Swale Battle continues

15 years ago

You guys may remember I posted a few days ago about getting a citation for having heliconias on my swale. The citation was for view obstruction. The reason we got the citation though was because my neighbor complained because he could no longer park his five cars there. Anyway to make a long story as short as possible hubby and I removed the heliconias and planted low growing native plants in the swale. Now technically nothing is supposed to be planted in the swale. Of course you would not know that looking around my neighborhood. Everyone's swale here is either landscaped or they use it as a parking lot and it looks horrible. We are the only ones who received a citation even though many of our neighbors have swales that are full of very bushy view blocking plants. We expect to get another citation because the neighbor still can't park his cars on our swale.

I AM WAITING FOR IT AND I WILL NOT REMOVE MY PLANTS I WILL GO TO COURT. I have already contacted senators, representative and my county commissioners as well as a few people in DERM and a few other people who I thought could help.

I've explained to them how ridiculous it is for the county to be able to fine me for having a poorly kept swale ($250), and at the same time allow people to park on my swale. When the guy was parking there all my grass was dead and it looked horrible. I couldn't take it any longer. I also thought it was dumb to not allow people to landscape their swales...until I read up on swales and saw that they are there to help prevent flooding. Of course parked cars make the swales useless because they compact the dirt and prevent the water from absorbing. So I planted a few natives in a way to prevent cars from parking but I left enough grass for the swale to do it job. Keep in mind we do not live in an area that floods.

Well so far I have been contacted by four senators and a guy at DERM who agree with me. Property values do drop when the neighborhood looks like a parking lot with no plants. So it looks like I may be changing the law.

SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MESS WITH AN UNEMPLOYED LAWYER!!!! I have nothing better to do than fight this battle. :-) It just really bugs me that some guy who is renting thinks its alright to turn the neighborhood into a parking lot.

I just thought you guys might enjoy my little ordeal....and the battle which it looks like I will win. And if any of you are going through the same problem....fight it...don't let stupid laws make your property values drop. I'm dying to go to court anyway. There is no way I could lose....I mean how could I be fined for something the whole neighborhood is doing (its an arbitrary law in the way its enforced and that's supposed to be illegal) ....I will not remove my natives unless parking is no longer allowed on my swale :-) I really hope I do have to go court. I will keep you guys informed.

Featured Answer

minibim

15 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

I would check out what the codes are that define "single family". A rental and five cars, really what are the chances it's a single family vs. 5 room mates?

If they want to live in a glass house, I guarantee you can find some code violations to complain about on their property. Heck, look up the address on the property appraiser's site. Make sure the owner isn't renting it, while still keeping it homesteaded. That's a nice stiff penalty.

Comments (46)

natives_and_veggies
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I'm with you. Use your swale as it is meant to be used, with natives in it, and insist that your neighbor doesn't park in your swale. I understand legally it's not yours. But I also agree that it wasn't designed for parking.

Here in Dade people can put "buttons" in their swale, but not "piers" or "pyramids."

All discourage parking, but buttons are low and don't rip up the bottom of someone's car. While I agree you should not be able to rip off the bottom of someone else's car in a public area that is technically owned by the public, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect that your view from your front window is not of your neighbor's SUV.

I live on a street where the people around the corner have planted their swale with areca palms _ and I can't see to make the turn. That bugs me. Of course, I don't complain, because I'd rather areca palms than cars parked there.

But.... if what you've planted doesn't block the view, I say, it's yours to plant and enjoy and improve the view. And tell him to argue with the code enforcement board about the damage your natives are doing.

Of course, he may just park on them. Not sure how you deal with that, besides buttons, which might help.

susannah
solstice98
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Keep us up to date on this issue! I'm fascinated and definitely on your side. Are there any low growing Florida natives with thorns strong enough to flatten a tire?
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junkyardgirl
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I had a friend who was fined $250 because the back of her lawn wasn't cut low enough. The man she hired had started cutting it, but had to stop because he got a call that his daughter had collapsed and was in the hospital. Property standards had someone come the next day and cut it, and charged her $250. She promptly presented them for a bill for $500 for maintaining their swale for 20 years, written by her daughter, who is a paralegal. It accused them of all the things they accused her of, property neglect, failure to adhere to city standards laws, etc., etc. She threatened to sue for the money. They relented.

