is for the plant. I use a 30 gallon plastic garbage bag to tie up the canes and to use like burlap for wrapping the root ball. I poke some holes in the plastic around the root ball for drainage. Or a big black plastic pot if you've got them. I use one of those snow sleds that every kid seems to have to drag plants like this around. You don't have to lift them that way.

If you're going to be seriously overwintering, why not start building up a little collection of very nice Hydrangeas? You're not restricted anymore to Nikkos (which didn't really work for us anyhow.)That's what makes it really worthwhile. Start with Rotschwanz or Blaumeise or Todi or........Next Spring buy a nice Hydrangea at the supermarket. Enjoy it inside for the Spring and then add it to your collection. I found some Merrit Supreme for six dollars at Home Depot the other day.

If you routinely dig up the plants in the Fall then the roots and the root ball will stay more compact and it's easier to deal with.

Good luck.

Hay

Well Hay, it has now been 17 days since I uncovered the Nikkos and progress has been rather rapid with the flat-boxed Nikkos. They even seem to be striving to grow upright, although I did stake one to see how that would do. These Nikkos also all have flower buds and are catching up to the unprotected ES.

The big Nikko's #1 & #2 are not doing as well. I'm counting them down, but not out. Many more of the old canes have sprouted new green growth, but it is a very slow process. Some old canes I would have said were dead; are sprouting green..but a very slow process. And no flower buds on them...yet. I'll wait and see what happens. The canes from 2 weeks ago which were sprouted have only grown more lush with more growth.

I think I should have uncovered them all around May 10th or so and not the 23rd. That later date puts them behind in development, as compared to the unprotected ES, I think.

The 10 ES I planted last year are very robust and all have flower buds too.

I'm not yet sold on over-wintering up here yet. I'll see how this crop does this summer and take it from there. For now I think I'll stick to remonetents, maybe I'll try a Blushing Bride, Cheers, JK

Yes Hay, I agree that keeping them close to the ground and covered allows the thermal benefits of the ground to keep the plant significantly warmer and out of the cold winter winds.

With the corral, despite the insulation, the plant is sticking right out in the worst winter weather without any ground thermal benefits. Probably the colder of a zone one is in, the more die-off one will see.

With the 2 old Nikkos I corralled, I lost 20% of the canes which are dead. Thereby 80% of the canes have green growth and since I never previously had a single cane survive winter thats pretty good for me up here.

Now it is a wait-and-see game to see if they produce any flowers. Why I would be thrilled to see just one flower. Cheerio, JK

Hi Hay - It's about time I checked in and report as a disciple of your "Overwintering methods" - my hat off to you!

I started Monday after Mom's Day, I undressed my , now 17y/o Nikko, gradually and to my delight, most of her limbs survived and already leafing out - pale green!!! As you suggested I dropped the burlap just to her feet for a quick shawl in case Ma nature lashes out. By the end of May she was well on her way - the arbor I built over her last summer helped protect from sudden sun exposure.

I followed the same method for the marginally tender Lacecaps (3Big Smile & 1 Purple Tiers) I encaged Little Elf with leaf mulch but did not wrap in burlap - she got zapped by the April's return to Winter as she was just coming out - bounced back only to shrink back from the heat wave in late Jun. She has 2 live stems about 3" tall.

Nikko is the biggest success as I've never seen her so full of buds in all the years since the kids gave her to me in 1990 - by full I mean 15 clusters and still a couple forming. Some smaller than others a few have opened fully, 1 almost as large as a snack plate and the color is half lavender & half pink - the rest of the fully bloomed are just light pink (I'll deal with changing color in 2008) I'm just tickled with the verdict!!!

The surprise bonuses are the successful results on the Lacecaps all are putting on a great show, even the one I relocated in early May did not take time to catch up - full of blooms that opens up each day!

The Purple Tiers (MyM H) that I brought home from NC and planted in late Oct 2006 did very well and is blooming though blossoms are smaller than the Big Smile (about 2-21/2" diam) and a new clusters are opening up without the fertile centers ... some clusters of florets are quite beautiful. MyM must have blossomed early - when I returned from a month vacation to NC some of the fertile clusters have dried up (hot & dry last wk of Jun).

