There are two good sources for tomato seeds of all kinds that I like to use. I don't grow many of the big beefsteaks, goliath, or others that are for fresh eating. Instead, for fresh eating I like a small grape tomato. I found a few very good types of grape tomatoes grown on plants that bare heavily. For canning, sauce types, like plum, paste, and others including an Oxheart and San Marzano. These types have more meaty pulp and less seeds and liquid inside. Instead of cooking out a lot of water when I want to make a sauce, I much prefer to remove most of the watery liquid from the tomatoes prior to straining. Of course the Villaware/Roma/Weston food strainer is a great tool to give you nice sauce without the bother of deseeding or removing skins. The two companies that I do a lot of business with are Totally Tomatoes and Tomato Growers. All the rest (Burpee, etc.) tend to offer only a few types of popular tomatoes as they offer all kinds of other popular seeds, so their variety is bigger. The two companies mentioned also have many pepper types, as well as a few unusual tomatillos. For beans, like growing yellow wax bush beans. The plants bear all summer and you end up with quite a lot from just a dozen plants. For cukes, I grow pickling types, and pick nearly every day once they start to produce. My lettuce last summer was very prolific. I planted 3 seperate times, and had lettuce all the way to the middle of September. I usually plant many types, butter, bib, purple, and most of the expensive 'gourmet' types you see in expensive bags in the supermarket. Last summer, the tomatoes were the slowest coming in, but by mid August, I had quite a lot. Used to grow over 200 tomato plants started from seeds, as well as over 150 pepper plants. Now, due to my health, I have to cut down on some of these, and concentrate my efforts on fruit trees which don't need as much care and prepping. When making sauce or salsa, its always good to have several tomato varieties so that you get a good blend of flavors. With the Villware strainer and optional salsa screen, you get a minced tomato with no seeds or skins. Many times, it gets so late that I just shut off the heat on the stove, cover the pot, and do the canning the next day instead.

I also like growing my own garlic (Music or Musik) which is hard neck and great for my Z6. Also, dill, rosemary, basil, and my thyme has expanded since starting from seeds two years ago. I also have wild onions, garlic chives and a nice sized asparagus patch, not to mention about 25 blueberry bushes and red raspberries (thornless). The rest of my garden are fruit trees, apple, asian pear, quince, cherry, peach/plum/apricot, and soon a Pluot with 4 grafts for four types. I'm hoping the mild thaw we have now will last a few more days so that when the Pluot arrives it can be planted right away.

Hi jude - you'll find many discussions on the question of which variety is best for sauce, canning, etc. over on the Growing Tomatoes forum if you want to browse through them. And a search will even pull up a couple from this forum's past. I linked 1 long one below.

Personally I don't find any 1 variety best but prefer a mix of tomatoes for the best tasting sauce, salsas and, general canning. Most who have posted over on that forum seem to agree. You don't have to use only paste tomatoes of course - any tomato will work even beefsteaks and cherry varieties - it may just need a bit more cooking down. And if you first squeeze out the seeds and water you don't even have to cook all that much extra.

Consider some of the more flavorful varieties than the ones you have been using. ;) While Rutgers is often recommended and is a great "main" tomato, Early Girl and Goliath are not noted for their taste.

Dave

PS: please also keep in mind that there are much better sources for tomato seeds out there than the 2 you mention. Check out totallytomatoes.com, tomatogrowers.com. amd tomatofest.com for a start.

Here is a link that might be useful: What kind of tomatoes to grow? discussion

jude,

As you'll see, everyone has their faves, and many of us are happy to use whatever is ripe and mix 'em up.

Rutgers is one of a handful of staple all-around tomato (sauce, fresh use, canning, etc.) that have been around for decades and with which it's hard to go wrong. It's productive and tasty.

With limited space and wanting to put up a lot, you will probably want to stick to varieties that are fairly productive, rather than give up room to any that are stingy and late, however delicious.

I find Early Girl pretty bland; if you're looking for a productive early tomato with better taste, for myself I like Stupice, Kotlas, Matina, and Kimberly.

If you're mostly making sauce and salsa, you may want to grow some sauce/paste types, which are meatier and produce thicker sauces with less cooking down. There are fewer paste types with great flavour, it seems; I like Amish Paste and also Opalka, which is a funny-looking tomato shaped more like a long pepper. I've also had good luck with a hybrid called Mamma Mia.