I'm glad you're winning. I hate people like your neighbor. Also, check to see how many people are allowed to live in a house. We got rid of some nasty, partying, noisy, drug using neighbors here because they had two extra people living in the house. Here, only 6 people are allowed to live in a 3 bedroom house.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thank you all for your support.....buttons have not worked as they pull in and park right over them.....I was going to put a few blue agave out there but figured someone could get hurt...to get the county on my side I have to try and be as reasonable as possible. I've already been contacted by a few of my senators and a big wig over at DERM who are currently looking into the issue and agree with me about the whole situation. I wrote a beautiful letter which included the laws of other counties and cities in Florida who have already banned parking on the swales. I actually got a call from my senator last night telling me that he is going to be working on the problem....I informed them very politely that by letting people ruin swales they are essentially allowing property values to decline. In this economy I think that scared them a little. I have a whole battle strategy planned. I am really looking forward to the next step. Just let them cite me again :-) I hope they do:-)
naplesgardener
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
trini
Have you posted this on city-data.com in the Florida forum too? There's somebody with the exact same problem that you're describing. Amazing co-incidence.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Not so much a coincidence....I did not post there but hubby did.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
It is a county issue as I am in unincorporated Miami/Dade. I contacted everyone I could think of. Not surprisingly the county has not gotten back to me as yet whereas A few senators have. And the senators have forwarded my concerns to the county commissioner as well. The only way to get things done is to put alot of pressure on everyone. Otherwise people remain apathetic.
SaintPFLA
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Good luck, Trini! We are definitely cheering for you!

I have had run-ins with my horrible neighbors who are across my back alley, as well. The difference is, my neighbors were not parking on a swale. They were parking in MY DRIVEWAY!!! Yes - on MY property and blocking my car in my garage. They were doing this for YEARS.

I chose the polite route and for years would verbally communicate that I don't want their oil leaking piece of crap in MY drive. I posted a 'no parking sign or will be towed'. I verbally warned them that I will tow them if they continue to do so...blah blah blah.

They just ignored me and kept doing it. They would wait until late evening and park in my drive and then move it in the early morning. I caught them doing this a few times.

Some people are dense and being 'nice' only prolongs the issue. I finally grew a spine and had the Sea-Hag's car towed.

The Sea-Hag actually had the gall to cuss me out for towing her car from MY DRIVEWAY!

There's a definite sense of 'entitlement' taking place here...

I have free legal coverage through my company and I will be taking legal action next time as well.

So....I'm definitely cheering you on! Go get them! :-)
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Minibim...interestesting that you should mention the homestead exemption....I already checked....the landlord is getting a homestead exemption on the property that he is renting. However we think he may live there as well. So there are really six cars for that house. The problem with getting him fined for this is that I believe as long as the house remains his primary residence he is allowed the exemption. We searched to see if he had any other houses anywhere and we could not find any. So unfortunately this may be a dead end. That's not to say I won't report him if he complains again. For now it seems our native plantings are working and they have not parked on the swale. Code Enforcement is coming back on Tuesday so I will keep you informed.