I'm a bit disappointed with the 2 ES and 2 F&E only 1 of each decided to bloom and 1cluster on 1 ES and 2 beautiful ones on 1 F&E. Also observed that the stems on F&E seem heftier than ES's. I may have to protect them a bit more this Fall, huh? I didn't think they needed heavy blankets.

So thank you for your patient guidance, Hay!!!

Thank you too to everyone in this H forum for all the help we newbies received as we venture into this delightful addiction!!!

Jack, your experience is reminding me of my beginning efforts maybe 20 years ago. I laugh now thinking of my trying to corral my largest one with just the bags of leaves and a rope. No fencing to keep it in. And my first effort at making a corral enclosure to lay down the plants. There I was trying to stack plastic bags of dry leaves, free-standing. Try it some time if you think it's easy.

Ditas, that's great. Maybe you've said, but just exactly what did you do? Did you just use leaves in a corral without bags? Maybe you've already said and I'll go back and find out. And did you try to protect all the plants that you've mentioned?

I've just about stopped overwintering plants in the ground. A lot of my more interesting plants are kept in pots and are a nice size for a patio. I have big old Nikko types that are in 15 gallon size pot and I can grow a plant in there that is just as large as any of the ones you would expect to see in a landscape. These are heavy and take a couple of men to pick up and place or anyone could drag them around in a kid's sled. I place the larger ones, in a black plastic pot that gets hidden with the other foliage around it, in the back of the border. All of these get laid down together for the winter and with this many plants, it's easier to keep them all together. Many of the plants I can dig up and replant each year. They overwinter in the same place. With these, by digging them up and replanting them, the root ball stays nice and tight and is easy to deal with.

If you overwinter your hydrangeas, a really, really nice benefit is that you can then not have to stick to the three or so varieties out that that are hardy. If you don't want to overwinter, then try Endless Summer for a mophead and Blue Billow for a lacecap.

Here's a picture of {{gwi:1023477}} that's in a pot now. It's a sport of Madame Emile Mouillere and has frilly edge. I've been adding aluminum sulphate to it, but I don't know if it would have a pink tint if I didn't. With my overwintering, the Nikkos seem to flower first, and now other things are coming out, like this Frillibet. Having other possibilites to grow is the great bonus of overwintering.

Good luck.

Hay

Hi Hay - Many thanks for your continued interest in the results of our 'Overwintering' efforts.

I actually followed step by step guide from your 'Overwintering tutorial' thread. Armed with several nylon p'hoses, yards of burlap fab, plastic coated garden fencing wire mesh, huge bag of pine needles and of course, bags of the collected and dried Autumn leaves and finally a lg size rose cone for her top hat - single handedly, I started with the minuet dance around Nikko with the nylon hose (tied together into a long cord) several times (under her arbor, no less and with boom-box playing a favorite ... "Scarborough Fair" - LOL, even my neighbor got a good laugh!)around and around I went - had to wrap the hose once around some heftier stems to help keep the bundle tight (still not as tight as you did yours, I was too chicken to pull harder) as seen from your posted photos. So I dropped pine needles between her woods up to her knee and wrapped her with burlap - 2x around and as suggested by Jack411 tie with bedsheet strips as the nylon hose will give ... then wire caging followed with enough room for the bags of dried Autumn leaves (I used smaller opaque white bags) and since the cage was only about 2.5ft high I had to add another layer of burlap for the top fourth of the bundle and finally put on her rose cone top hat .... whew!

I did not follow as meticulously for the 4 Lacecaps - just created cages for each, dropped pine needles and loose dried Autumn leaves in the cage to the top and wrapped the cages with 2 layers of burlap.

I fought the urge to undress them during those weeks of Mar when we were zooming up to near 80s - I did fluff up their leaf covers and the patience paid off - all Lacecaps are delightfully full of blooms.

