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masi61_gw

is sauce that has some olive oil in it able to be canned?

masi61
15 years ago

I made homemade sauce last week with a large basket of skinned and peeled tomotoes that I ran through the food puree attachment on my wife's Kitchenaide mixer. I cooked the puree down 50% then added sauteed onions and garlic and a heaping teaspoon of freshly made pesto to the mix. I froze this batch in freezer bags, but was thinking of canning the next batch.

Am I able to can the already made sauce by adding reconstitued lemon juice to the mason jars or should I just can the peeled and seeded tomatoes only?

I'm going to be using a hot water bath canner, probably not a pressure canner this year.

Thanks for your help.

Comments (25)

  • ksrogers
    15 years ago

    There are many recent posts here about using an oil in home canning. In most cases its not safe to use any kinds of oil. It can go rancid as well as harbor some bacteria. It is allowed, at times, to use a very small amount, about a tablespoon maximum, in a batch of about 7 quarts. Adding extra acid is very necessary for most home canning however.

  • jenniesue
    15 years ago

    that wouldn't be safe to can because of the oil and because of the unknown ratio of low acid ingredients to tomatoes.
    This recipe is really good and has basil, onions, and garlic:
    Chunky Basil Pasta Sauce
    Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
    -------- ------------ --------------------------------
    8 cups (2 L) coarsely chopped peeled tomatoes -- (about 9-12 tomatoes or 4 lb/2 kg)
    1 cup chopped onion -- (250 mL)
    3 cloves garlic -- minced
    2/3 cup red wine -- (150 mL)
    1/3 cup red wine vinegar (5 % strength) -- (75 mL)
    1/2 cup chopped fresh basil -- (125 mL)
    1 tablespoon chopped fresh parsley -- (15 mL)
    1 teaspoon pickling salt -- (5 mL)
    1/2 teaspoon granulated sugar -- (2 mL)
    1 6-oz/156 mL) can tomato paste
    Combine tomatoes, onion, garlic, wine, vinegar, basil, parsley, salt, sugar and tomato paste in a very large non-reactive pan. Bring to a boil over high heat, reduce heat to low and simmer, uncovered, for 40 minutes or until mixture reaches desired consistency, stirring frequently.
    Remove hot jars from canner and ladle sauce into jars to within 1/2 inch (1 cm) of rim (head space). Process 35 minutes for pin (500 mL) jars and 40 minutes for quart (1 L) jars in a BWB.
    Yield:
    "8 cups"

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  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    I'm not advocating the use of oil pre-canned tomato sauce, and I have no problem with understanding how this is a potential threat, just naturally curious.

    Has there been an incidence where someone sautéed some garlic and onion in, say a tablespoon of olive oil, then cooked up a batch of, say, a couple quarts of tomato sauce, and then BWB, and then contracted botulism poisoning?

    Or does this precaution originate / is extrapolated from the oil in home-canned fish, which does have reported cases of botulism, or other incidences?
    I tried searching for some info, but was unable to find anything.

  • masi61
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thanks jenniesue. I will try your recipe. What's the purpose of the wine BTW?

    david52: I would like to know of actual cases myself to guide if there is any wiggle room in some of the canning procedures and recipes. Honestly, I'm pretty good at following directions, pay attention to details, but fear that I'll do a critical step incorrectly.

  • readinglady
    15 years ago

    Oil impedes heat penetration and insulates bacteria and botulism spores from heat. If the recipe isn't tested to account for appropriate additional processing time you can end up with a product which didn't reach the necessary temperature to kill botulism spores.

    Tested recipes account for the oil and if boiling water bathed include enough acid to compensate for oil's effects.

    Most cases of botulism come from home-canning. Some recipes, like Katie C's Tomato Soup, do include a measure of oil, but that recipe is pressure-canned.

    The Chunky Basil Pasta Sauce comes from Ellie Topp and Margaret Howard's "Small-Batch Preserving," which is an excellent resource. Ellie Topp is a respected Canadian food scientist who has developed recipes for Bernardin and has also been a consultant with the Canadian government. Margaret Howard is a registered dietician.

