In her book 'The Japanese Garden: Gateway to the Human Spirit' Seiko Goto suggests that when Buddhism came to Japan it did not replace Shintoism but was adapted into it. She says "Even after the introduction of Buddhism, Japanese gardens always retained a strong attitude of nature worship, which had formed under the Shinto tradition."
She goes on to say that " Because gardens are composed of all the elements of nature, which is itself a manifestation of gods, the garden and religion have been inseperable in Japan."
From what she is saying there is not a strict separation between zen/shinto/dao/confucionism that we often look for but that there is an amalgamation, making the garden connected more to culture than any one religion but nonetheless spiritual.

Inky, you've hit the nail on the head there, I think. Might well be why we had so much trouble defining the spiritual side of Jgardening; hard to define the spiritual side of Japanese culture (at least with a specific epithet).

Nice question Don...

Hi Don ---

What a wonderful experience you must have had working with a sensei who was a Shinto priest! Will you share more about this? Such as, where, when, how did you end up there, etc.

Lee

Lee, I sent you an email with all my lies.

I agree, Inky. The Japanese are born Buddhist, get married Shinto, but have a Buddhist/Shinto funeral - just in case! It seems to be a nice combination and has made for a way of life many admire.

Hi Don --- Thanks for your e-mail!

On the topic of Shinto, in George Sansom's classic "Japan: A Short Cultural History," he points out that Shinto is marked by a respect for, rather than a fear of, the objects of worship (deities, or whatever). Sansom notes that this is in contrast to most other religions. He also marvels that this is true in spite of Japan having its share of natural disasters such as earthquakes, typhoons, volcanic eruptions, etc., which tend to make people fear their deities.

Lee

Hi all
Don
Have you ever questioned yourself that why Buddhsim and Shinto are and were co exstising in same place ?
(Shinto shrin in Temple's ground but not other way). Just imergin if Catholic church have golden Buddha statue sitting next to virgin Mary.

Korean temple of zen which I attend regulary has big painting of mountain god next to Buddha's statue.

In Japanese garden history, pureland buddhism had much bigger impact to design of Japanese garden than zen.
If you read main sutras of Pureland Buddhism , you will understand. Main Sutras which used by zen sects do not contain descreption of garden of Gokuraku/heaven. However
way of thinking of Zen is " all sutras are good as others" so Zen monk also study pureland Buddhism, so does Pureland monks. Chinese pureland temple I attend have many sutras of zen and they study zen also. As of sect, teaching of zen or pureland buddhism are differnt. But in theoly of Buddism, all Buddhism has zen in thire teaching.
Tendai sect. Shingon sect, Old 6 of sects (before Tendai, Shingon sects stared late 800's) all prcticed and studied
Zen. Zen is not one of sect or teaching of Buddhism. Zen is part of Buddhism from begining.

So called Zen monks din't start Japanese garden. Many Jodo sect monk built gardens but also Shingon sect, Tendai sect monks also some Old Nara 's 6 sects monks were also built/designed Garden. I think Seno rikyu's grand fatheror or father also was close to Jodo sect. Name of "Sen" indicate some how tell me Seno Rikyu ancester was Ji sectJapanese are born as Shinto( First official religious visit is shinto shrin Called "o miya maeri" ) married at church , Even they are not christian., many young ladys want to were wedding dress. They like to hear wedding bell ringing and wear fancy wedding dress ) when we die, 99% of Japanese go to Temple for funeral.

You know why ? Because Tokukawa Yieyasu told so. He told 400 years ago and we are still doing what he told. Most Japanese even don't think why. I am not kidding. ^^
In order to make it sure to eliminate all christians in Japan, every one of them had to have funeral at temple.( Beside, offialy most Japanese are member/suporter of some temple Called "Danka" )

History is very intresting thing.

If temple of pureland build a garden, Can you call it zen garden? for exsample Ginkaku ji or Saiho ji. I hope, I am not giving you hard time ^^ .
mike y

OK, Mike. Lets try this. Here is the email I sent you before Thanksgiving:

Mike-san! Do desu-ka?
I am getting ready to have a large belly like Buddha. I will be happy like Buddha because I will have so much good food tomorrow. They are already cooking for 2 days, so I cannot think deep thoughts as you ask.
I am delighted that you think me intelligent enough to discuss this subject, but I am not an expert on any Buddhism or Shinto religion. The man who invited me to Japan was a Shinto priest. He had a Buddhist shrine in his home. The man who taught me in Kyoto also had a beautiful shrine in his home, but participated in Shinto ceremonies associated with the construction of new buildings and gardens. I don't know how much Shinto influence there was in his garden construction because we never discussed it! They do have Shinto weddings (because they are more fun!) and they do have Buddhist funerals. Sometimes they have both kinds of funerals. I did ask about this and was told they were just covering all their bets! Maybe it was a joke and I didn't understand. I do know they take both seriously.
However, one day we happened to walked through a Hindu shrine while looking for another place and everyone sped up. I wanted to look around, but they said we needed to go. Interesting?
Japanese culture is a dichotomy and this is only one part of that. Shintoism came easy to ancient Japanese. It was easy to understand and easy to relate to. Buddhism brought many provocative ideas, but was more restrictive and harder to grasp. Those that did, embraced it and made it their own. Both survived, although I think Buddhism had the most evolution to fit cultural evolution. Am I mistaken, Mike-sensei? Well, why not have both since neither excludes the other? Why not honor Shinto custom while pursuing Buddhist aspirations?
About garden design being Zen or Pure land or Chop Suey. I think they have had influence from many sources. The Italians have a recipe for spaghetti; the Mexicans have a recipe for spaghetti; and so on. My recipe is a combination. Maybe it is no longer spaghetti. Maybe it is better.
I believe Zen students used sand and stone to practice pursuit of meditation and understanding the relation of everything. I believe perhaps a student or teacher used these to help grasp the pure land concept.
Far fetched perhaps, but consider the appearance of moss in the perfectly raked Zen courtyard: "Boy, look here! While we were on pilgrimage on the mountain, moss has grown around your stones. What do you see in this? Is it good?"
I think there was and is influence from Zen, Buddhist, Chinese, Korean, accidental, individual, rich and powerful, rulers, and on and on. I believe there exist different levels of this influence in garden ruins and in the foundation of existing gardens. It is happing today. Do you think Moss Temple was always covered with moss? Japanese gardens are still changing. They are still being influenced.
Happy Thanksgiving, Mike-san! I have been asked to chop celery...

Hi all
Don
Thank you for posting and replying to my post.
The question or curiousty you have is same as many Japanese have. To answer your curiosty, I have to explain history of Japan, history of Buddhism and Buddism it's self and many other topics to conclude " Shinto in Japanese garden" It may take some time to explain all of it. If you bored, throw towel then I quit ^^.

Shinto was trival relegion originaly. Today's books are calling Japanese native relegion. Many Christian can't think of two different relegion co exsist in same sanctuary. Many Buddhist countries co exsist with native relegion. Not only each country but also Buddhism it's self co exsist with other relegions. many Hindo god, godess become god/ godess in Buddhism. So Buddhism it's self have and allow to have and adapt other relegion. As word of Buddha He told one of his new deciple who converted from other relegion. " Respect your old teacher and it's teach " Because of his word and teach Buddhism is pecefull with other relegions.

Next time you go to kyoto or Nara , visit to old temples. Old temples which many nobles and Emperor had relation with the temples.
Those old temple has Shinto shrine and torii on the Temple's compound. but not single temple on Shinto shrine's ground.

I am a student. most time, sensei mean teacher. but you break down kanji of sensei, "born earlier" I am not for sure that I was born befor your birth or not ^^ . I push up 600 a day to keep my youthness and I don't want to admit my age........ Well it is sign of getting old. young peoples even don't think of it ^^.

I have limied time to access to computer. I will try to answer your question above sl~~ow~~l~~Y.

I can't wait for kosher food. I am having plenty of Thai food now when I vivit to my Temples. I can have chinese foods at the temple without meat and fish and korean foods as well. I visit more to Korean Temple than Chinese pureland dojo. I have to go !
Anjali.............. mike

Hi Don
Forgive me. I have not chenge my email address on "my page"
This is my e mail japanesegardener1@yahoo.com . This is temporary untile move to Mas. I am staying with my friend who has 3 kids 6,9,11 and all want to use computer play game or doing home work. I have very limited time to access to PC.

Ask to your senseifor " shinbutsu shugo " or "honji suijaku setsu" this will explain why Shinto and Buddhsim exsiting togather on same ground.
I do have many Buddhism relateing books but have only one Shinto book " Nihon jinjya ko " published shortl after world war two. Contents of book never allowed befor the war. I collects old books mid meiji to early to mid Showa Piriod and that is one of my collection. Many things about Shinto information come from Buddhism related books, Japanese hisoty text book and nihon jinjya ko. So I don't know much about Shinto . ( After I kicked out Christian school, I went to boys school which is natioalist and founder of the school was beleibing that Emperor should be head of Japan. We marched from school to Yasukuni shrine whil all Japanese hight school was holiday off but we had to attend school" It was Emperor's birthday. ( It was national holiday ) I skiped school. I din't want to mach to Yasukuni shrine. I thought Emperor has resposibilty of 6 million Japanese's death and Enemy countries people's life.

Cofunfucianism officialy came to Japan about 250 yaers befoe Buddhism came to Japan. But din'd have much impact to peoples of Japan until much later years. Not big impact like Buddhism did . Yin/yang, divination lore/Eki( My dictionary may not right). shamanism are mixed in/ like melting pot. USA is not have melting pot.^^

Untill Buddhism become popular among nobles and got suport from Emperor, people needed to lean how to write Chinese chracters. All past record of loyal were mouth to mouth untill buddhism came. Japan din't have writing system.( letters)

Italian learned fron Chinese how to make spagety. We owe to Chisnese peoples that they thaught us many things. We should tell Mr Gate not so up set when Chinese copying Microsoft's soft wear. fire work, gun powder. we are not paying loyalty, one penny to Chinese.............. Hehehehe...mike