First, I never recommend putting 2 plants into the same pot. One will always outcompete the other for space, food and water.

Second, just how big is 'decent size'? Both basil and parsley can really get to a 'decent size', which is always bigger than you'd think!

Third. I've never seen aphids attack either basil or parsley, but in the gardening world, anything is possible. Just hose them off. You could plant some garlic chives near your tomatoes - it will attract the aphids away from the tomatoes.

Never, never give up! With luck, some passing ladybugs will decide to take up residence, and they'll deal with the aphids. If they don't, a spray with garlic spray should keep the numbers of aphids down.

As for harvesting, there is no golden rule. Just pick stems of either parsley or basil, always taking no more than one-third of total growth at one time, and waiting for the plant to regenerate before harvesting again. This means that you can harvest your herbs at any time there is enough growth on them to be useful. With both plants, harvesting will encourage more growth.

With regard to watering, use the Finger Test. Poke your finger as far as it will go into the soil. If the tip of your finger feels cool and moist, there's no need to water. With potting mix, never let it dry out completely, or it will become water-repellent. One good, deep watering once a week is better for your plants than a daily, light watering. Just make sure the excess water can drain away quickly. Don't let the roots sit in mud or a puddle, ever. The soil should never become soggy - it should be just slightly moist. That doesn't mean the surface - it means all the way through. Up-end the pot, and remove it. If the soil at the bottom of the root-ball is very wet, you're overwatering.

Oh I'm so excited that there is help!!

Thank You very much daisyduckworth, As to answer how decent of a size I planted them in -

I planted each plant 1 Basil & 1 Parsley plant in their own 9 inch deep 10 inch wide container - and thought if they took well I can transfer them in to a 14 inch deep 16 inch wide pot.

But back to the bugs -Do You think I can really get rid of them? I moved both the pots of the parsely plant and the basil plant away from the tomato plants. I really don't like crawling things. They do seem to be doing damage to the tomato plants - what should I look for as to know whether to just not eat the fruit and let the bugs win?

Thank You
shiney

Unless they are in plague proportions, aphids don't usually do much harm. If you want to be a gardener, you'll have to get used to bugs - there are good ones as well as bad ones, and you need to have bugs around. They have jobs to do in your garden.

Check with your local garden supplier about commercial products to get rid of aphids, if they worry you that much. You might need to check if you have lots of ants, too. Ants actually 'farm' aphids to feed off a sweet secretion from the aphids, so where there is one, there is usually the other. Another thing you can do is to remove an infested section from your tomato plants, and take that (in a jar, with bugs attached!) to the garden centre or nursery, to have the bugs identified. That way you'll at least come home with the right product for getting rid of the bugs. Ask for environmentally-friendly treatments, of course!

Meantime, here are some home treatments for aphids:

Trap aphids in a bowl of detergent containing a few drops of yellow food colouring in it. Aphids are attracted to yellow, and they will land in the dish and drown.
OR
Boil 1kg rhubarb leaves in 4 litres of water for an hour. Strain and mix in 1 tablespoon liquid soap into the water. Use immediately, and do not store leftovers.
OR
Mix a capful of eucalyptus disinfectant in a litre of water and use as a spray.
OR
Spray with straight soapy water.
OR
Mix 1 tablespoon liquid soap with one cup of vegetable oil. (this mix can be stored for some time). Mix 1 tablespoon of the mixture into 1 litre of water and use as a spray. [This is a very good method.]
OR
Add 2 generous handfuls of birdÂs eye chillies to 1 litre water, and process in a food processor for several minutes. Strain. Add 1 litre water and a little liquid soap or dishwashing liquid to the liquid. Mix and use as a spray.

A 14" pot is quite small for a basil, but if your climate is fairly mild, it should do, as basil needs HOT heat to reach optimum size. You'll soon know.

Be careful transplanting the parsley. It has a long tap-root, and plants with tap-roots really resent being moved around. Parsley will often show its disapproval by bolting to seed after transplanting. If it's still quite young, you might be lucky, but be prepared.