Nikko's problem now is the heatwave we all are going through. I put an arbor over her but only the Sweet Autumn Clem I planted on the E leg has taken off amazingly - don't know why the one on the W leg is taking her old sweet time. So I'm a slave to Nikko once more - climbing up a ladder daily, bet noon and 3PM, to throw the landescaping fabric over the W half of the arbor to protect the beautiful blossoms from burning.

I read a post you did about the difficulty of digging up to relocate an old Nikko. By next season I am hoping for the SA Clem to do a more aggressive climb and perhaps get a larger umbrella shaped pergola ... which means more $$$$ for a 12 or 15 $ florist Nikko 17 years ago ... if that is not insanity .... LOL!!!

Ditas, It sounds like you have done very well with your overwintering. Congrats!

Hay, Funny, I did think of going without a corral. But, I figured a corral would be better.

This year I am just taking it slow and seeing how the Nikkos and ES do up here. Thus far the flatboxed Nikkos and all my ES are doing splendidly. I just keep learning a little at a time.

Corrals? I've been thinking that for up here I might use something different than the bagged leaves. We'll see later, Thanks, Jack

Hi Jack - 'Been wondering how much sun does your Nikkos & ESs get? Do they collapse and burn if they are in the sun? Over here, her beautiful florets on her largest & earliest bloom are getting fried around the edges - the reason I have been covering with garden fab. during the hottest hrs of these, scorchingly, hot days.

The SA Clematis is trying her fastest to crawl over the top of the arbor and the slowpoke on the other leg finally figured out her purpose!!!

TIA

Hey, Ditas, They get full sun from 9-5 and they have lottsa flowers. This year I have not yet had a wilt problem at all. I did have a couple 90+ days when a couple had a very slight wilt, but by 7PM they had bounced back. This is their 2nd year in the ground here. I keep reading here about people having no or few flowers on their ES and I have a feeling that sun does have something to do with it, although I am not 100% sure.

Last year, their first year, was very different as I did have heavy-duty wilt on any hot days, like over 85. I think that this year their root system is more mature and I should add that I have had a fairly wet summer so far. I have not watered at all. Also, it has been somewhat cool too. I have only had a couple days that were 90+ and maybe only 7 or so which were around 85 with the rest being below that. My average July high temp is around 75. Like today the high will be 72. And the whole next week is forecast in the mid-70's.

I think you have had much hotter weather and sun than I have had so far and that would make a big difference. My previous 3 days were high in the 80's with very high humidity and I had no wilt at all. Cheerio, JK

Thanks for your prompt response - you know what, IMO ES loves your VT Summers - cooler even under the sun all day :) !!! I have mentioned in another link my disappointment with ES & F&E for being so stingy with blooms but 'just remembered last Sept before taking off for NC one of the ES surprised me ... threw a beautiful show of buds, when I returned a month after all the full, 5-6" blossoms w/stood the early chills, stood strong until first frost. So perhaps I'm being unfair... patience ... and hope for another late season surprise huh?

The 2 blooms on F&E are growing prettier by the day ... kind of redeems herself!!!

On another related observations in this thread - you wrote:

"A couple more thoughts: What has bothered me is the unequal greening on the old wood with Nikko's #1 and #2. On uncovering, my first instant thought was that the naked canes or the buds were dead on the SouthEast side. Why would only the North and West sides be well leafed out? It is not normal. Plants don't usually work that way. So I think the SE side suffered some kind of trauma. And probably not from the cold which I was trying to protect them from."

My Nikko has more blossoms on the N side than the S ... is it the sun she got in early Spring before the trees leafed out? She now measures 3.5'htx5'2e-w/wd several limbs squeek by the confines of the arbor width. The other smaller clusters I earlier reported are getting almost as large as the first few to open up in Jun!!! I'll definitely try alum sulf next season ... 'wonder why it won't work application in the Fall?

Hurray! Here in the MidW we got a bit of respite from heat even if good old sun still burns!

Great day!