    Their recipes often call for wine rather than bottled lemon juice or vinegar to achieve the desired acidity. I think it results in improved taste in many cases. But they do have the resources to test. Ellie Topp also developed a method for infusing herbs, garlic, etc. in oil with increased safety.

    Whenever possible we try to cite sources for all recipes posted. It's not just giving appropriate credit, but it allows those who are interested to look up the source for other recipes. A new edition of "Small-Batch Preserving" has just been published.

    Carol

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    Not a whole lot of folks get sick from it, 263 in 10 years, and it seems most of it comes from fish canning in Alaska, Washington, and Idaho.

    Abstract from the CDC report:

    "Foodborne botulism, a potentially lethal neuroparalytic disease, is caused by ingesting preformed Clostridium botulinum neurotoxin. We reviewed surveillance data and reports from 1990 to 2000. Of 263 cases from 160 foodborne botulism events (episode of one or more related cases) in the United States, 103 (39%) cases and 58 events occurred in Alaska. Patients' median age was 48 years; 154 (59%) were female; the case-fatality rate was 4%. The median number of cases per event was 1 (range 1Â17). Toxin type A caused 51% of all cases; toxin type E caused 90% of Alaska cases. A particular food was implicated in 126 (79%) events. In the lower 49 states, a noncommercial food item was implicated in 70 (91%) events, most commonly home-canned vegetables (44%). Two restaurant-associated outbreaks affected 25 persons. All Alaska cases were attributable to traditional Alaska Native foods. Botulism prevention efforts should be focused on those who preserve food at home, Alaska Natives, and restaurant workers."

    reading further down in the link, seems another couple of cases were from trying to can garlic in oil.

    Here is a link that might be useful: CDC botulism incidence report

  • digdirt2
    15 years ago

    I guess I can't understand why including oil in any recipe is so important? Much less important enough to take the risk no matter how few may have died from botulism in recent history?

    But if it is then there is a tested recipe in BBB that allows for 1 T (no more) of olive oil (name: Seasoned Tomato Sauce). It is used to saute onions and garlic in, add the tomatoes and the remaining ingredients, cook for 20 minutes, and THEN process all through the mill.

    Then cook again down by half, add 2 T lemon juice to each quart jar and BWB process for 40 mins. Masi61 wanted to add the oil and sauted vegetables and pesto AFTER the cooking down. Big difference in the dilution rate and cooking processes.

    Carol explained the reason for the prohibition perfectly - one that can be proven in any high school chemistry class. Oil encapsulates bacteria (including bot spores). In so doing, it inhibits/prevents them from being killed while processing. That is why its use is prohibited/restricted in home canning.

    But each person has to decide which is more important - oil in their canned sauces or safely processed foods. ;)

    Dave

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    No argument at all.

    However, there is a tendency, quite proper, on this forum to emphasize the risk of botulism and following strict rules to avoid it, and not mentioning just how rare the occurrence from home-canned food actually is. Quite the contrary; its extraordinarily rare, and home canning is very safe. I know dozens of people who grow gardens and have the interest and desire to can, but are scared off by all the dire warnings. That isn't good.

    On that CDC link, down past the references are tables where exactly what vegetables that were canned made folks sick, over a period of 10 years, leading the pack are asparagus, with 9 occurrences / 10 years, and hot on the heels is home canned olives, with 4 cases / 10 years. Canned tomato juice? Once 10 years.

    It might be worth while to mention now and again safe it is, how few the incidences actually are. Perhaps keep an informal tally, and use a ratio of saying "Hey, its pretty darn safe" once, for every 25 times "You risk getting Botulism!!!"