Saintpfla....I would have reported your neighbors a long time ago :-) Lucky for you...you have free legal coverage...I am an attorney so I can fight this also with little expense...they had no idea who they were messing with :-)
countrynest
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
trini,
I'm clapping for you.I also am responsible for changing
the law,years ago.With the help of getting the neighbors
involved by getting signatures with a petition. I won
and it fell so good!
Please do keep us posted.
Felix
susieq07
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We have swales also that are maintained by the HOA so only weeds or grass to be mowed and no one parks on them, some do on cul-de-sac's for overnight if extra company or party but that's about it!!! guess we're luckier than you?
c9pilot
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
So - please keep in mind that I'm a transplant from California - what exactly is a swale?
I'm picturing something like a ditch, but nobody would park in it, so I just don't understand what this is at all.
Is it on private property with an easement? Or county property? Or community property?
Just curious, thanks!
tomncath
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hey C9,

How's that plumeria doing? A swale is typically the area between the sidewalk and the road. It's usually easement property that YOU are expected to maintain although it's public property, not yours.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
A swale is the piece of land between the sidewalk and the street. It's main purpose is to help clean and divert stormwater to help prevent flooding. They are usually covered by grass. It is considered county/city property but property owners are responsible for its care and maintainance. Which means we have to make sure the grass is mowed and well tended to. We can be fined if the grass dies or gets overgrown $250. The problem with parking on the swale is that it reduces the swales usefulness because cars compact the soil and make it harder for water to seep through the ground. Parking on swales also kills the grass which also makes the swale less useful for cleaning the water. Hope this helped.
solstice98
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I'm from the midwest and have never heard that strip of land called a swale. A swale to me is a low marshy area of greenery - usually grass or low weeds - left green to prevent flooding of a higher area. Oddly, we always called the area between the sidewalk and the street a berm, which is a raised area of landscaping, by definition. One low, the other high; neither exactly right for the piece of ground we are talking about. This must be a regional thing.

Before I heard your definition I thought you were talking about a drainage area between your home and your neighbors. Now I understand you mean he is parking in front of your house on what is essentially your lawn, but across the sidewalk from your house!?! Is that right!?! How incredibly rude is this guy? Can't you have him towed away? If you are responsible for the upkeep of this area, then in all but right-of-way issues it's yours. The city gets to dig it up for utilities, but your neighbor doesn't get to park there. Keep fighting!!!
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Solstice you are correct...he is extremely rude...and had the audacity to tell me his landlord told him he could park there!!! I live on a corner lot and he parks on the swale on the side of the house not in front. Unfortunately in Miami/Dade county there is currently no law in place to stop him from parking there....you should see what his lawn looks like now that he has to park in front of his own house. The grass is completely dead. And you don't have to worry...we will keep fighting...most of our neighbors agree with us and were happy when we started planting there. I also found out that his landlord currently has a homestead exemption for the house....I can guarantee he won't have it for much longer. Lets see if he keeps renting it out when he loses the $25,000 exemption.
junkyardgirl
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You go Trini! I had a neighbor who was selling used cars out of his yard, which isn't illegal, but he was parking them on city right of way with a "for sale" sign on them. I kept calling, and they investigated. They said that he moved them back onto his property, but he was smart, because he did all his transactions off his property, so they couldn't charge him with running a car business from his home. Still, eventually, they kept watching him so closely, he gave it up. He moved the car sales down to another property he owned on the highway, a commercial property that housed a bar and restaurant. In the meantime, they were getting complaints that he was ripping people off on the cars. They pulled a sting on him, got him to sign the papers inside the bar, which wasn't licensed as a car dealership, and they got him. The detective didn't like him anyway, so he called and told me about it. He said he'd been trying to get that ba**ard for years on something, because he was the crookedest person in town, and he was happy he finally did with my help.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Good for you junkyardgirl... so many people don't seem to care about their neighbors or neighborhoods anymore. I hate having to go this route but they have given me no choice....I will not allow my property to lose value because my neighbors don't have sense enough to respect their neighbors.
billbrandi
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Okay, I'm born and bred in Florida and until this day have not heard the word "swale". When I opened the topic on this website I expected to see a discussion of something akin to gruel, porridge, or mush. That's what the word conjures to me.

How about using ditch, creek bed or retention pond?
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Sorry...but when I got my citation it said swale....thats the only reason I know the word...I figured it was a common florida thing....I myself am from NY. It was a new word to me too:-)
teeka0801(7aNoVa)
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
on concrete surface?You know what I mean, the side of the road, driveways, but not on grass??!!!