Link to photo is below:

Now this is the 2 yr Nikko which I did not protect and I did expect it to have zero flowers. But here is is sporting this one flower for the past 3 weeks. The real color is blue but my cameras flash bleached it to white. I can only guess that some old growth survived although in early May it looked like it had died back to the ground.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z49/jk4000z/000_0026.jpg

Here is a photo of a 2 yr Nikko which I protected overwinter with a flatbox and a bag of leaves. Right now it has 7-8 flowers forming on it on last years growth.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z49/jk4000z/000_0029.jpg

This is what it looked like around May 23, about a week after uncovering it.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z49/jk4000z/000_0017

When I first uncovered it; it was all white and yellow but began greening up within a week. I did not filter the sunlight and it sparked right up. Possibly in warmer zones you might want to filter the sunlight for a couple days on the uncovered white growth???

Ciao, JK

Ok, here it is. Rare to have an unprotected Nikko have a flower up here, but here it is and I have a feeling I may get a few more flowers:

It is now July 16th and a couple observations:

My 2 old 2 year plus Nikkos have yet to set a developing flower. They are big and bushy and with the added growth which did not die off are nearly 5 ft wide and 3 ft tall. But no flowering..yet. These were corraled overwinter and 80% of the canes survived to give green growth, but no flowers yet.

The 2 young Nikkos which were protected overwinter are getting nice and big and leafy and each has about 7-8 small developing flowers and I would expect there will be more to come soon. Compared to unprotected ES they are slow to grow and flower.

One unprotected Nikko has had 1 blooming flower now for 2 weeks and I don't quite fully understand that and it is near the top of the plant (above photo), not the bottom???

My 9 unprotected ES are all doing just GREAT! They have all been blooming away like crazy the last couple weeks and each sports 10-15 blooms at the moment with more small developing flowers which will start blooming in a couple weeks I guess. Some of the flowers are 8-10 inches in diameter. They are the main event and do very well in my VT climate.

These unprotected young ES are all weeks ahead of the protected young Nikkos in size and flower production although they are in the same garden and are the same age.
Side by side the difference is rather staggering.

The one ES which I did protect is the star with over 3 dozen flowers and it began it's flowers very early as compared to the unprotected ES.

I will wait out the Nikkos to see how they do but at this moment---unprotected ES is out way ahead of the Nikkos like there is absolutely no comparison between the two, up here. The ES put on quite the show up here and are prolific compared to the Nikkos.

I have read here from others having ES problems but I have just not experienced any. I expect that in the future I will be replacing my Nikkos with ES or Penny Mac's and I'll probably try other proven remontents, Cheers, Jack

Hi Jack - Amazing!!! to think that all I could to speak of my 2 ES, is 1 bloom and not even the size of a saucer at that. Your VT conditions must be ideal for ES!!! Our local nurseries all agreed, to give time for ES to establish ... perhaps next season - after all, I gave Nikko all these years to finally put on her show, why not ES.

I tend to favor the lacecaps anyway ... less challenging winter protection ... I find their blooms intriguing and quite charming and some, down right gorgeous ... hold themselves erect even after a storm. I certainly love my H Paniculatas, even my 2 Tardivas are opening up their buds - perhaps due to the hot days we have been getting these past weeks. They both budded early but I didn't expect such an early show too :-)) !

Do you have any of these hardy variety?

Hi ditas, No I don't have any hardy varieties yet. Hydrangeas are a new plant for me and I am taking my time and seeeing how they develop. I have read so many mixed results here with ES that I don't want to jump too quickly into other hydrangeas yet.

As my 10 young ES are beginning to take up more real estate I will have to move them early next spring.

Nice to read your protected old Nikko has some blooms, my 2, 12 year plus protected ones still have nary a bloom, but plenty of green leaves. Cheerio, JK

Oh Jack - you have to have at least 1, for their lacey, airy look ... Dirr described them as "as easy to culture as crab grass" - cold hardy to z3!!! We deserve a few that do not need all the challenges & coddling for our kind of Winters. If you like the mophead look there are a few to choose from ... Silvergold has quite a collection ... I'm kind of following her choices as I consider myself a new disciple in a similar Z - I even planted a climbing one in '06(patience needed for this one ... very slow) to eventually cover a 36ft long 3ft tall retaining wall, we just had redone last year.

