Good suggestions. I don't cut my milk jug all the way around, leave a little hinge just under the handle. Then when I open them up, I peg them to the ground. If it gets cold again, it's easier to tape it shut again for late frosts and you probably don't have to tape it as thoroughly as initially. I save my containers and use them again, and the right kinds of tops are with the right jugs. What I'm wrestling with is that I decided I want to sow a lot of seeds in oversized cell packs. I have the trays that match but no holes in them. Anyway, I don't want to preset anything to hold plastic up and over them now, and the ground will be frozen when I set my jugs out in about Feb to poke anything down in. I've been looking around and the only thing I have to keep the plastic a couple inches off (or just an inch might be ok) the surface of the cell packs to keep from crushing the new growth would be some bricks, some old glass blocks. Can anybody think of what might work better that is easy/free/cheap? I think saran wrap would be too thin for those and have some clear plastic in a roll that is probably too heavy, maybe w/slits in it heavy would be ok. I can get something in between. The reason I want to sow in cell packs is for some of my seeds that resent transplanting to have a better chance and save me work later. I sometimes start in those trays you talked about w/covers (from McD's salads, KFC etc.) They work great. Sometimes I plant directly into the ground but some I like to transplant individually into cell packs so they can grow on, very tedious. Sowing directly into cell packs would save me that step. One trick I learned for spring sowing but should work equally well for winter sowing is to plant in the deli containers, then fill 16 oz plactic cups w/drainage holes punched in the bottom partway up with potting soil. Then use a spatula & dull knife and work a chunk of seedlings out of the tray and just set it on top of the soil, the roots will find it easy to work on down. Then I let grow on for awhile and plant with a bulb planter. That would work well for people whose gardens are crowded or whatever. I have to make things as easy on myself as possible or it won't all get done.

Five years has been pretty reliable for me also, but my beans are stored in ziplock freezer bags, in dark boxes (and in a file cabinet) in an air conditioned room. Using this method, it's important to squeeze out as much air as possible whenever the bags are opened, and to open them as seldom as possible. Freezing is the best method of long-term storage, and has the added benefit of killing any weevils which might be present in any of the seed. It is important that the beans are dried to a low moisture content before freezing, and that the seed container is airtight. I would recommend that the container be just large enough to hold the seed; the less air inside, the better. Keep in mind, before removing any seed from frozen storage, the entire container - still sealed - must be warmed to room temperature. Storage life can be influenced by many factors. Seed from diseased plants will likely have a shorter life, as will poorly developed seed, and seed exposed to frost or excessive moisture during the period the pods are drying. I use plastic bags for beans, but they must never be placed in direct sunlight with seed enclosed... heat buildup can cause seed death very quickly. If you think any of the beans might have been exposed to some of these conditions, it would be best to plant those varieties first. Such seed might be shrunken, discolored, or have a dull seed coat. Regardless of where the beans are stored, they should be kept dark, cool, and dry.

Just an update... the beans mentioned above (or most of them) suddenly took off like a shot. The night temperatures had gone up, which I believe caused the growth spurt. As I mentioned above, I have been trying three yardlongs from the Philippines, one from Malaysia. The Malaysian variety, "Long White Snake", appears to be either very long season, or daylength sensitive - while the vines are rampant, it has yet to bloom. The foliage is lush, so it might be good for those who cook the leaves... if it gets no pods before frost, I may try it. The Philippine yardlongs (and several other Philippine vegetables also trialed this year) have succeeded far beyond my expectations. "Galante" is a strong climber, with very straight, medium-green pods with a somewhat rough exterior. They grow up to 24" long in harvestable stage, and develop seeds very slowly, so they remain tender for a fairly long period. When cooked, they stay firm, and are slightly sweet. Galante "Sierra Madre" does not climb as strongly, more of a half-runner habit. Its crop is borne mainly close to the ground... but the beans are full-sized, 20-24". They are dark green, wrinkled, and grow very large (as wide as snap beans) while remaining tender. When cooked, they shrink somewhat, and resemble snap beans in