Since when is it legal to park on a grassy area?

I understand some people have gravel or mulch driveways and that would qualify as okay, but I can't imagine it would be okay to park on the swale altogether.That is just not a parking area,period.

teeka
solstice98
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
And even if you thought it was OK to park on a swale, how could you justify parking on your neighbor's swale? Just because it's the side of the house and not the front doesn't make it any more acceptable. I'm just amazed by this.

Even if there isn't a law that specifically prohibits parking on the swale, I would call to have him towed for parking on my swale. And if that didn't work I would trap some squirrels and lock them in his car overnight.
minibim
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I've always known "swale", "berm" was a word I'd never heard of until a couple of years ago. Suddenly everything the city did anymore needed a "berm". Figured it was a new code word; like we don't have turn lanes here, we have ingress and egress lanes.

The way our city uses "berm" it is usually a small hill like barrier with landscaping, usually to shield a housing development from the road.
c9pilot
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Okay, I think I know what it is now.
From your house, there's your yard, then a sidewalk (maybe) and then the swale (usually grass, about 2 yards wide), then the gutter and street.
Without the sidewalk, like at my house, it'd be hard to figure out where your yard ends and the swale starts, but I think it's the part marked on my survey, even though my sprinklers run right along the gutter.

Tom, one of the plumerias is doing GREAT - beautiful & fully leafed out, and one of them is doing OK with just one leaf and some leaf buds. The 3rd and 4th ones, from two neighbors, aren't doing so well. I'm treating them all the same, so I don't know what's up there. I'm working up my landscaping plan, which I hope to post up here sometime for feedback, and have yet to figure out where to put 4 plumeria and all the other stuff I want. ((sigh))

R/
Lisa
nativemel
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
A swale is the portion of the public road right-of-way, adjacent to your land, which is not paved (with asphalt, bricks, concrete or whatever your road happens to be paved with), that happens to be lower than the adjacent land.

And, swale is the opposite of berm in a sense. Berm is, as some have previously described here, a built up area used to buffer one area from another. It could be very low; just a short mound of dirt covered in sod, to buffer a front yard from a swale area. It could be very high; as in a sloping six foot tall hill planted in even taller plants, to buffer a neighborhood from a noisy public highway.

A swale is intended to assist in the drainage and/or storage of storm-water runoff (a/k/a rain, torrential or not); those purposes that trinigemini has previously mentioned here. A swale is usually a man-made depression in the earth. Picture, if you will, a waterless ditch or something smaller and more shallow than a retention pond. In fact, don't even picture it in your mind. Click the link below to see a very good example of a swale.

Size specifications for swale areas could appear in the land development codes for your county, or in a development orders issued by the county before construction of a neighborhood, or as a condition of the permit issued for your neighborhood by the local water management district. When properties are being developed, there is a very intricate system of water drainage, retention, detention and percolation set up as dictated by the local water management district. Some of those areas are so crucial and sensitive that there are restrictions placed in the county public records to put all buyers on notice that they cannot make changes to the grading (and sometimes planting) of their land without approval of the water management district.

It is common to find people who are confused about the boundaries of their property. Where the pavement ends is not necessarily where your property begins. You can refer back to the survey prepared for you when you purchased your land, or you can check the county property appraiser maps and records for measurements (however, they are not always accurate). But it is more than likely that you have some sort of depressed area immediately adjacent to your front yard, even if it does not appear to be low, marshy or swampy.

Unfortunately it is also common to find people like trini's neighbor, who just don't consider (or maybe even care) about their impact on the environment. In any case, parking in the swale is detrimental to its underlying purpose. The South Florida Water Management District and/or local code enforcement should be interested in trini's neighbor's destruction of the swale. After all, it's not like trini is in Volusia County where they don't care if your yard floods every time it rains. :)

Good luck to you, trinigemini, but I'm confident this one is going to be in your favor.

