Blazeaglory, the point was to have a closed bin that would avoid fruit flies without paying $500 dollars. Also it is round which is better then square and not completely closed as it drains to into the ground. That is a good plus. The other point was to not be so dependent on the whim of Starbucks having coffee ground for me. I can't get heat at all without the coffee grounds. Lately I have had a bad run of trying get the grounds. But, now I don't really have to get them as this bin is making heat without coffee grounds. I don't have waste time driving over to Starbucks when I don't have any reason to go to Starbucks. Gas is very expensive. Heat is very positive as it speeds up the compost and makes better compost. Cold composting takes a long time. If you cold compost you need more bins because you have to store that stuff for six months instead of using it right away and clearing out the bin space and moving on and making more compost. The more compost you make at a faster rate the better the improvement to the soil. I can now dump food scraps in there and forgot about them without having to bury the food and check the pile to make sure it's hot. Compost is very time consuming if you get into it seriously. Composting is an addiction as one always tries to improve. I do add the bagged browns Kelloggs Amend also when I add the food. If the food just sits in void, it become a sort of slime and fails to turn into good compost. I could put in the food scraps greens and throw in a hand full of browns Amend to balance them. So far it works yesterday, I have to take the temp today as it will be sunny to see how hot I can get it.

Yes tubes have been used in Geothermal energy systems from the beginning. So yes that's definitely a tried and tested component, That's where I got the idea myself from. But the choice of tubing, size, length, temperature difference, volume of water being cooled, as well as placement are the deciding factors in the overall efficiency of the geothermal system. That doesn't even take into account the cost of the materials, and or the best way to get the most efficiency. For the cost of those 4 stainless steel tubes alone, I could get about 700 feet of 1/2 poly tubing. The same stuff used in commercial geothermal energy applications, and again both the fact it's a tube, and made of plastic poly tubing are both tried and tested components as well. "when people try to be too innovative and overestimate their competences, deductive powers and skills, - they often tend to bungle and end up with something odd and non-remunerative" Well true to form it didn't take long before the insults, and superiority complex comes out. You clearly were trying to take credit for inventing the geothermal well design, your exact words were "something of my own concept, design." You didn't come up with either the concept or design, just wanted to take credit for it like everything else. But your "LACK" of skills leaves a lot to be desired in overall efficiency you could have achieved in the same 10 foot hole/space (especially if that was your focus). Even playing off tried and true concepts (not your concept/design). ""I haven't exactly intended to be part of any avant-garde movement with this project and do not exactly recommend it to others either" Fact is, your statement something of my own concept, design suggests quite the opposite, or at the very least trying to take credit for a concept someone else came with. I haven't tried to be a part of any "avant-garde movement" (another one of your stupid sarcastic insults), or trying to reinvent the wheel with my trench design concept. Fact is the type of tubing, the depth of the tubing, the placement of the tubing in lengthwise coils, as well as in a trench are all "TRIED AND TESTED CONCEPTS AND COMPONENTS" TAKEN FROM COMMERCIAL APPLICATIONS. Nothing "avant-garde" about it what so ever. As for the size tubing, it's a well known fact that smaller volumes of water heat an cool faster than larger volumes of water do. The only thing that's not exactly taken straight from tried and true geothermal systems is the exact length of tubing needed top cool the water. That's simply because I haven't found any "tried and tested charts" to go by, probably because there are so many variables that affect the system in general for such a chart to be reasonably accurate. I wasn't trying to trivialize anything. In fact I was actually trying to give you credit, or I wouldn't have even mentioned it in the first place. I'm just simply not as impressed with the thought, as you are with yourself. Fact is water does seek it's own level. We did experiments in school in the 8'th grade proving so, and I have been proving it ever scene. Weather it's going to be an issue, depends on many factors such as water level in the reservoir (both flood and drain cycles), type of pump (submersible or not), placement of the reservoir (in ground, or above ground etc. and ultimately water level), water level in a secondary smaller holding tank/reservoir at the exit end with the pump needed for submersible pumps (or considering the cost of a different pump), type of hydro system and it's location from the cooling system etc. etc.. Just because you think it's the answer to everything, doesn't make it so. Weighing the pros and cons of placing the pump on the exit end would need to be considered first. I'm simply just not impressed with any of it like you are.

