Hey, and welcome.

" but I'm having a hard time settling on a system because they all seem to major downsides"

A big reason I use soilless drain to waste. I find it to be the easiest hydroponics ever. I grow full sized pepper plants in 2 gal pots. I would use larger containers for tomatoes though. I use everything from Peat based to bark.

Here is what I am going to give a run this year. It is 1/2"-1" Pine Bark. Tapla in the container forum has inspired me to use this. He has perfected a mix called the 5-1-1 and the gritty, you should check it out.

But this is just plain 1/2"-1" bark.

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It is tested :)

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Interesting! Thanks for the reply.

It seems like pine bark would have a very low pH, but then again, so does the peat moss that many potting mixes are based on. I will check out Tapla's posts, thanks.

It does have a ph of 4.5-5.0 range. Yea those other mixes are better. The 5-1-1 you add lime to to get the ph right. But I find plants still grow very fast in the 1/2"-1" pine bark. Maybe the water balaces it out and keeps the ph right. I thought of that mix when I looked at Orchid potting mixes.

I grew tomatoes and pepers in a 4" pvc NFT system and I had nothing but trouble as the tomatoe roots just got too big for the system. A 6" pipe might have worked better, I don't know. I think I will either do tomatoes in the 55 gal half barrels or probably a 5 gal bucket so I can twine the vine around the bucket as I lower them. The heat wasn't really a problem till it got above 95* and then I chilled the cooler with frozen 2 ltr bottles.

Yes, that's what I suspected. My local Lowes has the corrugated pipe in 6", I'm tempted to try it. I don't know. It would be a cheap enough experiment! :)

I've tried growing tomatoes in containers with potting mix several times, and they do well right up until the point that they get root bound. I can't see why it would be any different in hydro. It seems like they'd fill up a 6" pipe or 5 gallon bucket with roots in a hurry.

Does anyone have any thoughts on media-less bucket system? I'm thinking a 3" netpot with grow rocks and constant drip in a five gallon bucket... would that work? ...or does the bucket need to be full of media to support the roots?

Thanks

no the bucket doesn't need to be full of media. I typically use 2" pots for tomatoes I grow in 5 gallon buckets.
I'm not sure a drip system in that setup is the best option. How are you going to ensure all the roots stay damp? with a tub full of medium, capillary action will keep everything damp from a drip system but w/o media, you're relying on the nutrient actually hitting the roots. I think you're better off with a DWC system in that instance.
A full grown tomato plant won't fill a 5 gallon bucket to the point of being rootbound. (that's a lot harder to do in hydro) but you'll only be able to put 2 or 3 gallons in the bucket which the plant will consume pretty quickly. It's been a few years now, but I believe a fruiting full grown tomato drinks 1/2 gallon of water a day in my area. (central NC)

Ya know, there is no better way to learn then to just jump in. Do some research and go! You could even do a couple of different systems to see which works better for you. Plants are really pretty forgiving if they get what they need, dosen't really matter how they get it as long as they do. Don't be so afraid to make mistakes cuz that is how we learn :)

@grizzman: Your 5 gallon bucket system was DWC? I live in Virginia Beach and I think I'd have cooked roots in a DWC system. I was under the impression that the roots needed to stay wet, too, but in NFT only the bottom fraction of an inch stays wet, right? Why couldn't the same concept happen in a media-less, multi-bucket system where the water drips in from the top and pools an inch or two deep at the bottom before exiting through an overflow...? Not all of the roots would stay wet, but they don't in NFT either, right? Maybe I'm missing something...

@fintuckyfarms: I'm all about experimenting, but I also believe in learning through others and not re-inventing the wheel... I'm not scared of mistakes, but I'd like to be in the right ballpark when I make them. :)

Thanks to both of you for your input!