If your gardening husband starts his own seeds, you will find that not only the sources recommended above have a vast range, but that many gardeners will be happy to give him a few of a favourite variety.

If he buys plants rather than starts seeds, he may find it difficult to find specific varieties that people here or on the tomato forum recommend; his choices will depend on what the suppliers in your area choose to start. So rather than ask him to look for particular varieties you might do better to tell him what qualities you are looking for (e.g., that you'd like to focus on flavour and productivity, and that you'd like to increase the number of meaty types in the mix, or whatever you decide), and let him chat with the garden-store owners or peruse his garden books to make a selection that'll work for you!

Good luck,

Zabby

Thanks a lot, you all. Plenty to think about for sure. I mentioned Cook's Garden and Burpee's catalog only because they were the ones I had gotten in the mail and prompted the discussion between me and DH. I don't know that we have ever ordered from either. I may have ordered gourmet lettuce seeds at one time. You know, anymore, you get catalogs regardless of whether you've ordered. Makes me crazy.
jude

Last year, I concentrated on planting quite a few golf-ball sized cherry types. My reasoning was because I wanted to concentrate on dehydrating lots of dried tomatoes.

I'm still trying to decide on the best types in my cool-summer climate, where tomatoes are slow to ripen, and also because of the problems of adding bottle lemon juice to my canned tomatoes, hence, any tomatoes that I happen to produce, usually are stewed a bit and frozen in convenient size containers, or eaten fresh - those I call "slicers" for salads and sandwiches - the larger beefsteak varieties.

I've found the dried tomatoes to be very versatile - using them for salad dressing, in pastas, in making blender-type salsas, and as paste for pizzas, and spagetti. I recently used them in making a do-now enchilada sauce, and they were great.

I will plant more of these - cherry types of golf ball size - (God willing) as they have been the type of tomato that our family can best utilize in the type of cooking that we do.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Since about Thanksgiving I have at least 15 seed catalogs. As mentioned, buying plants from local sources will limit your choices quite a bit. I was amazed at the meatyness of the Oxheart, but its taste is mild. I also tried growing a stuffing tomato, that looked more like bell peppers. The inside cavities were big and hollow with few seeds near the center. They grew poorly and once ripened just to a barely red color they would get spots on the outsides and spoil within a day or two. That variety must have had some problems, as I don't see them selling seeds for them much anymore. The main reason I chose a grape tomato was because cherry tomatoes tend to crack and easily fall off the plants. Daily, I would get more fallen cherry tomatoes than ones that I could pick off loaded branches. Grape tomatoes seem to ripen more evenly, don't crack, and you can pick a whole cluster at once. The grape type I grew, unfortunately, don't know its actual name/type, as it was grown in a mix of big of bigger type tomatoes quite by accident. I did save some of their seeds for this past summer, but lost about half of them to rot and not being there to pick them.

I'll add another vote for any of the oxhearts - thanks for the reminder about them Ken. Great for any canning but also good for fresh eating. It will be hard to find transplants for them tho. Next year raid one of the local farmer's markets for any open-pollinated types that look good and just save the seeds from them for the following year.

Dave

Well, I am rather opinionated on the matter of both sauce and salsa. There are slightly different requirements for each one and personal taste becomes a significant factor. Here would be my varieties.

Lyuda's Mom's Red Ukraine - This one is determinate, heavily productive, and makes thick walled nearly round red tomatos in the 2 to 3 inch diameter range. Flavor is very good and salsa potential is high. It can be sliced, canned, juiced, and eaten out of hand in the garden.

97L97 - This is a high carotene variety that nobody knows much about. Fruit are bright orange when ripe. I like to mix about 20% by volume of these with the other tomatoes because they really boost the vitamin A and they add a tart tangy flavor to the resulting salsa.

Druzba - This is a general purpose highly productive indeterminate variety with very intense tomato flavor. I use these in both sauce and salsa because the flavor when cooked is so intense.

Anna Russian - Is one of the few oxheart varieties I would use for salsa. It makes a good crop and the fruit are exceptionally good flavored.