Sixteen years of working for real estate attorneys in Florida. Hope this post is helpful to someone out there.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wikipedia - swale
junkyardgirl
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I have a front swale and a back swale, because my property backs onto a drainage ditch. I had never heard of a swale either, because where I'm from, they have curb and gutter systems. I don't know why they dont have that here. My city looks like they experimented with drainage systems until they got it right, then they just started building up the lots 5 feet. All that does is turn the streets into rivers during a heavy rain. My neighborhood, thank goodness, has a decent drainage system.

I checked it out for drainage when I moved here. There is something to be said for having a father who was a civil engineer. I remember him explaining drainage systems to me once when I was little. I don't remember why, but he did.
imatallun
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Trinigemeni, you have someone cheering for you just a bit north of you! You go girl!

Nativemel, excellent post. If my mind isn't deceiving me, I think you previously posted that not even the most vile gated Home Owner Assn. bylaws can prevent the propagation of native plants. Would that law also apply in Trini's current situation?

In awe, good luck!
m
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Imatatulun...you are correct in that the state has recently banned home owners associations from stopping native plantings...however the same does not apply to the counties, city and state. I pointed out to the public works person that native planting and xeriscaping was encouraged in Florida and that grass was water hungry and needed fertilizer. She said that only applies to my property and not the swale. I guess they want water hungry grass to help with the flooding. Problem is what happens in times of drought.
auntiejan
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
This conversation really has me intrigued. I loathe HOAs and the little Hitlers that run them, county public works aren't much better. I sure hope you win this fight Trini; sounds like you will. Your neighbor sure has a lot of nerve! Good luck to you!
thonotorose
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Billbrandi,

That would be swill.... and a Swill Battle would be a food fight.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Maybe that should be my next step :-)
babalu_aye
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Trinigemini,

Is it permissible to put a few well-placed boulders along the edge of the street? I did that at a previous home to prevent people from driving/parking on my lawn.

John
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Unfortunately no...nothing is allowed in the swale except for the little round buttons that must be placed four feet apart. They just park right over them. So far my native planting has worked and I have not gotten another citation as yet.
billbrandi
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I've been following the swale battle for days now and am sensing a great deal of rancor and anger among the gardeners out there. Blood pressures must be running out of sight. So I thought I would lighten it up a bit:

There once was a gardener named Dale;
Who decided to grow flowers on his swale;
But the county objected;
Their citation he rejected;
Now Dale has landed in jail.
trinigemini
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Very cute billbrandi....I can guarantee though that I won't end up in jail :-) This is called simple civil disobedience...but not the kind that can get me locked up....of course if I get fines and I don't pay, they can put a lien on my house. But I don't anticipate that problem. From my contact with several different government officials they are all on my side. So gardeners can win battles if they choose to fight :-)
imatallun
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
A++ on the poem Billbrandi.

Trini I (very briefly) searched Florida native grass out of curiousity and came up with absolutely nothing.

Keep up the good work, accolades to you!
m
JWW-1
11 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hello:
I just discovered this web site and will be happy to join the battle of the swale! I live on a street that divides N. Miami from unincorporated Dade. I live in a townhome on the unincorporated side. There is a beautiful swale that stretches along in front of our townhomes filled with fully grown & neatly trimmed ficus trees. There are some low growing shrubs as well. There are 5 buildings that each hold 4 townhomes in our small development. Unfortunately, some of the residents are renters, not owners! Some of them have now decided to park in our beautiful swale on a daily basis. Of course, it obstructs the view of vehicles exiting our comples and will eventually destroy the grass. I have contacted our developer who runs the association and he said that unfortunately, there is nothing they can do to stop people from parking in the swale. It does not belong to us although we maintain the area. Eventually, it is going to destroy everything! The part that bugs me is across the street there parking available all along the street! They are just too lazy to walk an additional 10 feet! If you travel thru the areas of N. Miami where there was once some beautiful homes (some still are but few and far between), the swales have been destroyed and are now nothing but dirt ditches. People moved into these homes with many many family and friends (to lower the cost) and have parked cars across the property and swales. Many homes that once looked beautiful are now decrepid, overgrown dumps that look like car lots! What a shame the city has not done a thing to change the laws! I am afraid this is what is going to happen to our complex and area if nothing is done to change the laws regarding parking on the swales.
Ingrid Thrall
8 years ago
Maybe you could "adopt a tree". Most cities have this program.