@ PupillaCharites & happy_fl_gardener - fascinating thread, thanks! I was taken by surprise at a Spring Garden show where TG had a booth - I fell for it! But I'm not disappointed as I'm having fun with it. I come to realize that I really have a keen interest in growing plants, ones I can eat especially, and now have a complete fascination with hydroponics as a growing system, so I came here to learn. Its time I start thinking about buying more Tonic and like others, I'm looking for an alternative b/c Yes, the TG tonic seems expensive and I get the feeling I can find an alternative. My goal is to build some of my own designed hydroponic units just for fun. But the immediate goal is to find a alternative feed before I head out of town for a few weeks and have to leave my husband with the TG which is currently loaded with veggies. There's a LOT to look up here - many recommendations so I'm going to check them out today and determine whether or not I have time to get my hands on these and do what I need to over the next few days. If I don't, I'll have to resort to going back to TG for the tonic but I'm pretty sure it will be the last time. NOT at all slamming the system or the company - it was expensive but I am having fun with it. I bought it for fun and not as a way to make money. I'm a boring banker and certainly don't need to get involved in MLM. Tx again everyone. I'm going to enter my link here. I am NOT actively selling the TG and I can't say I disagree with what some of @ PupillaCharites describes as their marketing program. I agree with you and so what I did was start a blog to track my experience with the TG as well as other crazy challenges I'm having living on a lot full of clay. As an FYI - I am almost out of the complete hydroponic beginner category at the moment. But what a blast I'm having with all the ideas I'm getting from all the hydroponic literature I've been reading. If I had a HUGE aquarium I could use fish poop as a fertilizer like they do at Epcot! Tx again all for the great conversations and debate. Here is a link that might be useful: The Wonky Gardener

Thanks everyone. Interesting info to ponder for sure. I'm not sure when this became the kitty-forum but just for the record our kitties have several fountains to drink fresh water from, they do get wet & dry food every day, we do grow oat and wheat grass just for them and based on our experience taking care of 40+ kitties at the farm, we're very careful how we treat them. With that said we also know they love the greenhouse so we'd never lock them out. They are supervised in the GH, but even that's not 100%. As far as how they would get into the solution or if they can have a problem from eating the leaves, let's just say I'm an absolute-type of personality Whether by overflow, spill or any other method. I absolutely don't want to risk something going wrong that would affect them. Hopefully now we can concentrate more on the solution and less on the kitties and how they may or may not access it. I think it's important to distinguish our goal here or at least clarify it. Anything can make anything or anyone sick....I realize this I'm not necessarily worried about an occasional exposure that may cause temporary-tummy-trouble. I AM however worried about the various chemical-based fertilizers that are known to cause immediate and permanent kidney damage in animals. With that in mind, and knowing that the definition of "chemical" can be very subjective, what I am doing is trying to identify a solution chemical OR organic (for lack of a better definition) that will be safe to use AND will provide what a tomatoe plant would need. I can tell you I've sprayed fish emulsion & kelp for multiple seasons in the greenhouse with mixed results on plants and NO adverse affects on the kitties. I've also used the Dr. Earth dry (vegetables & fruit) with good results so far...but again this is all experimental. The worm casting tea is a recent addition, so the jury is still out on that...AND I did hear back from Dr. Earth on their liquid and the answer was essentially that while anything can make an animal sick, their liquid fertilizer will not do anything beyond that...and yes I've reviewed the MSDS from their site. With all of this said I'd love to hear what chemical OR organic solution components you're using. Joe I'd really love to hear the refined checmical solution mix you're using. I'm not ruling anything out so I'd love to see and compare some solutions for vegetables that are in use out there. Anyone??