Heidi - This one is a paste determinate. I grow them because they are very heat tolerant and highly productive. They make a very good salsa tomato and thicken up sauce because they have a relatively high dry matter to juice ratio.

Other tomatoes that I would grow for sauce and salsa are Rutgers, Lynnwood, Tropic, and Big Beef (hybrid).

If you have a serious problem with Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus, then consider growing Talladega or Amelia.

DarJones

For either good reading of the many types of seeds they have including many mnay tomato seeds try www.heirloomseeds.com very nice site to sit back and realx to read of all the different heirloom seeds they have and descriptions. I have ordered the marzano and roma's tomato seeds in past from them, i use a machine from italy yes it was expensive but i can put the whole tomato after i wash them all in machine and out 1 end comes the pulp and the other the seeds and skin, its a imperia spremy that i bought about 8 years back at italian store, for me its much easier now as before i used to use the hand crank type no electric.
Martin

The Villware/Roma/Weston has a crank, but also can use the motor unit that comes as an option for many pasta rolling machines. Unfortuneately, your Spremy has no optiona sieves for doing things like berries. There is now a SUPER San Marzano thats almost twice the size of the originals. Its a Redorta strain San Marzano. Also a Super Marzano type that is also bigger than the older versions. These are long with pointed ends. Early on, blossom end rot can occur, so the first few may show this. The BRE is caused by too rapid growth and not enough calcium uptake into the plants. I usually spray them with a water and calcium chloride mixture at the beginning of the season when the first few start to show a little ripening. My Villaware can 'crank' out a bushel in less than 30 minutes. It takes a little more time for me as I cut them open and dig out the liquid and some seeds. This helps to give a thick sauce without a lot of extra cooking.

ksrogers,
your right about the Spremy no options although it works good for tomatoes, last year when i dried some figs off tree's i decided for first time to try doing a few tomaotoes just on some wood with cheesecloth. I was really surprised at the outcome as they had a slight smokey taste for some reason thats great on sandwhiches, i did not dry to many for s=first time but i will dry a little more next season, any thought or hints you have on drying tomatoes outdoors without a dryer machine?
Martin

Hard to do outside unless they are always covered to prevent bugs, varmints and rain. If dried in the sun, they can take a few days, unless there is constant air moving. I could dry some in my greenhouse as it gets up beyond 130 degrees in summer if the door is closed. A dehydrator would be a better choice and will dry tomatoes very fast, especially the grape and cherry types. Not sure how they got smokey.. Figs I also dry in a dehydrator well. The smokey taste could have come from the wood they were on. What kind of wood, fir, cedar, pine, oak, hickory, etc.?

I dried the tomtoes on a piece of smooth plywood on outdoor table in full sun. I had cheesecloth on top of wood cut in half the roma tomatoes and slightly salted them,used half the board then the other half of board i put my peeled figs on then covered everything with cheesecloth. I picked a time where there was no rain in forcast which worked good. I put the tomatoes in olive oil and some in double ziplock bags for the freezer. The ones in oil were in fridge and i would use for sandwhiches thats when i noticed a slight smokey taste a good taste though. You know im the only 1 that eats the dried tomatoes so i do not dry too many just enough last year to last me as for the figs i have 4 adult tree's and 11 small ones in trial that should produce soon all growing in containers of different types, its fun.
My neighbor has one of those small type dryers he likes to use .
Martin

My fig is the brown turkey type. Supposedly winter hardy around here. Its in a big 2x2 foot square pot and is now seriously root bound as the roots are showing up on the surface of the soil of 20 inch deep pot. I will be planting it outside this coming spring. I have never peeled my figs, and don't seem to know why that would have to be done. If I attempted that, there would be almost nothing left except a little mush. It could be that the plywood gave off an odor, especially if its outdoor ply which is chemically treated. Might be better to dry on a big clean food grade plastic surface, or some kind of stainless steel screen to get air underneath. My dehydrator is the old round Ronco and has done a great job for many years. I have two, with extra shelves so I can dry a lot of stuff at once.