I did tomatoes, pepers and watermelon last summer in 5 gallon buckets using 8" net pots filled with either hydroton or river stone (DWC). The water temperature was probably too high during the heat of the day but the plants did fine. During the peak of the fruting one tomato plant would drain the bucket during the course of the day. Yes, that means I was refilling every day. At that point, the roots had probably reduced the amount of water space to 3 gallons. The root balls were huge.

I think I'm going to switch to a drip system this year because of the high maintenance of the DWC buckets. Mixing 3 part nutes one at a time, one bucket at a time was a real pain.

I've also done (indoors) tomatoes in 4" pvc pipe. It worked but it was no fun extricating the roots at the end of the season. 6" would be better.

I've also considered doing a multi-bucket flood and drain system like the ones you see advertised. That is still a lot of media, but I will probably use river stone. The river stone (which you can get from a big box store) helps to stabilize the plants. They seem to have no problem growing in it.

Michealnelson;
I think the trick is to not give them too much direct sunlight and/or make the bucket reflective and/or insulated. Tomatoes only need maybe 5 hours of direct sunlight. Sure more may be better, but they'll fruit just fine with only 5. (remember they'll still get plenty of indirect light) If you place them so they get more than that, you will start seeing your nutrient getting a lot warmer.
You're probably right about the drip NFT analogy. When I used NFT, the roots laying on the bottom would create smallish dams that increased the water level. It's also why I'd have to keep increasing the slope of the troughs. Also, that one or two inches at the bottom of your buckets would quickly become oxygen depleted.Maybe the roots would consume everything down there. I don't know. My first system used a modified DWC / NFT system. I ran into problems because the fluid coming into the sytem would flow across the top of the trough (it was about two inches deep) and didn't actually interact with the lower water. It's an issue of planar flow. so you have to watch out for that. If you try that route, make sure you have an off cycle at least in the early stages of growth or else its possible the continuous flow of water over the roots will actually suffocate the smaller roots. Won't necessarily kill the plant but will slow its growth as it has to put out new roots.
@Vorkus;
if your plants are burning through that much nutrient, lower the concentration of the nutrient. the plant usually does that to help cool itself off.
instead of mixing individual batches of nutrient, mix a large batch as just feed it to the individual plants. Or mix concentrates of the three parts. set it so you maybe add 1 cup of each to 3 gallons of water. makes it a lot quicker to mix that way.

"think the trick is to not give them too much direct sunlight and/or make the bucket reflective and/or insulated. Tomatoes only need maybe 5 hours of direct sunlight. Sure more may be better, but they'll fruit just fine with only 5."

No 5 yours grows them not good, I know because thats what my garden gets, wish I had more light. Tomatoes like 8 hours a day, they 6+ on plant starts to sell more lol.

I am not understanding this? Avoid the sun???? Get a chiller? Or use drain to waste like me??????

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

@vorkus: Interesting! You're zone 6 so you may not have the highs we do here in zone 7b, but that still probably exceeds the 72 degree reservoir temp that DWC supposedly breaks down at. Plumbing together your buckets and possibly adding a common reservoir would probably make the refills easier for you... but if you do all that, you might as well go all the way to flood/drain. :)

@grizzman: It seems to me that the constant trickle from the top would keep oxygen in the holding water elevated, but maybe the plant would take it up faster. I think it's worth the experiment, I might to try that.

@MasterGardener1: "I am not understanding this? Avoid the sun???? Get a chiller? Or use drain to waste like me??????"... I don't think those are going to be our only options. :) I probably will have a couple drain to waste pots, but it seems to me that that misses a lot of the advantages to hydro because 1) you still basically have to hand water because your pots dry out at different rates and 2) with a media that stays wet, you don't get the high oxygen concentration to the roots that you would with a rapid wet/dry cycle. I think some sort of flood/drain system would be the best of both worlds, especially if you can get rid of the media.

Thanks again

"with a media that stays wet, you don't get the high oxygen concentration to the roots that you would with a rapid wet/dry cycle"

Very well said.

