wet, mucky yard -- need drainage solutions

16 years ago

hello all -- July in east-central Florida is monsoon season, and we have a drainage problem in our yard that is out of control. the st augustine grass looks beautiful, but when you step into the yard you *squish* into about 2 inches of muck.

we are in the midst of moving the rest of our belongins into this house and need to site a spa in our beautiful swamp -- :)

so, i'm wondering if anyone has experience with "drying-up a mucky yard." where do we start? do we need to re-grade, bringing in more topsoil? is there a drainage solution?

my thought on the spa is to prepare the site as if we were going to lay flagstone or pavers -- remove the soil, back-fill with sand, apply a layer of river pebbles and use a pre-fab spa pad on top of that in order to get the spa site on higher ground. the plan is to then build our deck around the spa.

any suggestions? any similar experiences?

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

cycadjungle
16 years ago
We've had to design drainage systems for golf courses that were in real swamps a long time ago. Doing it in a lawn is easy, but I would have many questions. Are you only wanting to work with this small area around the new spa, or are you trying to drain an entire yard? If so, what size is this yard, and is there any elevation change on this spot? Preferably the back of the back yard would be 6 inches lower than the front of the same yard. There are ways to have under grounds drains, but they have to go somewhere. If you can't drain water somewhere else, the next way would be going up with the sand like you mention.
goldenpond
16 years ago
I had to have my yard proffesionally graded but I still have standing water in plenty of spots.A friend of ours used a different method successfully. He used post hole diggers and scooped about three foot out and filled in with gravel . He did lots of these all over his wet spot area.I am trying that next!
Related Discussions
need a solution to a garden path drainage problem?
Q
Comments (3)
Forgive me if I'm telling you things you already know, but I'll mention it for others, if not for you. Erosion is caused by two things - volume and speed.Anything you can do to reduce either one reduces erosion. The lawn is good because it has a lot of blades that the water has to go around which slows it down and also allows the soil to absorb some (both reducing speed and volume). Also, slope translates to speed. Longer slopes translate into increasing speed. Anything you can do to disperse water rather than concentrating it is reducing volume. Sometimes we combine drainage so that we deal with it in fewer places. But sometimes it is not a good idea because you create a big problem instead of several smaller and easier to deal with problems. Since you mentioned that the path is a convenient way to divert water, it makes me think that it is intercepting water that might be moving across the lawn and concentrating it (making a bigger volume) more or less in a channel that is the path. If it goes downhill on a steady slope, water will build up speed and erode. Interupting the slope with a step every once in a while will flatten the grades between the steps, thus slowing down the water. If the path has a cross slope, the step can divert the water off of the path at that point removing it from joining up with the water that the path is accepting between that and the next step. You may have seen this technique on hiking trails just using logs. Even if the water has to pass over the step, it will be reaching the edge of the step with very little speed. although dropping over the edged of a step will add speed to the water, it has ery little time to accelerate and lands on another slow slope. It never builds momentum. Another good technique is to privide better drainage closer to the source. It seems that you hinted that the driveway may be the biggest source of runoff. I will assume that the water is not channeled in a paved swale that concentrates it, but rather drifts off onto the lawn all along its path. In that case, a narrow deep trench filled with larger stone can hold some volume and provide side and bottom area for the soil to absorb some of it. I would not continue such a trench where the driveway slopes a lot as water would rush along the trench. A retention swale that holds volume and traps it untill the soil absorbs it is an option, but most people don't like to have a puddle or wet area. Some have the space for it and don't mind. Another thing is a detention swale that captures the volume and holds it temporarily by having it drain out in a limited manner such as making the swale drain out of a small pipe that can only handle so much water. It detains the water only to let it go on its way in a controlled release. Compaction of your stone in the path is not really much of a problem for water erosion. Smaller surface stone will wash with less force than larger surface stone. Stone in swales is often refered to as "energy dissipation" material where it takes the force of fast concentrated water coming off of a pavement or from a pipe. It takes the impact and slows the water down in the initial portion of the swale. The slope of the swale will then take over in managing the speed of the water and the stone is no longer necessary. Hopefully, this will give you some insight to help you analyze what is happening on your site and some different ideas on what might be options for your specific situations.
...See More
Help! Poor drainage in L.A. yard - to auger, till or other?
Q
Comments (9)
Thanks for the responses. To Kimmsr: I may have been unclear as to the drainage time. None of the holes that I dug were drained after 60 miinutes. The test involves filling the holes twice, and I guess the second time is more important (as the first filling of the soil eliminates to bias from the surrounding soil being dry and gives a "truer" indication of drainage). On the first filling, some of the holes were down to an inch of water after about 60 minutes, but that last inch wasn't really budging, so I just did a second fill at that time and waited another hour, at which point the holes all had MORE than an inch of water in them after 60 min. (but were less than half full). The County guide-book I'm using basically says if it's taking over 60 minutes to drain, you have a problem and need to look into augering or tilling, so I did not keep timing to see how long over 60 min. the holes took to drain. Since I'm taking this info from my LA County planting guide-book, I am reluctant to second-guess or ignore it. Hmmm...maybe the rate of perculation varies by area and is "naturally" supposed to be faster in my area, and that is needed for the Guide's recommended plant list, which is why they want 12" per hour or less for drainage? (I'm guessing.) I would also note that the water seemed to go down reasonably quickly at first, but then slowed considerably as the water got below the halfway point in the holes, which I gess means there's reasonable side-ways drainage from the 6" mark and up, and it is below that that the walls and floor of the hole were more like a bowl than a strainer (or more like a brick than sponge). Basically, for all I, it would take over 3 hours or over 6 hours, or who knows, to wait till the holes were totally empty, so I'm not really sure how bad my drainage problem is. To Ken_Adrian: You suggest getting my County Extension's "guide," but I'm pretty sure that's what I'm using, and what I linked to above. Did you look at that guide, and is it NOT the same thing? Note, with budget cuts and a big city and stuff, it's nearly impossible to get a County person on the phone in Los Angeles, at least when I've called to talk about other stuff, like permits and tree trimming and stuff, so I'm not real confident in my ability to find some one in the County to pick their brain my questions... to Toxcrusadr: Thanks for that reply, I learned some stuff. It sounds like I can till and then use lasagna method without fear of grass sprouting everywhere. If we did til, then add the lasagna layers, we'd then be walking over the soil to some extent