    Perspective is a good thing :-)

  • kayskats
    15 years ago

    David ... I have to agree with you.
    There was a feature in the Washington Post food section a week ago about a woman who wanted to can, but got as far as "botulism" and was scared to death. After her eMail for help, one of the contributing chefs bought the Ball Blue Book and all the canning supplies and showed her how to can safely.
    I'm sure the danger is greater every time I get behind into a car. Am I going to stop driving? Heck no... but I AM going to drive as safely as I can and keep an eagle eye out for the other guy.
    Yes, botulism can be deadly and so can quite a few other things, but am I going to quit canning? Heck, no. Once again I am going to be very careful to learn the dangers and how they can be avoided.
    It isn't just a question of one tablespoon of oil ... it's a question of why is one tablespoon safe in one recipe and not another. And please do not tell me, "Because, it's a tested recipe.")
    There IS a reason and Carol stated it above (but it bears repeating:
    "Oil impedes heat penetration and insulates bacteria and botulism spores from heat. If the recipe isn't tested to account for appropriate additional processing time you can end up with a product which didn't reach the necessary temperature to kill botulism spores.
    Tested recipes account for the oil and if boiling water bathed include enough acid to compensate for oil's effects."

    THANK YOU CAROL.
    (BTW, there is a USDA-tested recipe for Marinated Peppers that uses a whole cup of oil on the NCHFP site).

  • ksrogers
    15 years ago

    Botulism is one of those things that isn't rampent, so there is not really much in the way of government studies or statistics regarding how many people have died or gotten very ill from a home canned product. If you want to add oil to a home canned product, you can, but at a risk in safety. Home canning has no processes that are duplicatesd by commerically canned products. We must treat all home canning a bit differently, especially when it comes to the final process, which involves very high heat and sometimes heat at high pressure to achieve am internal temperature higher than 212 degrees F. Unless you have a commerical heat processor machine, and the methods and additives commercial canning use, you just can't get home canning to be as safe, unless you follow the current home canning rules, which require high acid, high salt, high sugar, and/or high heat.

  • readinglady
    15 years ago

    While I fully understand that botulism is extremely rare, I for one would rather err on the side of caution in what I post. I know that is also true of many on this Forum.

    One of the things I appreciate about Harvest (and also rec.food.preserving) is an emphasis on safe preserving practices. I have been on other forums and have read numerous postings which recommend outmoded methods, processes and recipes of dubious safety and, occasionally, utterly false information. I suppose it's a tribute to human resilience that so few do get ill.

    I think we can never over-estimate people's capacity to misunderstand; therefore it's best to be very careful in what we say, because people will extrapolate and assume, arriving at conclusions we never imagined.

    Case-in-point: I have a friend who asked about canning tomatoes. I mentioned "vacuum" and he assumed it was fine to seal cooked tomatoes in jars using his FoodSaver. Once I corrected that misunderstanding and explained boiling water bath (I thought.), he went home to process the tomatoes. DH happened to visit and found the jars in the BWB, but the water only halfway up the jars. DH insisted on a "do-over" and supervised the re-processing.

    So while it's unfortunate that some are frightened out of canning by the spectre of botulism, I'd rather that than the alternative.

    I think, too, that we need to allow for all the other consequences of improper processing practices - plain garden-variety spoilage, mold, flat sour in tomatoes. Things which may not kill us but may make us sick or result in the loss of hours of labor, not to mention the cost of lids and utilities.

    Carol

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    Ken, again no argument. But on a forum like this, constantly discussing the possibility of botulism scares the bejabers out of a lot of potential canners and folks who would be interested in processing their own food, while in actual practice the incidence is extraordinarily low. I use a steam canner as well and don't worry about it, I'm confident I have a reasonable understanding of what I'm doing.

    I know, through our community of gardeners and farmers and folks at the farmers market and so on, roughly 40 people who can. Most of these folks learned from their Mamma's knee, this being an area with a high Mormon population that regularly can huge amounts, and a remote agriculture area that struggles economically, so the experience is there. Tell these folks they need to BWB their tomatoes for 90 minutes, and adjust it for 7500 ft altitude, they'll laugh in your face. I suspect that there is a fairly large number of folks out there who follow older time / temp / pressure guide lines, and not the newer ones, yet the incidence of botulism from home canned food remains very, very low.