ksrogers, i used to have brown turkey tree and enjoyed it some frownon it as not being one of the better tasting types i dont know why i think there very good and they are pretty hardy. Sounds like yours needs root pruning which is best done before coming out of dormancy although i have done mine in early spring will no bad effects. I did leave a few to dry with skin on but i enjoy them with skin off more when drying although during picking time i eat them mostly with skin on right off the tree i know some say aww you should wash them but everyones different i suppose, hardy chicago and Sals are 2 good figs for cold as well, although i have to bring all of mine for winter storage in garage and they all do fine over the years its a hobby of mine along with growing some vegtables and some flowers. Im going to take your advice and dry a few more this coming season on something other than wood. If you need any cuttings of figs trees i should have a few next season as we trade or give away on fig forum but just email me if you like thru the forum or i forget. For me i have too many as is for trade but would be happy to send you some sticks to root next season if you like.
Martin

I cut every limb down a lot, to bring the tree back down to about 3 fet tall again. Some limbs were an inch in diameter and the tree tends to leaf out only at the last few inches of each stem. Right now, I see a few tiny green buds that are popping out just below the cuts. The pot weighs about 75 pounds and is very hard to move around. I have a small tractor and tow a cart behind it. Even there, I have to lift that heavy pot to get it out to the back patio from my garage which is all downhill. The Brown Turkey type for me was VERY sweet. I see they turn from green to brown almost overnight and swell up almost twice the size when ripe. I feed my a fruit trees fertiizer from Gardens Alive. All my other fruit trees also get that fert. Today, my grafted Pluot has just arrived and with almost a foot of snow still falling, it as to wait a while before being planted outside. The box is 6 foot x12x12 inches. Well packed, for the $40+ it cost me just to ship it here. The tree an shipping was $125. I only hope that it will produce from all four grafts, but won't know until the trees are in bloom and leafing out. My fig, this past summer has two new shoots from the soil about 2 inches away from the main trunk. I really have no more space left for trees once these I have get bigger.

Hi Jude,

I have had really good luck growing Opalka, Amish Paste and Speckled Roman for Annie's salsa. They are all great tasting, meaty tomatoes. Plus, Speckled Roman is gorgeous:

{{gwi:111212}}

Like other posters have mentioned, I also combine those with non-paste types like Cherokee Purple, Black from Tula, for added flavor. All are available from Seed Savers Exchange's regular catalog at http://www.seedsavers.org/Items.aspx?hierId=43

I would suggest requesting their paper catalog (no membership needed). It is really a work of art.

I'm not a big fan of Burpee or Cook's Garden. Burpee's charging around $5.00 for a limit number of hybrid seed seems excessive to me. The last time I ordered from Cook's, the collection of seed that they sent me was very old (with no date on the seed packets). Out of the three varieties that I planted, two did not germinate and the squash seed was so old it was cracking and barely germinated. Perhaps others have had better luck, but I will not order from them again.

Best of luck with your canning next year!
Bellatrix

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed Savers Exchange

Oh my gosh, Bellatrix, those tomatoes ARE gorgeous. I'm in a quandry about planting seed and it's not quite, but pretty dang close to, 2009.
I talked briefly to DH about starting tomatoes from seed and he said he did not have the proper place to grow plants from seed. Since I don't garden, I didn't have much to suggest. Maybe in the next little while I can talk him into trying.
Lordy, 'em ar maters shore are purty!

jude

Jude,

There are tons of places online to order plants from.

Sorry, I can't post any links, I happen to run one of them. Do a google search for "heirloom tomato plants" and you will find several. My site is on the first page.

DarJones

Here is the link for heirloom seeds they have the ones not genetically altered

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/
ksrogers ,here are a few pictures of some of my fig tree's and the ripe fruit i must have deleted the pictures of my tomatoes darn it.
Happy New Year !
{{gwi:746245}}
{{gwi:823150}}

Those figs and plants look exactly like mine. The leaves usually measure at least 6-8 inches across. I just checked on the plant. There are now 5 new shoots next to the main trunk in the big pot. My grafted Pluot tree arrived today too. We have just had a heavy snow and so it can't be planted yet.

Below is a link for a nursery in NJ that carries many varieties of peppers, both hot and sweet. They also offer 130 differnet tyes of tomato plants. The sell healthy plants for about $3 each, if you don't wnat to grow from seeds. I bought from them some years ago and was quite impressed at how they package up plants for shipping. This company has more vareties of plants compared to any other nursery or plant dealer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cross Country Nurseries.