All of your concerns have been answered here, so I will not repeat. For me, all plants are out in a garden in the soil mother nature has given us.

as has already been said you can just squirt the aphids off or squish them with your fingers. have you been using any artificial fertiliser on the plants? because aphids love overfertilised plants as they put out lots of nice soft green growth. they wont damage the tomato fruits though, they are only interested in eating the foliage. they may target the basil and parsley if they have been overfertilised but I never get them on mine.

bugs are not so bad, the more you learn about them, the less they will bother you. aphids will only do damage if they are in large amounts, some plants attract them more than others but if there are only a few, just hose them off or squish them. they also provide food for other insects like ladybirds.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing by backing off on the water, basil and parsley are quite drought tolerant but they dont like overwatering. what does the "fungus" look like on your tomatoes?

Safer brand offers neem oil as a spray. Its mixed with water and works very well on aphids. Overnight results are not uncommon.

Posted by ksrogers EasternMass Z6 (My Page) on Sun, Jun 15, 08 at 15:14

All of your concerns have been answered here, so I will not repeat. For me, all plants are out in a garden in the soil mother nature has given us.
*********************************************************

Sorry ksrogers But being a city girl, that has moved to the suburb Of Nassau county in the New York Metropolitan Area east of New York City, with not much property at all and the little property that I do have is 80% brick pavers, cerement and cedar wood deck. Leaving me a small patch of lawn in front of my home and 2 small flower beds.

And though I would Love to have more areas with soil to plant I'm limited. But I still thought I'd give it a shot.

Hi trancegemini -
Thank you for your interest.
Between your post and Mrs.D's I've picked up on a few things that I didn't think much of!

Like I have the pots sitting on the pavers which are two different colors and one color being a goldish yellow & the other being a brown with a goldish tint, Mrs.D did say Yellow food coloring right????

I also noticed that there where 3 spots where ants pushed up between the pavers, cause I actually see the sand that was used to fill in the hair line space between the pavers pushed up and the ant hole. But it's not right next to the pots but with - in 3-4 feet of the pots.

And this is the first time I've seen this with the ants coming through. This makes my third summer, I've also been seeing a lot of lady bugs, Well I don't know what a lot is considered but I see them around every time I'm out there playing around pulling weeds watering I see them by the flowers by the tomatoes. They are there,

I did take a few leaves to my local nursery, and she gave a green product, My son picked off all the brown dead leaves I sprayed and see a difference.

Plus we had mad pouring rain Saturday and tonight so that is good right?? The rain was unbelievable pouring it had to knock some off...

And i want to thank you for the laugh you gave me when you said to squish them with my fingers.
Ha ha ha ha - I'd ran before I'd squish. LOL

ha! no they wont bite, put on some gardening gloves if you like and squish the little buggers. the young ladybird larvae do feed on aphids so if they are active on the plants, dont spray anything (organic or otherwise) or you could kill the good guys.

are there ants on the tomato plants milling about? when you get an outbreak of aphids, you'll often also get the ants and this why. aphids secrete honeydew, it's sticky and sweet and the ants love it, so the ants farm them, they move them about and protect them like miniature cattle :) so once you get rid of the aphids, the ants will leave as well. Im wondering if the fungus was sooty mould, because it grows on that sticky honeydew from the aphids. it's black and mouldy looking and to get rid of it, you can just wash it off, but it's hard to say from here because tomatoes do get their own fungal diseases which have nothing to do with aphids so you may have had one of those.

so go on get out there and squish LOL

I'm squeamish about squishing, too. The answer is gloves!

There is also a beetle that looks like a lady bug, but isn't. It has something to do with the black spots. These tend to nest in narrow spaces, and will sometimes enter inside in fall. It may be that the lady beetles (if they are) have been released by someone nearby. Here, I have released green lacewings, tricogamma, praying mantis, and lady beetles. I will not do the mantis anymore as they love to perch on the flower tops of basil and catch and eat honey bees.