both flavor & texture. For those in the deep South where snap beans struggle, and those who don't like the flavor of most yardlongs, this could be a good alternative. Sierra Madre - note the 3/8" rebar for size comparison Comparison of the pods - both are close to 24" when stretched out I cooked both of them using the same recipe, with pork, onions, garlic, and soy sauce. Surprisingly, "Sierra Madre" developed a dark, flavorful broth as it cooked down. The last variety couldn't exactly be called "yardlong"; the pods are only 7-8" long at prime stage. "Bush Sitao Var. BS-3" has pods are medium-green, with a somewhat rough exterior that closely resembles "Galante". I had wondered if it would turn out to be a true bush... the photo tells all. Bush Sitao Var. BS-3 Haven't tried this cooked yet... but raw, the pods are extremely crunchy, with a mildly sweet flavor. I am mostly letting the pods grow for seed (other than some taste testing) but the plant's habit seems to indicate a very high yield potential if kept picked. Sierra Madre (left) vs. Galante (right) taste test (w/bitter melon, egg & tomato in background) Hey, who said testing had to be dull? ;-)

The cleaning & sorting are finally done, so these are the results. This will cover everything except cowpeas, yardlongs, and soybeans, so my apologies for the length. After germinating normally, all beans, and most cowpeas, went through an extended period of stunting for most of June & part of July. The degree of stunting, and its duration, varied substantially between varieties; many were over a month behind. Because of this, I considered DTMs this year to be aberrations from the norm, and did not record them. Common beans: * Bird Egg #3 - pole shelly. Initial planting with 2007 seed had poor germination. I culled the sub-standard 2010 seed (over 75% was discarded) and replanted the gaps, with good results. Plant spacing was 2 @ 12" this year, to judge the effect on yield & seed size. Seed size was notably smaller. The plants recovered from stunting & really took off in late Summer. The crop was much later than normal, and much was harvested after the first light frost; but I froze 20 pints of shellies, and harvested 5 pounds of dry seed. * Champagne - pole green snap. White seed. This was one of the first beans to recover from the stunting. When I first grew it, I observed that it had no trouble setting pods in our (admittedly moderate) heat, and that was verified in spades this year. Flat, green, Romano-type pods grew to 7-8" long, had great flavor, and the yield was heavy. However, this variety has a weakness: it is hard to get good seed from it. As in my original trial, about 75-80% of the dry seed was deformed, and had to be discarded; not sure if it is something in my soil or climate, but this is the only bean I've grown with this level of deformity, and it was repeated in different years. This might be the reason it was dropped commercially. * Clem & Sarah's Big Bean - bush dry/shelly. Somewhat rangy bushes, recovered fairly late from stunting, but still produced a fair crop. The white seeds are long & nearly cylindrical, about 3X as long as wide, many with blunt ends. The shape is so distinctive that I could probably mix them with Great Northern, and still separate them fairly easily. Since this was a seed increase, I only ate a few shellies; but those were sweet, and of good quality. * Czechoslovakian - pole purple snap. This was the least affected by the stunting, and growth was exceptionally vigorous in the heat. Flowering & pod set were heavy, and the pods showed no stunting whatsoever. I had previously grown this one in pots, and like Bosnian Pole before it, the increase in vigor when grown in fertile ground was striking. So was the seed increase; with over 5 pounds, it tied BE#3 for highest yield... but in only 16 feet of row, as compared to 72 for BE#3. I only ate one meal, wish I had tried freezing them. * Dolloff - pole shelly/dry. This was quick to recover from stunting, had a heavy pod set, and was the first pole bean to produce dry seed. I would estimate its DTM at about 90 days. While the seed quality was very good, the pods had poor seed count, probably due to the heat. This means the yield potential is most likely higher than what I observed... which would make it quite high. The seed is pink as a shelly, drying down orange -> tan w/brown spots. 