    Pull the stops out if someone wandered into the GW forums and asked if they could can frog legs like Mama used to do. But if someone asks if they have to throw out their pickles because the power went off 5 minutes in the process, a more calming, encouraging, informative word on the actual risk.

    The world moves into 'all your stuff comes from China', lets not freak everybody out by scaring them about botulism from home canning. Its a remarkably safe process with a basis of understanding and some common sense.

  • digdirt2
    15 years ago

    with a basis of understanding and some common sense

    Aye, and therein lies the rub, David. ;)

    One need only browse the threads here to quickly discover how many posts are from first-time canners or inexperienced canners who have not "done their homework" yet are in the process of canning. They should be scared. Scared enough to be careful. It isn't so much the frequency of botulism and other related food borne illness that should concern and scare us. It is the high mortality rate of them. It is not just a disease, it is a deadly disease. Imagine if possible how one would feel to learn that a family member or friend had become seriously ill or worse due to our carelessness in food preservation. So a little fear is a good thing if it makes someone be more careful.

    Yet consistently questions pop-up that readily reveal a total lack of understanding of the basic principles of home food preservation. This despite all of the info that is readily available in books and from legit sources on the web. True, lack of time and demands of family may play a part but it is the fact that that family and perhaps friends or neighbors will also be ingesting those foods that makes the need for safety even more important.

    For that reason alone I think it behooves us to take exceptional care with any posted responses/instructions. They need to be responsible responses and if that means reminding others of the hazards so be it.

    And as for those scared off home canning simply because of the existence and mention of botulism then they too need to be doing a lot more research. And if they are unwilling to do so then likely they best be scared off from doing it for their own good. No one is born knowing how to drive, how to handle a gun, or how to home can. One must learn how to do it before they do it or they are a danger to themself and others.

    Home food preservation is easy to do, time consuming, but easy to do IF one first takes the time to learn how to do it properly and IF they then used approved recipes and follow the directions. Any other approach is hazardous.

    Meanwhile we can hopefully count on you to keep things in perspective on the forum and there are always the "to hell with pressure canning" bunch who knew someone that heard that a friend...etc. and the "I have done it this way for 50 years and am still alive" bunch to provide the alternate opinion too. And they do. ;)

    Dave

    Here is a link that might be useful: USDA/FDA: Incidence & Mortality of Botulism

  • readinglady
    15 years ago

    It is true of course that botulism is very rare; we all have to decide the level of risk we are comfortable with.

    As for those "scared off" by tales of botulism, that's nothing I feel any guilt about. With a little initiative they could figure out the odds for themselves. There's no dearth of resources for learning the elemental principles of safe food preservation.

    I come from a farming/largely-self-sufficient family, and grew up surrounded by Mennonite neighbors, so canning is "in my blood" so to speak, and the same is true of my husband. I know all about how people used to can; I have relatives who follow old processing standards and will till the day they die. So will their grandchildren.

    The difference is that passed down by word-of-mouth were some unalterable rules. Among them was "all vegetables and meats are boiled 20 minutes before eating." The canning was different but so was the manner of cooking. I grew up on a lot of overcooked soggy olive-green beans, but no one got sick from them because any toxins had been destroyed.

    Today there are a lot of people who know just enough to be dangerous in their practices - who follow old standards for canning but wouldn't consider boiling food that long before eating and don't even realize that what you do when you open the jar is as important as how you put the food in.

    I'm not worried about the Amish, the Mennonites, the Dukhobors, the Old Believers, the Mormons, or even those who grew up reading Farm Journal. They may laugh at some of today's prohibitions, but they have their own set of prohibitions they follow just as stringently.

    They aren't my concern. I'm worried about someone who has had no contact with food preservation, who knows nothing of food science and who picks up a recipe on the internet with no capacity for judging what's rational and what's not.