OH! I'm loving this!! :-) Is it ok to post a picture right here cause I could do that? Or if you could explain how to go about I can do it.

Ok let me describe everything -

No the ants aren't on the tomato plants but they are 3 spots where the sand is pushed up and they are going in and out not far with the last pile closer then the other 2 spots. However I keep moving the plants basically in the same area but back & forth maybe 2 feet to the left. just following the sun type of thing. I don't know if that makes a difference. but There's NO ants on the plants - I have noticed flies!!! Not overwhelming but there's always a fly or two on the leaves, or on the pot itself, but I would say there is always a fly around.

so I have cherry tomato and what's called patio tomato cause they grow tighter and where better to grow in a containers.

it started with the bottom leaves, turning yellow and then a brown spot started appear, so after a week with less water(I over water everything) it wasn't getting better - Fruit is forming and so taking some leaves to the nursery I was told it was fungus...
she gives me K+ neem insecticide - fungicide. I gave it a few sprays but not knowing what I'm spraying I did it very light where things looked good and towards the bottom just a little more then what I sprayed at the top. Like i said I didn't go heavy at all
( OH There weren't lady bugs around then) And when watering I watered where I didn't wet the leaves.

However with in we've been having rain - and i would try to keep them where the leaves wouldn't get too wet - but nature is nature.
Anyway now i noticed the plants are still looking ill. But from under the leaf all brown and curling and NOW the tomato plant next to it is looking ill - i separated the pot - so they weren't up next to each other and give the one plant that started this mess another round of spray... and lightly doing the other plant
We had more rain - and I'm told the water washes the spray off. within a few day later I start to see lady bugs and as of this morning besides the black specks on the stems they are looking better.

now here's a question for you ladies.

do the bugs make like black spots on the stems? Or could that be the fungus as you where asking

you're actually doing all the right things shinebrite. the fungus sounds like tomato early blight so that's nothing to do with the aphids, it's a common tomato fungus. you need to move that infected plant as far as possible away from your other plants because it will spread. also, if you can get some straw you can mulch those pots with it, you can't do anything about the rain but when you water you have to keep the water off the leaves as much as possible and dont splash up the soil because that will just make the fungus spores spread. any type of straw is good, hay, lucerne, pea straw whatever you can get (if you cant get it at a garden centre, try a pet store because they probably sell some as pet bedding). that will help keep the spores from spreading and stop any splash up from the soil. also, try to put your tomatoes in different areas instead of together because that will make it much harder for tomato diseases to jump from one plant to the other.

Ive never heard of neem being used for early blight, but I do know people who've had great success with it for powdery mildew so it may work on tomato fungus as well, and the K will make the leaf surface more alkaline which does make it harder for fungal disease. you did the right thing by removing the infected leaves too, you may not be able to cure it, but you could still get a decent harvest before the plant gives up if you can keep the blight under control for long enough.

From what you've said about the ants, they are nesting under the paving which is pretty typical of ants. I have lots of paving and they do it here too. the rain will help with that to flush out their nests. they may also be nesting up in the bottom of your pots or underneath so just check if you see them going into the drainage holes or if they are nesting under the pots when you move them (that just means the soil in the pots is a bit dry down the bottom).

I think your fungal problems are just being caused by warm rainy weather, it's perfect for fungal disease but keep on with the spray - with early blight you will have to spray no matter what, you cant treat it any other way unfortunately if you want to save that plant and it does sound as though the spray is working so I would keep going with it.

if you want to post a photo, just go to photobucket (click on link below) and open up a free account, upload your pictures from your computer and then copy and paste the url (photobucket will list this under the photo after you upload it there) and paste it into a post here. give it a try and if it doesnt work we can help you with it. :)

Here is a link that might be useful: photobucket

I had popor results with neem applied to tomatoes. My plants would get black leaves near the soil and it would infect the whole plant very quickly. It starts out as septoria leaf spot and this consumes the leaves. I sprayed the Serenade product on the tomatoes last year and it was a very good way to reduce the diseases. I also had a serious problem with downy and powdery mildew on cukes. The Serenade allowed the plants to still produces even though most of the leaves had aged well beyond their life. I was still picking cukes in late September. When I water the garden its usually by soaker hoses, unless its really extremely hot and dry, and then I will use a hose. Also, this year I will be spraying foiliar sprays of kelp concentrate.