I'm deminishing my mowing real estate and digging up some of my ever growing population of hostas to replace with lacecaps!

A great day for us ... respite from our on going heat wavvvve!!!
Cheers!

Jack, Ditas is so absolutely right! H. Paniculatas are absolutely beautiful and hardy! I am absolutely in love with them. Even my Limelight, which is planted in an open location that has harsh wintry winds, is doing very well, even just after one year! (it was planted last year from a 2-3 gallon pot). This year, I went crazy and bought myself a Little Lamb, Pink Diamond and a Snow Mountain tree to keep my Limelight accompanied!

Gosh, this is so addictive... :-)

Ditto Ostrich!!! And we are enabling each other to boot LOL <:->My 2007 damage (I call it food money ... I'm eating dirt!): Alice Querci (planned for her since last Fall), Quick Fire (I couldn't find Angel's Blush), Blushing Bride (tho not a hardy - saw and fell for her, when I was supposed to be checking out Glowing Embers) ... and still picking up nice little perennials that happen to tickle fancy ( to combo with H)! May Day was a good excuse, so was Mem. Day, then it's my sis Bday - a Rainbow Knock Out to think of her by ... it goes on!

To think that I'm supposed to be so deliriously happy ... all my hardy Hs and lacecaps are full of blossoms& buds (1 of the 3 Big Smile is turning to merlot!), and our little princess Kyushu is attracting so much attention ... oh and both my Tardivas are opening up! ... and still have enough energy to drool over your and George's Claudie ... Jogasaki too!

What is a "Snow Mountain tree", Ostrich?

Ditas, I need to find that Jogasaki! It is so absolutely gorgeous!!! :-)

Now, what else do I need... err... want, rather!? I don't NEED anything else, but I WANT:

1. Quick Fire
2. Pinky Winky
3. Big Smile
4. Blue Billow
5. Tokyo Delight
6. Pink Double Knockout (OK, not a hydrangea but I want her regardless! LOL)

Well, well, well.... so many hydrangeas, so little time (and space!) LOL

Ditas, the Snow Mountain is basically an allegedly "improved" version of the Kyushu tree. It is supposed to have larger and denser flowers than the Kyushu tree, and a bit more heat tolerant too.... ALLEGEDLY! LOL Anyway, I found it locally and it was so beautiful that I just had to have it, esp. after reading your story on Princess Kyushu! LOL!

Right after I bought my Snow Mountain, I found a Pink Diamond tree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I almost died when I saw that. However, I truly do not have any space for another tree, so I actually did not buy it... I was so proud of myself for exerting self-control that evening... :-)

Good night!

Congratulations on 'reason over heart' ... wonder how I would have done if I found Angel's Blush after taking home Quick Fire??????!!!!!!

How does SM hold herself with her dense headwear? How tall is she?

Haven't heard from Silvergold lately ... I think she has PD but 'not sure if hers is a tree form.

On Big Smile, I'm observing that the amount of sun exposure may be driving the speed of color changes. All 3 are in the S fence shaded by trees but get AM sun and dappled around the noon and early PM then again get some setting sun. It's kind of fun to see 3 in graduated color changes!

I have 6 Knock Outs - 4 of original bright magenta (had to move 2 in May, to a less sunny sites and are still adjusting to new home), 1 bright pink (luminous too) and 1 rainbow (light pink with splash of pale yellow centers) all are profusely surging again after a short period of rest. I partnered the luminous pink with Tardiva - a birdbath between them ... simply wonderful together :-))) !!!!!

2 Bright magenta KO are about 6-7ft behind 'Li'l princess Kyu' and farther back is my other Tardiva w/ Luna Blush (hibiscus) beside (these 2 are competing I may have to find Luna another sunny site.