12 feet of row yielded 4# 3 oz. * Fortex - pole green snap. This was severely impacted by the stunting; it was over a month late. I was picking yardlongs for several weeks before these even started (!!!) which is a reversal of what would happen in a normal year. They came on strong in September, so I was able to freeze a lot... still, the performance this year was disappointing. The row dedicated for dry seed produced 2 pounds, but more than half of the pods were still unripe when cut down by frost. * Isla - pole shelly/dry. In habit, pod, and seed, this resembles a slightly smaller, more purplish version of True Red Cranberry... I suspect they are closely related. It has a very late DTM, and being forced to recover from a severe hail storm this year certainly didn't help. There were no dry pods before the freeze, so I picked all of the pods that day & dried the ripest ones indoors. The seed appears to be mostly OK, about a pound or so. The flavor is really good, I wish this had a shorter DTM. * Light Brown Zebra - bush dry. This never really recovered from the stunting, and was far less vigorous than it was when I last grew it. The small seeds are beige with black stripes, held in pods which shrink down tightly around the seed as they dry & offer outstanding protection against rain. Collected a pound of seed, it should have been at least twice that. * Poletschka - pole, uncertain use. Started as transplants. I only grew a few plants in pots, and since I was trying for maximum seed increase, I only snacked on one pod raw. Can't remember my impressions of the taste, and apparently didn't write them down. :-( Green pods that shrink down tightly as they dry, with oblong, glossy, purple-black seeds that look almost metallic. The DTM was fairly late. With 3 ounces of seed, I hope to do a larger growout next year for seed increase & evaluation. * Portugal - pole shelly. Failed. This is a shelly similar to BE#3. The vines appeared to be diseased, so no seed was saved, and the plants were destroyed. * Schwarze Witwe - pole wax. I'm told that the name translates as "the veil of old widows", which is a reference to the seed coloration. This was stunted in June, then severely damaged by hail in early July just as it was beginning to climb. However, the plants sprouted new runners & made an impressive recovery. Small 4-5" yellow pods, curved, completely stringless in all stages. The seed is small, very glossy, with fine buff spotting over a deep purple/black background... almost the same purple/black color as Poletschka. Nearly all seed dried before frost, so under less difficult conditions, this should do well here. * Soissons Vert - pole shelly/dry. Finally got a large planting to mature!!! Seeds are lime green as shellies, pea green when dry. These were inexplicably trying to vine on the ground (one other pole bean did this), only beginning to climb in late July with considerable assistance on my part... after which they grew normally. They just made it before frost, but produced a heavy crop. Froze a lot of shellies (somewhere around 20 pints, I lost count) and collected over 4 pounds of dry seed. * Uzice - semi-bush shelly/dry. As discussed on a previous thread, I had to rename this. It was originally sent to me with no name, so I called it Serbian pole, after its place of origin... only to find out that name was already being used in Canada & the U.K. for a different bean (which I hope to grow in the future). Another seed saver in Canada had obtained the same seed from my source & named it Uzice, so I have followed suit. This cultivar was severely stunted, and while it never fully recovered, it still produced an OK crop. Allegedly this is a bush variety, but grown without support, I found the 4-5 foot runners to be unruly; I will probably grow it again on a trellis. The seeds are large, and resemble a slightly smaller version of Porcelain in coloration, mostly white seeds with a patch of tan with maroon specks around the hilum. That resemblance to Porcelain does not extend to the flavor; the shellies are sweet, firm, and of excellent quality. This was a fairly large planting (39 feet of row) but because of the severe yield reduction due to stunting, I didn't freeze any. Collected 3 pounds of dry seed, though, and had a couple meals of shellies just before frost. * Uzice Speckled Wax - pole wax. From the same GW source as Uzice above. These were started early as transplants. Like Soissons Vert, the plants were severely stunted early, and reverted to almost a bush habit until mid-July... at which time they sent out numerous creeping runners. Once trained to the trellis, these began climbing normally, and I would judge the vines as having fully recovered. Flat, curling, yellow, 6" Romano-type snaps of fine flavor. Good shellies, but had enough of other varieties that I didn't eat any. Was able to save 2.5 pounds of seed. * Woods Mountain Crazy Bean - bush snap. Glad I tried this in a hot year! Seeds were started as transplants. While they were stunted in early June, the plants were very quick to recover, and IMO were only minimally affected. Incredibly lush foliage, forming a dense canopy over the beans; planted on 12" centers, the canopies overlapped to completely obscure the ground. The branching was very heavy, like what I would expect of a pole bean or bush lima. The root system was the most extensive I have seen from a bush bean, which probably accounts for its heat tolerance. I was actually late finding the beans, since they were not visible until I tipped a plant