I just discovered that Seed Savers Exchange also sells mail order plants. They do have Amish Paste, but unfortunately not Speckled Roman.

If you have the right light set up, starting seeds inside is not very difficult. I start mine in the basement (granted, it is heated) on a metal storage rack. I have three shop lights suspended from a chain attached to the rack so I can lower or raise the lights. This thread: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/pepper/msg030931572059.html "pictures of your indoor setup after seeds germinate..." has pictures of my setup. Either scroll down the page to about the middle or search on bellatrix.

Bellatrix

Here is a link that might be useful: Seed starting setups

Baker Creek Seeds (www.rareseeds.com) has wonderful speckled romas. My plants last year were so vigorous that they fell over the tops of my 5' cages - loaded with fruit. Paste from these are like heaven and dried are just plain wonderful.

Nancy

Another rare and heirloom seed company..

Here is a link that might be useful: Underwood Gardens

Many of you proabably are familiar with this website, Tatiana's Tomato Base, but I will post it. She has a huge database of heirlooms and beyond a description fo each variety, there are reviews from real growers of each variety.
http://t-garden.homeip.net/mwiki/index.php/Main_Page

Some of the older seed types tend to me more prone to diseases. If you do plant heirloom types, be sure they are not grown in the same areas that may have had diseased tomatoes in the past years or three. I knew something was wrong when a few of my plants turned all black within a month of transplanting into the garden. Now, I use a few fungal sprays to help prevent diseases, but they only work so well. Also, I prefer soaker hoses so the foliage doesn't get wet all the time.

jude,

If DH is the gardener it definitely needs to be his decision whether to bother growing from seed! ;-) It takes less room and trouble than I had thought it would but it of course does take some. You need to start six to eight weeks before your last frost date (still lots of time left before I can start them but probably coming up soon for you!), when you set out the plants, and you need a fluorescent light (no need for a fancy "gro light" setup --- a plain $10 4-foot shop light will do) and therefore room (indoors, or in a warmish garage---50 to 70 degrees is what you want) to put such a thing where the plants can go under it.

I am sure he will find you some good plant starts. As others have suggested, best approach is probably to ask for a mix of paste types and juicier types that are very flavourful --- and to be sure they are productive so you can put up some LOTS of salsa! ;-)

Good luck,

Zabby

I got a steel shelf system thats 7 foot tall and measures 2x4 feet per shelf. The shelves have metal sides as supports and wood chipboard shelves. I drilled two 1/2 inch holes at the metal ends of each shelf support to put short lengths of chain through. I used the common shop lights, but do prefer warm white, or grow lights, which are quite cheap at Home Depot, compared to some fancy pet shop that sells them for about $25 each. Each shelf gets two of the 2 light fixtures and being suspended on the chains, I can lower and raise them easily by pulling up and down in the chains and using a small piece of stiff wire shoved into a link so the chain cant pass through the drilled hole. I also have heat mats under the 11x20 inch trays. The heat mats are shut off once the plants are touching the clear plastic domes I place over each tray. I grow petunias, impatiens, portulaca, some herbs, tomatoes, seedless watermelons, peppers, and even broccoli and brussels sprouts as seedlings. These are all started aout the end of April, but also depend on what grwing length of time they need to mature. Some things that don't work as seedlings to be transplanted are corn, beans, and some herbs like dill, cilantro and a few others. My shelf system is against a wall, and I used aluminum foil on the walls to reflect light back to the plants. Usually, impatiens and petunias are in bloom once they get moved outside to the greenhouse the last week of May. My plant lights are on a timer and are on from 6am to about 10PM every day. They do very well and I have never had any problems with germination, or growth. I even started some asparagus from collected seeds, and they took a month to send up a very tiny thin spear. That summer, they get planted in my 'gus patch in an open area.

On drying tomatoes, figs, apple slices: Since it's summer when you do this, you could put them on cookie sheets or pans and put them inside a car parked in the sun for a couple of days. No bugs, plenty of heat. It would work even better if you had screens of some sort to lay the fruit on. You can also dry them in the oven at very low temperature. For the figs, I split them in half. After they dry, I put them in freezer bags and store them in the freezer.

