maximizing mother rhizomes

18 years ago

Another thread touched on the subject.

For various reasons I dug up a couple of mothers this year away from clumps without disturbing the remainer of the rhizomes. What should I do with these?

No rot was on most of them.

I heard people comment here that they have gotten blooms, eventually, from very small bits of old rhizomes. That is they get them to grow babies which will produce blooms.

Is this true? I cut up some of them like potato slices yesterday and planted them along the side of the house. Will just a slice of rhizome do anything? Or did I just kill them?

If it is possible to get old mothers to produce more young after their initial batch than is there any reason why I should not clip these old mommies out of old clumps and re-replant them somewhere else?

It does not seem likely they have room to do so in the old clump. Once they have an open wounds where their offspring was, will they, maybe give birth again if seperated?

Will mother rhizomes produce new youngsters the third year in their life in the old clump if left alone?

I just want to get the most out of these old gals before they turn to mush.

How have you all's experiments gone in maximizing mother rhizomes?

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Comments (6)

laurief_gw
18 years ago
There is no hard and fast rule because different rzs and different cultivars respond differently. Some bloomed rzs won't produce increases at all. Most will produce some increases. Some will continue to produce additional increases after being separated from the first round of increases. But there are no guarantees one way or the other.

My guess is that the slices you replanted yesterday probably won't survive. Theoretically if the mother rz is still viable, and if you cut her into chunks that contain growing points and enough mass to support both the original chunk and the development of new increases, and IF the cut surfaces don't rot, the replanted chunks *might* grow increases. However, cut surfaces are especially susceptible to invasion by erwinia bacteria that is endemic in most soils and will cause your slices to rot. That's why it is recommended that newly divided irises be allowed to dry and their cut wounds to scab over for several days before replanting.

It'll be interesting to read the results of your experiment. You just never know what an iris will do.

Laurie
njiris
18 years ago
'Potato Slices'? How thick? A slice to me is something no more than half an inch thick...if so, they won't grow.
However, a 'slice' may mean something different to you.
I would think that anything less than about 1.5 inches is a waste of time.
If you want to experiment with old mothers, try to keep them intact, or cut in half, dry out the cut end for a day or two then replant.
I have heard people say that either 'nicking' a mother might stimulate it to grow, or watering it with 'willow water' (water where willow cuttings have been stuck for a few days) may help stimulate new growth.
Laetitia
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Rhizome is root mass below the surface. What you did was to cut a shoot that was just starting and will now die. In order to get a viable start of a clumping bamboo, you will have to get a decent size chunk of rhizome and, preferably, at least one fully developed culm. Unfortunately, clumpers have dense, woody rhizome systems. The last time I divided one, it took 1/2 hour with me pounding on the foot rest of a sharp, steel spade with a sledge to force it through the roots like a chisel. Some clumpers are less difficult...but you get the idea. You're not just going to be able to take a small piece and call it good. Unless you can get viable root mass, you're not going to get anywhere.
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see I never thought that they would do anything either, so i tossed them into an empty section figuring that they would do whatever it is that they'll do and i think only one didn't make new increases. i thinkthat you should put them aside somewhere and see if they do anything, but keep in mind that i didn't see any new leaves on mine until spring. also, if yours were really overgrown and are still solid, they probably will make babies as they'll be happy about the extra space, i would think... Keep them, the worst that's gonna happen is that you'll have more irises to make you happy!
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As I have a KBG lawn, I researched this pretty extensively, but not in the last 6-7 years. Things may have changed in that time. At the time, I found very few remotely relevant studies available. What I did find were a variety of "statements" contained in university turf "fact sheets" (but they did not site studies supporting the statements) or anecdotal statements in studies aimed at other issues. It left me with as many questions as answers. To paraphrase these "statements," followed with my comments in parentheses: An established KBG plant "mother" will send out a rhizome that becomes part of the root mass or from which another plant "daughter" will/can grow. (My experience is that this does not occur until the second year after initial seed establishment.) The daughter plant receives nutrients from the mother plant through the rhizome connection. (Is this a one-way or two-way connection?) Verticuting and aeration can promote spreading by severing the rhizome connecting the mother and daughter allowing the daughter to establish its own daughter plants. (Does this mean that unless the mother/daughter rhizome connection is terminated, the daughter will not produce its own daughters? As anyone who has KBG will tell you, it continues to spread over time, so is there a natural process for terminating the rhizome connection? When does that occur? How many daughters can a mother plant have? How far away from the mother plant can a daughter plant be created?) FWIW: I have an area where the grade near my house is flat, then transitions to a slope and then quickly into a steep incline/hill. I was able to establish the flat area with my initial seeding 10 years ago, but it took re-seeding and/or overseeding each year to re-establish turf on the slope and the hillside. About 5-6 years ago, the slope was able to retain a decent cover, but the hillside still dies off every summer and requires re-seeding.. Every June, I have a great thick lawn there due to the reseeding. Then the hillside dies off during the summer. The point: I have observed that the turf from the flat area, and now the slope, has been making progress at about 6-10+" each year in working its way up the hill. My conclusion is that the mother/daughter relationship must be enabling the mother to support the daughter until the daughter can establish a root mass sufficient enough for the daughter to survive the summer die off that the yearly new reseeded grass cannot. Then "rinse and repeat." Sorry that I can't be more help in answering your questions. If you come across anything, please post. EDIT: I went through my "library" of links under that category and this was the only one still active. Buckeyeturf (Ohio State U.) had a couple, but they are now 404 and although they were a great resource, a visit shows they are now pretty near worthless:(. See section on aeration
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wmoores
18 years ago
There have been discussions of propogating irises this way to get increase faster so the iris can be put on the market sooner. I have never done it.

This subject can be found discussed in the Mallorn Archives.
I don't remember what year(s). You can Google Mallorn Computing and find it.

Walter Moores
mccommas
Original Author
18 years ago
I sliced up the poor dears with just about a half inch. Guess I killed them!

This morning I checked some of my old mothers and a clearly 3 year old one has a tiny baby coming out.

And there is hardly any room but there it is. Several more as well.

I bought some mothers on ebay and while they did multiply they have not bloomed. I think they will this year though -- finally!

thanks guys. Esp you laurief.

I guess the ladies like the mystery of why it is they do what they do....or don't do....
linnea56 (zone 5b Chicago)
18 years ago
I'm curious about the willow water. I have a willow tree (corkscrew willow) that always needs suckers cut off. What kinds of things can you use this on? What situations?
njiris
18 years ago
linnea:
I just know that willow has some kind of growth hormone, and if one wants to take a cutting of a woody plant (tree or bush), if they stick it in water with some freshly cut willow it will encourage root growth on the other plant. I have heard of someone using willow water to soak an old mother and new increase appeared. However, I tried it once on a very beat up old mother and it did not work.
Mccommas: Please let us know if the potato slices work for you. I don't think they will, but would be interested in hearing what happens..
Laetitia

maximizing mother rhizomes

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maximizing mother rhizomes

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