over to examine it! The snaps are round, creaseback, 6" long, and borne in large numbers. The flavor was exceptional (comparing favorably with Fortex) with a moderately firm texture. My only complaint would be WMCB's late DTM, which made it a challenge to get dry seed... but then, I suspect this is a bean well adapted to the South, and poorly adapted here. The heavy canopy protected most of the pods from the first few frosts, so I was able to get 8 ounces of dry seed... but over half of the pods were lost to the hard freeze. While WMCB is too late for it to be practical here as snaps, it is a great bean for those in hot climates, and I will continue to grow it for preservation. Limas * Cave Dweller, Black Seed Coat - bush. A black-seeded variety from SSE's collection. Started from 2007 seed as transplants (peat strips with starter mix) and had poor germination. The seeds had been planted vertically (eye down) and seemed to have trouble breaking free. Replanted in pots filled to within 3/4" from the top with packed starter mix, laid seed on its side, and covered with screened play sand. This method resulted in about 90% germination, so it will be my default method for starting limas in the future. (Makes sense when you think about it, since flat seeds in nature would naturally fall on their sides.) These were transplanted into two locations; one of poor fertility, and one of better fertility. The best location was nearly flattened by hail, but the plants resprouted vigorously, and still surpassed those in the less fertile soil that had escaped the hail! Heavily branched bushes, densely covered by flowers. The flower spikes were longer than many pole limas I've grown, flowered over a very long period, and attracted large numbers of bees & skipper butterflies. This was followed by a heavy pod set. The seeds are deep purplish black, and slightly wider & flatter than Sieva, although their seed weight was comparable (at around 60/ounce). As shellies, they had stronger flavor than Sieva, though not as strong as some (such as the Hopi limas). Nearly all ripened (even with the setback due to hail) and there was almost no shattering. From 35 plants, had several meals of butterbeans, and harvested 3.5 pounds of dry seed. * Sieva, Mottled - pole. Started as transplants by same methods, and with same results, as above. Vigorous, heavily-branched vines; I experimented with both 24" and 30" spacing, and 24" seemed to be optimal. Fusion had suggested that I grow 75 feet of white Sieva two years ago, which failed due to weather... but I tried the same length of row this year with Mottled Sieva. With all of the extra heat, and with frequent deep irrigation, the vines were healthy & produced a good crop. While the mottling on the dry seeds was similar, there appeared to be two races; one with black mottling, and one with light maroon or lavender. The seeds are a little smaller than the white-seeded Sieva, (at 69/oz. vs. 60/oz.), and the yield did not appear to be as heavy; but about 80-90% of the pods had ripened before the killing frost. We ate a few meals, gave a lot of shellies away, and harvested just under 22 pounds of dry seed. You have no idea how much seed that is, shelled entirely by hand; by my math, I would estimate around 10,000 pods. (:-o My hats off to DW, who was absolutely tireless in that endeavor... a legumaniac after my own heart. Runner Beans * Bianco de Spagna - white seeded. Failed. Severe stunting, mostly fatal; they never really recovered. The few plants that just barely hung on (I didn't have the heart to pull them out) didn't even flower until very late August / September. The pods harvested just before the killing freeze were usable as shellies, but there was nothing mature enough to save for seed. The curse continues, this seems to be the only runner I can't get seed from. * Gigandes - white seeded. These were slow to start, but were less affected by the the stunting, and were the first beans in that plot to begin climbing. Unfortunately, the vines were stripped by hail in early July. The plants responded by sending out new runners, and made a remarkably rapid recovery... but they were set back by at least several weeks. Dry seed only began ripening about 10 days before the killing freeze. Was able to harvest a lot of shellies, and 11 ounces of dry seed... which will be used for a larger seed increase next year, hopefully under better conditions. Over all, despite a few setbacks, it turned out to be a really good year for seed saving. Of 106 seed crops I planted for preservation, 94 were successful. 59 of those were legumes, including 80 pounds of various beans, and 40 pounds of soybeans. Much of my older stock has been replenished (such as BE#3 & Soissons Vert), and I found a few new varieties that proved to be keepers. I will continue with the results for peas & miscellaneous legumes later in this thread; my final observations for cowpeas & soybeans will follow on other threads.