There, I'm giving you a reason to treat yourself or think of someone dear to remember in your piece of soil with ... pink KO is it! If only I knew how to post pics ....

Hi Ditas!

It is always so much fun to read your post - I love your very vivid descriptions of things!

The SM tree is already about 6'+ tall. She is holding up her dense headwear (wig!? LOL) very well. How big is your Princess Kyu? (what a rude question to ask about a princess!!! Ouch...)

Ditas, I have 2 Double Knockout roses and I absolutely adore them! Such non-stop bloomers and disease-resistant wonders. The new foliage is gorgeous too - I love the burgundy color. They even tolerate partial shade, unlike most roses. I have a pink KO in a big pot, because I just had to have it last year, but I still don't have a place for it! Now, though I am not a huge fan of the Rainbow KO, but I would love to have the other new KO - the Pink Double KO! I love the double form so much more than the original form. There is only one local nursery that carries it, and they are demanding a premium for it too! Oh dear... maybe I should really just wait until next year... LOL

Thank you Ostrich - perhaps to make up for being a computer idiot - still don't know how you post photos directly. A few others have links we can click on ... some of them I can't open such as those with little blue boxes with a ? in the box.

I like describing our Li'l Princess Kyu as '5ft2 and very cute too' - could be just a HAIR taller because of her fluffy veil. On the other side of our driveway, opposite our g-dau's, I created another island patch and planted a young, very handsome, plum colored 'Royal Raindrops' crab apple tree (blooms deliciously pink that forms to pea size fruits for the birds in Winter) my g-dau calls him Princess Kyu's royal prince.

I'll check out Bailey's KO site as I'm not sure if what I have are double or not (I got them because of the testimonials from an article I read ... the promises are hard to pass up and she delivers indeed!!!) The Rainbow I dedicated to my sis, is so much like a Carefree Delight shrub and Apple Blossom carpet, that I adore... I tend to like the single petal blossoms as they look like buttleflies. I have given up on hybrid teas ages ago when I got too busy with kids' activities ... roses require so much TLC and I got tired fighting those microscopic critters that like to taunt me!!!!! If only Bayer's 3-in-One was available then! The last 2 still standing from my R days (neither are Teas) are very dear to me - I planted 'Fashion' 1989 dedicated for last child to leave for college.

OOOOps this is supposed to be Hay's Hydrangea O/W threat right?

G'night!!!! <:->

Hi Ditas!

You're absolutely right - we did hijack Hay's thread!!! Ouch! So sorry, Hay!

Let's talk somewhere else on another thread...

And Hay, thanks for all the great discussion and information on overwintering! That was very helpful indeed.

Hi Hay - It's back to 'Overwintering' time once more - I just spent time harvesting my old Nikko's huge, matured blossoms for a wreath I plan to create with them.

I have started bagging fallen leaves - for old Nikko when I remembered that someone posted, yet, another method of protection, using PVC pipes and some kind of cloth. I neglected to bookmark the thread ... I wonder if he responded to your inquiry?

My Nikko has grown quite some - am looking for a wee bit easier method of winter protection. The Sweet Autumn Clematis crawled over Nikko's arbor beautifully thick and will be a nice blanket overhead for her this Winter ... not a substitute for the rose-cone she wore for a head gear last Winter ... SA will also act as a great wind breaker.

/Users/Ditas/Pictures/iPhoto Library/2007/09/06/IMG_1032.JPG

I wonder if you can open this attached photo.

TIA on info about PVC and ?? cloth method!

Ditas, I don't think the person ever went into more detail than PVC and felt. I am guessing he wrapped the plant upright in felt and used the PVC for a tripod type of tent? My best guess anyway.....jk

Thanks for the response Jack I'm wondering about the felt - it has got to be weather resistant or something to survive winter and also allow plant to breathe ... what might be your guess?

I might go to HD and inquire. Our overnite temps have started zooming down and have been closely watching the marginally bloom tenders - so far the days are still dealable and sunny until this coming week ... they are predicting a good drop so I have to hussle and get going on installing their cages!!!