Drying in an oven can be very expensive, and would also require continous air movement. Usually home ovens will not go low enough in temperature to properly dry these items. Most home ovens are only able to go down to about 175 to 200 degrees. I dried whole figs and just refrigerated them and they are still good even after 2 years. I hope this summer to have a decent crop again, as I lost all off the tree this last summer. If you do use a car as the heat source, make sure there is a window thats open about an inch. This will help in removing the moisture buildup. If ts a fairly new car, the dried items might pick up some chemcial taste, if you can smell such things in a hot car. A recent Alton Brown show had revised his original furnace air filter method, as it was just too risky to get glass fibers into the dried foods.

I dry between 800 and 1500 lbs of tomatoes every year. I have both...a huge solar dehydrator (I got the plans on line) and I have a commercial 15 shelf dehydrator. Other than the fact that the commercial dehydrator dries everything about 50 times as fast, there is no difference in the finished product. If you want names of the varieties I grow for dehydrating, email me. I only grow paste tomatoes that are large, not very juicy, have very few seeds and are pretty tangy. I store dehydrated tomatoes in vacuum bags in my freezer and in oil in quart jars in my root cellar which maintains a constant temp of 38 so consider that as "refrigerated" which tomatoes in oil should be. I only use Costoluto Genovese for canned tomato sauce. I have tried maybe 30 other tomato varieties for sauce and none had as good a finished flavor (this tomato's flavor is enhanced by cooking as I find them raw just kind of average.)CG has has very little moisture so once run through the food mill, it has a really thick consistency and is incredibly sweet. I can a marinara sauce using the CG that people beg me for (my family does not want me giving any to anyone...I don't eat it so I have no idea.)

For Salsa, Opalka, Chinese or Carol Chyko...very few seeds, not a lot of moisture and they pack a zing.

The faster something dries, the more flavor and aroma it will have. There is also less chance of any spoilage if its dried quickly. From year to year, tomato flavors on the same varieties and vary greatly. Its always a good idea to grow several types as a blend. I usually dig out seeds and the liquid if its noticable inside the toms. This also reduces the watery liquid in the finished strained sauce. I was impressed with the OxHeart in that it was 85% pulp and very little liquid. Not a huge amount of flavor, but they add 'body' to a sauce. I hate seeing water left from a sauce at the bottom of the bowl of spagetti.

We had dinner at a very upscale Italian Restaurant right before Christmas and I had the spaghetti Marinara and there was at least an inch of water in the bottom of the bowl when I finished (I guess it could have been from not draining the pasta well but the sauce was really mediocre at best.) We left on Nov. 4 and flew to Rome and then took a transatlantic cruise back for a total of 21 days. Anyway, I had some of the best sauce I have ever eaten in my life at a small restaurant in Rome. I asked if they made their own sauce and if so, what kind of tomato was used but the chef said he did not know the name of the tomato...he just buys the same ones from one guy at the big outdoor produce market. DRATS!

Jude, I can vouch for Darrel's (Fusion Power) tomatoes, if you want to ask your DH to check out his website.

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom tomato website

brokenbar,

And you didn't ask for directions to the market, buy tomatoes from the guy, squeeze out some seeds, and sneak them back into the country? Sheesh!

Brokenbar, can I tell you how envious I am of your pasta experience in Rome and the cruise. I've been to Italy a couple of times, last year for 10 days...never been on a 21 day cruise or a trip anywhere of that duration. Lord willing and the creeks don't rise I do have a European River Cruise planned for next Oct., but it's only 10 days. However, I'm okay with that.
jude

Zabby, You are right, I should have! Then I would have gotten busted by Customs smuggling my poor little seeds into this country!

Jude, Every fall, 4 different Cruise lines send 12 ships that have been doing 7 day cruises in the Mediterranean, across the Atlantic to Florida, where they will do 7 day cruises around the Caribbean (and in the Spring, the process is reversed.) Anyway, those "repositioning" cruises are only 899.00 per person for 16 days. For both of us, hotels, flight Billings to Rome & Fort Lauderdale back to Billings, all shuttles, etc was 3900.00 for both of us.

I wanted to mention something else, off topic. If you go to www.iespell.com, you can download their free spell checker that works anywhere you type while on the internet. Saves me from embarrasing myself with typos!