to do our planting (cutting through all the layers and planting in the "real" soil that the grass is in, as I understand it), so I am a bit concerned this would cause compaction at least in some areas, and even if we till the soil when it's not wet, the lasagna method calls for wetting down the various layers as you add them, so I'm still not sure if this approach would lead to compaction problem. Maybe my biggest concern, though, is that the tiller I saw for rent at Home Depot looks like it'll only go maybe 6-8 inches deep, whereas the 1-man power auger they rent will go 16 inches deep, maybe more. If I've got a compaction problem below the 8 inch depth, I am wondering if tilling will help that issue at all? Lastly, there's a suggestion that the lasagna method, standing alone, should fix a drainage / compaction problem organically, as the right mixture of ingredients in the soil will lead to thriving organism or micro-organism or whatever, that naturally keep drainage good. (Sort of like imagining if you cultivate worms in your yard, and they will dig holes as they move through the earth creating a healthy amount of porousness and drainage for the soil, but on a bigger level since I'm sure the healthy soil has a lot of living stuff going on apart from worms.) If my image/analogy is correct, and the lasagna method -- done right -- will ultimately fix the drainage issue, do I really need to do anything? It would be nice if the answer is "no," EXCEPT for the fact that the County Guide I'm following SAYS to do augering or tilling before Lasagna if the drainage is slower than 60 min for a 12 inch hole. My main concern with doing the lasagna method without improving drainage is that, if water does not drain fast enough from the lasagna layers, will that sabotage the whole lasagna process? Ken
...See More
good trees for wet area of yard
Q
Comments (17)
I have the same situation in a low area -- occasional standing water, but rarely in the warm season. A high water table always accept during the driest periods. All trees there do quite well -- oaks, hybrid chestnut, hazelnut, tuliptree, umbrella magnolia, fringe tree, pond pine, shellbark hickory, pond cypress. As long as the soil dries out somewhat during the growing season, it's not much of an issue. Trees will just be more shallow rooted.
...See More
Need help with wet yard ideas
Q
Comments (3)
Since the caption on the photo says that it is a new home, I would suggest that you just live with it for a year to see what it actually does and how wet it is for how long. In spring, melted snow combined with rain and in some areas some frost in the ground as well as your soil texture will make for damp spots that may dry out fairly quickly once the melt has seeped into the ground and the plants get leaves and begin using water. You may also find that there are native plants there already that are perennial that die back to the ground in winter. Once you have a handle on what it actually looks like over the course of this early spring and your growing season then you can start to think about what if anything you want to do with it. For this season: - get a soil test done for texture, pH, and nutrients so that you have some idea of what your soil is like. This will influence what plants might be happy there eventually. - Find out what zone you are in. Again, this will help determine what plants might be happy where you are. http://www.plantmaps.com/interactive-michigan-2012-usda-plant-zone-hardiness-map.php - Take a photo once a week of this spot. That way you will have a record of how it changes over the course of the year, and not have to guesstimate. It will tell you not only about moisture, but also light levels and what plants are there currently. Light levels and moisture will also give you an idea of what plants might do well here. - Do research on sources: What places in your area sell plants and of what type; for instance do they have any native plants or only ones bred for garden use? Are there sources of free compost or mulch in your area such as a farm with composted manure or municipal compost or a dump site for the chips generated by the power company when they trim back lines? Does anyone deliver mulch in bulk? - Look for areas that resemble yours in others' yards or in demonstration gardens, nurseries or an arboretum. Take photos of whole plants and close-ups and get them IDed on the Name that Plant forum here on GW if they don't have labels which will give you a palette of plant material that might work well in your setting. - Get the trees there IDed. (Again, good photos of the entire tree and closeup of twigs should be enough to post of the Name that Plant forum.) Some trees are better at sharing space than others. - Think about what you want from this area: a place for kids to build forts, a woodland garden, an expanse of unblemished lawn, etc. - Are there deer and do they often create issues in folks' yards when they eat plants? What, if anything you decide to do with this area will depend on a whole range of factors, not just earliest spring moisture levels, so rather than doing something fast that is doomed to fail, it will help to go into the process with as much information as possible so that you aren't simply throwing away money. It isn't a quick fix type of issue.
...See More
barbcoleus
16 years ago
There are areas in our city where new houses are built much higher than old houses because of new codes so you know what happens. I've always wondered if you could dig a pond and would the water drain into that.
cycadjungle
16 years ago
Goldenpond is talking about one way to do it. It is the "French drain" type os system. You make many holes, or another way is to get a trencher and cut a grid, like 20 foot squares or 50 foot squares, depending on what soils you are dealing with, and then fill with small gravel. In areas where the natural soil is all clay, all it takes is to fill the trenches with sand becasue it drains better than clay. The french drain system works really well when there is a layer of cap rock a couple of feet down so what you are doing is punching holes through the rock layer and then the water has room to penetrate the layer that keeps the water from draining. Each yard has a different situation and some are easy to do and some are more complicated. Barbcoleus, digging a pond and using the material for fill is very common in areas that you are allowed to do that. Sometimes people will ditch the edges of the property and run the ditches to the small pond in the back. Sometimes people will use the underground 4 inch piping to run the water back. Actually, that stuff really isn't all that expensive and works very well. I used to use that a lot, and you can buy that stuff at Home Depot now, but for people who need a lot, I would go to an irrigation supply place and buy it by the 1000 ft lengths and get it super cheap.
goldenpond
16 years ago
I have two ponds AND a creek and the water is suppose to land in it but I STILL have wet areas no wheres near them.
I think it is a part od Paradise we have to just deal with.
thepondprincess
16 years ago
Our problem was runoff from our roof and a vein of clay (hardpan) that runs on both sides of our house. My husband first stopped irrigating those areas (duh), then dug a trench from the bottom of the gutters to the back yard where we have very sandy soil. He dug a dry well, lined it with landscape fabric, put gravel in the bottom of it, and connected black plastic corrugated piping from the end of the gutters to the drywell. We put a big concrete stepping stone over the top of the drywell and covered it with mulch. I filled the area with plants, it looked nice and I was hopeful that we had solved the problem. We hadn't. The drywell wasn't big enough and overflowed when we had torrential downpours, which is throughout most of the summer. Now, we have created a dry creek bed instead of using the dry well, using the same corrugated pipe and its old location. It works beautifully! I placed some large rocks over the top of the corrugated pipes, put smaller rocks on the sides and stones in the bottom. I scattered some annuals about and it looks good.