    Carol

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    Good points. I'm off my soapbox :-).

    Off to roast 50 lbs of green New Mexico chili on mesquite, then fermenting 6 weeks, strained, mixed with white wine vinegar, and canned some time in late October.

  • readinglady
    15 years ago

    LOL, I'm off my soapbox, too. One of the things I enjoy about this forum is that we can debate/disagree in good spirit.

    50 pounds! Now that should be a sauce to remember. What kind of yield do you get?

    This is not a good pepper year for us, but it does sound like something fun to do in a future season.

    Carol

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    Carol, 50 lbs will yield 4 - 5 gallons of mash, which, I hope, after the seeds and skin are removed, will yield about 3 gallons of sauce, to which I'll add the vinegar.

    What I do is roast the chili (this smells very, very, good) on the mesquite until it blisters, let it 'sweat' in a covered pot for half an hour, cut the stem off, chop it roughly, and then proceed as if it were cabbage and I were making sauerkraut. I add packaged Kefir starter as the roasting destroys any natural yeasts.

    Every year I make more, and every year I run out. Its pretty good stuff, not that hot, since the seeds are removed. Its taking me all day - I'm now a bit over half way through, and one 3 gal crock is done and on its way.

    I am using 'medium' heat peppers, I do have 10 lbs of 'hot' coming, which I'll roast, seed, and use for stuffing later.

  • digdirt2
    15 years ago

    WOW!! there is gonna be steam comin' off those Colorado mountains come winter!

    Enjoy them while you are young David. One look at all those hot peppers now and this old man's stomach would head for the hills. ;)

    Dave

  • readinglady
    15 years ago

    Thanks for the info, Dave. I posted and then realized I should take a look at that Fermented Mash thread. Got that one downloaded to my computer.

    I have No-o-o experience in this area but it would be an intriguing area to move into. Kefir I can get. I always have sourdough around also.

    I can see I need to start checking into some of the other GW Forums.

    Carol

  • ksrogers
    15 years ago

    Food Saver has NEVER advised anyone to use that system to make any home canning safe. To make home canning safe, a high acid is needed, as well as processing times for foods that contain lower acid, which would need a pressure canning.

    Because I have been canning a very delicate thin skinnned pepperoncini, and using a special vacuum system to remove all the air from these peppers, and also force in all vinegar and salt brine, then fill canning jars with these peppers that have been exposed to the special vacuum (NOT A Food Saver vacuum) my process involves no heat of any kind, but instead, a high acid, and a high amount of vacuum with no chance of any air that would be trapped in the jars. My peppers are safe, and have no chance of being contaminated by any bacterial botulism or any other kind of spoilage. The ONLY think I used the vacuum process for is a specific pepper type, with no added water, only full strength 5% vinegar and pickling salt as the brine.

  • david52 Zone 6
    15 years ago

    Ken? Wrong thread?

  • readinglady
    15 years ago

    I think I'm the culprit, David. I believe Ken is alluding to my example of unsafe practices: that a friend was under the mistaken assumption he could seal tomatoes using his FoodSaver rather than BWB. As I had said, I did correct him on that before any damage was done.

    We did wander rather far afield on this thread, didn't we?

    Carol

  • ksrogers
    15 years ago

    Yes, that was a post you made about someone wanting to use the vacuum port on a Food Saver to pull a seal. They do sell a device that seals to the glass bead below the threads on caning jars, and it can hold a canning lid inside. Once the vacuum is released, the lid is forced onto the jar and makes a decent seal. I do this with herbs after they are dried. My dill lasted over a year with little loss of flavor. I also have grated parm cheese in the fridge that was done several months ago, and has no sign of any mold.

  • Gary Austin
    last month

    Wine or any alcohol add to food is to release flavors that are not dissolvable by moisture it also helps emulsify fats Alcohol has a lower boiling point than water so it should disapate while cooking leaving only the flavor