http://gyr.fortlauderdale.gov/greener-government/natural-resources-preservation/growing-our-green-canopy/tree-give-a-ways-and-programs/adopt-a-tree
Mia Miami
6 years ago
Old post but I just came across it. I live in Miami too and yes the swale thing is BS. It is the home owners duty by law to keep the swale in good / mowed condition but God forbid you keep it in great condition with landscaping to improve the looks of your property and the neighborhood and you can get a fine. If neighbors don't have enough room in their driveway to park then they should just deal with it and park up the street a hose or two on an open swale. Personally I wouldn't do more than mow a swale and keep the grass because its city property and since you are not supposed to have any plants on it people can pick and steal your flowers freely and not get in any legal trouble. If you got in trouble I'd report all your neighbors who have planted things on their swales, have swales in disrepair or have anything blocking the swales like pointed stones etc. Also people have to park in the direction of traffic on a swale as well. Hate to sound like a jerk but if you're going to get in trouble for keeping the swale nice, everyone who is doing anything wrong it their swale should be punished too. Perhaps line the edge of your property with some nice landscaping. Sorry Miami sucks with some rules. I feel ya.
Pea
6 years ago
Our swale is a nice deepish ditch. Its too hard to mow so i have to weedwack it. I would not ever plant anything in it as it is for drainage. I wouldn't park in it either as it would take a tow truck to haul you out. We have neighbors that park on the roadside of their own swale, their cars tipped at an angle and if you open the car door you are likely to fall out. The county sends out a large mower every couple of months the mow the road side of the swales of undeveloped properties, if your road side of the swale looks too long they mows yours too...it rarely looks pretty after they hack at it.
tcgardener Zone 10a SE Florida
6 years ago
There is a terrible drought going on all over S. Florida. Fires happen all the time...
yjjerome
6 years ago
Any update on this "parking on swale" issue? I live in unincorporated Miami-Dade, and I am dealing with folks parking on my swale. Just got an email from my HOA telling me they can do nothing about it, and in fact, the parking is legal. Please let me know if there has been any headway as far as new laws, etc. Thanks!
imagardener27
6 years ago
wow, old thread that houzz sent me an email about. No bad neighbors parking on my swale but...a couple weeks ago spouse and I went to look at a property to buy, meeting our agent there, we all 3 arrived separately and spouse got there first. When I drove up he was looking strange and told me the owner was bat-crap crazy yelling at him that she didn't want to sell after all. Agent showed up in couple minutes and homeowner started yelling at him and us to move our cars off her property. Yep, we were parked on the swale. Our agent informed her that was not her property and we were perfectly legal to park there. She shut right up. We were trying to be polite by NOT parking in her driveway. But as stated she was crazy. Later called us to apologize "please come back" but we would never get involved in anything where the other person could not be trusted to close the deal.
Frustrated InDade
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Any updates to your battle? I’m having the same issue. This is very frustrating. A few months ago I caught my neighbor stealing from my property.....on camera. 5 months later, I’m still waiting to be contacted by the detectives to prosecute. However, since I called the cops my neighbor has been harassing me. Now, he is having his friends park on my swale and jack it up after I have been spending money to maintain it. (Miami Dade).
flmcp97
4 years ago
No comments on a long time - but what about the homeowners that put concrete rocks in their swales. Seems like an accident waiting to happen. Is that legal in the city of miami?

Swale Battle continues

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