I use an ebb&flow/recirculating DWC system for peppers and tomatoes. It uses 30 gallon cement mixing trays (about $12), 5 or 8inch net pots with hydroton, which sit in a lid over the tray, and a 900gph pump. One bag of hydroton is more than enough, you can even use lava rock.

The reservoir is a large garbage can buried about 12 feet away in the shade to help with temps. Sometimes I run the pump on a timer, or sometimes I just let the thing run. The return line creates a large waterfall that adds lots of oxygen to the water.

I have a bad habit of overcrowding systems. I wouldn't put anymore than six tomato plants in one tray, depending on variety.

michealnelson wrote:
"with a media that stays wet, you don't get the high oxygen concentration to the roots that you would with a rapid wet/dry cycle"
That is not exactly accurate. with a medium that stays saturated you you don't have the high oxygen . . .
a wet media can very easily have an abundance of available oxygen in the crevices between the pieces. but I do agree, just wanted to clarify saturated vs wet.

@TheMasterGardener1 and grizzman: I think "stays" is probably the operative word in that statement... the degree of how wet is secondary to how fast it dries out (i.e. o2 levels). We all get the point, though. :)

@artwk: Burying the res is something I'm considering and makes sense from many angles (height, temperature, etc) but what a PITA. :) So you only have media in the pots, not in the bottom of the trays? How many trays are you running off of the res? I'd love to know more about your system, do you have any links to any threads you may have written about it?

Thanks again to everyone!

Lol I knew what michaelnelson was saying :)

I am so glad I got into hydroponics. If I had a lot of pots I would use a self watering system but if I water in the morning and night they are fine.

Hope you have a good season.

Yes, there is only media in the pots. The roots grow into a big mat that fills the tray. The trays are 24"x36"x8". I meant to do two trays last year, but my 40 gallon reservoir only let me fill one comfortably. Obviously, the bigger the res, the more trays you can do.

Heres a pic of what is going on.

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I buried my reservoir, probably not necessary. This year I'm putting in a larger res for more trays, I have about 30 heirloom pepper plants looking for a home.

Very nice! You said the tub was $12, where did you find it? I saw one at Lowes, but I don't think it was that big. If you added a second pump (or some kind of diverter) you could stagger the flood cycle so the single small res could drive two tubs. Nice work, thanks for the testimonial and pic!

I got everything to build the system at Menards. They had 3 sizes there when I went, the 2x3 was the mid-size.

They where in the back by the cement, but way up on the wall.

I had to buy a chiller for mine. Now the water stays at a crisp 68 degrees all day long. Best investment, as high temps breed nasty stuff in your rez and your plants won't like it.

I just set up a hydro drip system yesterday.

I'm using some 6 inch pots and pea gravel and fully subscribe to fintuckyfarms way of thinking. No need in wondering too much about whether it's going to work, just do it.

I grow tomatos outdoor using the EBB&Grow 12 plant system from CAPP.

Pretty much a 55 gallon drum and a controller bucket, which flood the buckets at pre-determined itnervals throughout the day (usually 2 or 3 waterings per day).

I have had great success with this outdoors, no problems yet in fact. I ma starting on week 5 now and My tomatos and cucumbers are doing great.

Ask me if you have any questions. I love ebb&flow style hydro and it's perfect for outdoors. I did have to buy a chiller to keep the water cool enough though because I am in Northern CA and it gets kinda hot here during the summer.

Here are some pics:

My nearly 5 foot cucumber plant on week 4:
http://i.imgur.com/pDjz6.jpg

Here's some more pics from my outdoor tomato, cucumber, bellpeper, and eggplant grow. All done with Ebb&Flow system in 5 gal buckets. This is at the beginning of week 5. The cherry tomato one was about 5 feet tall but got damaged when i tried to cage it :/

http://imgur.com/a/N2ybd

Very nice, thanks for the pics and testimonial. I love the idea of the bucket e&f.