BTW how did you figure how to post your photo ... I wish I could figure how as I have gzillion photos in my Iphoto file.

Good night!

Hi Jack - Tis me again, good AM! - I went to Menard's and inqired about a felt for tender plant protection and all they could suggest is the landescaping fabric - 'thought I will try as the material will allow breathing as well as strength I just wonder about insulating ability. I saved my burlap wraps from last season, some got tattered (will use for smaller plants) I'll not try PVC tubes - too much mechanical work for old me - plastic coated wire fencing is simpler so I picked up another roll ... now to work on them - just the cages for now!!!

Well Ditas, I am thinking about this a little more. Perhaps if one tied up the plant using Hays walk-around-method and then wrapped it with felt or any suitable material. Then if you had a piece of PVC with an 8" or so diameter and 3 ft or so in length; one could encapsulate the plant and felt with the PVC. That would be pretty sturdy and wind and wet proof. Now that seeems to make sense to me.

Hi Jack - Thanks for you thoughts! - I did do the 'walk around the bush with ties 'n burlap method' last fall, the only way I could have accomplished the feat singlehandedly! I did take your advice on wide strips of old bedsheets! The cage I created is of the sturdy gauged, coated wires - held the smaller bagged leaves quite well and topped with a large, corrugated-board type, rose cone - Nikko looked like an ugly snowlady under an arbor.

Nikko has grown every which way with tons of fat buds this year. I may use my extra long bamboo poles to create a teepee with the landescaping fab inside the cage, before putting on her 'cone hat'. the thick 'n fuzzy Swt Autumn Clematis over the arbor should help too, I think.

Did you ever pick up a hardy H this season - if you did, which did you decide on?

Good Am to everyone hard at work on 'overwintering' efforts! We got blasted all day yesterday by intermitent brrrrr winds!!! Overnite low 20s will prevail for a few more <:- brrrrrrrrr ... upside is dry n sunny for gathering leaves>I called around (HD, Lowes, etc & even all the plant nurseries) about this mysterious 'mill felt' that Phil used in protecting his bloom tender Hs (I supposed in place of burlap) no one had any idea ... Phil may have responded back to Hay's inquiry on his method of 'Overwintering' but I can't remember which thread it was. Would anyone know what mill felt is?

I picked up a roll of landescaping fab (thin-felt like & sturdier than burlap) to use as wind barrier around the wire cages of my marginally-bloom-tender Lacecaps.
TIA for any ideas on 'Mill felt' !

Hi Ditas, Not sure exactly what "mill felt" is but I bet if you stop by a large fabric store like a Joannes Fabric you will find some.

No, I didn't get any new Hydrangeas this year. I just have my 10 ES and 3 Nikkos and 2 huge Nikkos. Although I did the corral method with the 2 large Nikkos---it did not work and I got zero blooms. I'm thinking of flat-boxing them but that takes up alot of garden real estate, like a circuliar diamer of 10 feet. I might move 'em in a week or 2 or I might dig 'em up and junk 'em. Cheerio, JK

Hi Jack - Guess what? ... I found the thread where Phil posted about his PVC & mill felt method ... also had his email address in his post - so I send him my ??? directly and here is part of his reply:

Ditus
..... "The felt I get is from the papermill I work at and isn't for sale to the public. I have 52 blue mop heads in a cold climate, and they have flowered for 4 summers. You must protect the nodes. I recommend the ES as the blue mop head of choice."
Phil

No wonder no one had an idea what I was inquiring about. I tried several other places including a paper supply co. etc,etc,etc! I'll stick with burlap.

I've encaged all my bloom tenders and just covered the top lightly with burlap for the overnite low 20s ... will seriously put them to bed as soon as they drop their foliage - be around T'giving time here.

My handsome & old Gingo tree barely, slipped on his golden cloak when Mother Nature said "Drop it!" ... he must have obediently done it overnite ... he was bare & his golden cloak piled neatly around his feet ... LOL!!! No stinky fruits to rake this year ... I was saved by the 2wk freeze last Apr.

G'nite