Best of luck to you!
jupiterplants
16 years ago
We have the same problem. When we first bought our lot in 1984 the houses were built up on a pad , but everybody kept the perimeter of the lot " virgin " .

During heavy rains our driveways and the area around the house was high and dry with a 10-15 foot circle of water around the boundary line . But it always drained fast.

As new people moved in, the house pads were raised from 22 1/2 feet above sea level to now 25 1/2 feet. People also started to fill in the lots to the property line.

After the 04 / 05 storm season our so call "native" perimeter was a twisted mess , leaving us expose to the road traffic for the first time. I didn`t even have curtains in my house. At one time I had hundreds of little pink sun dews growing. They have been washed out !

We bought a kaboda tractor and we remove the downed trees ( took down 65 ) . Some of the pines were twisted like a straw. We removed the tap roots, which seems to really help the water to drain.

When we dug our pond in 1984 there was a layer of hard pan , about 4 - 6 foot down. Under that there was the whitest sugar sand you ever saw. By removing the pines tap roots it like punching a hole for the water to drain.

I just accept that we will hold water on parts of our lot after a rain. I feel grateful that I have as much useable land as I do.

wet, mucky yard -- need drainage solutions

Comments (7)

cycadjungle

goldenpond

Related Discussions

barbcoleus

cycadjungle

goldenpond

thepondprincess

jupiterplants

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US