OK here's some pictures - Also I just moved the post and I saw like three ants running away...

and when i first googled my problem and looked at pictures of diseased tomato plant leaves - I thought it was blight...I've been hit with both the bugs and the blight! my neighbor has been growing summer veggies forever - he saw the bugs - that's how I know i had them.

http://s100.photobucket.com/albums/m23/shinebrite39/?action=view¤t=DSC01382.jpg

i have photobucket - but the picture doesn't come up here -

The Photo Bucket picture will come up provided you use the proper link. Firt off, you need to apply for a free account. You MUST send (download) your photos to the photobucket web site FIRST, then copy the photobucket links in your posted messages, the link IMG info from the THIRD box down (HTML) below the picture.
{{gwi:883995}}

This is a picture of my wild onion patch, which grows all winter. Now, its almost all gone as it sets bulbils at the tips of stiff stalks. In the fall it starts to grow again. I use these as winter chives.

very interesting -

Ok something was going on with photobucket and i couldn't get in - I'm in now -

{{gwi:899252}}

{{gwi:899254}}

{{gwi:899256}}
{{gwi:899257}}

{{gwi:899259}}

{{gwi:899260}}

{{gwi:899262}}

{{gwi:899263}}

{{gwi:899264}}

that last tomato photo really looks like early blight to me so you'll need to keep up with the spray. do you think it's helping? try and spray the top and bottom of the leaves every 3 weeks and if you can spray when there's no rain coming that will be better, the longer the spray stays on the leaves the better it will work. the neem in the spray will also take care of the aphids. I would definitely get some straw and mulch them though, that will help keep it under control as well as separating the plants. the trouble with blight is that the leaves usually fall off and that makes it hard for the plants to produce enough energy to put out a good crop, so it's really just a case of trying to control it so the plant can get a crop going, if they give up and just decline then pull up the plants and throw them away.

your parsley and basil look fine to me, the parsley just has a couple of dried up leaves on it by the look of the photo. get some fish emulsion and use that to fertilise your parsley and basil during the growing season, give them a feed with it every few weeks and that's all they need.

tomato blight is just one of those things you have to deal with when growing them, it is so common but good air flow and keeping the leaves dry is the best way to prevent it, but it's not always possible. let us know how the neem + k is working because Ive never heard of that combination and it sounds really interesting.

Basil leaves are curling and this is an indicaton of a bit too much watering. The tomato leaves had the start of septoria leaf spot and and once it takes hold the plant is doomed. Never plant tomatoes in the same spot as the diseases can create more issues with the eventual blight that comes from the soil. I typically relocate my tomato plants every year as well as my peppers. The Serenade product does help quite a lot to reduce tomato blight, but must be sprayed early and done several times. I avoid watering the plants as a spray, and instead use soaker hoses to reduce water on the leaves. Neem didn't seem to do as much with the tomato problems. This year, I have only 10 tomato plants, and these are in a location where tomatoes have not been in for about 5 years. Use some care when mixing products. Neem is fine when mixed with most other things, but if you add the recommended dosage of neem AND another product, in that same amount of water, your increasing the overall strength, which can harm some leaves.

So Like next year I shouldn't use the pots that i have the tomato's in this year?

No, unless the pots are sterilized with water and bleach. You need to remove all the soil in the pots and scrub the insides and rim with a stiff brush and bleach and water, then allow them to air dry. If the pots are clay based, two washings are required. If plastic, just one good wash and rinse will get rid of most pathogens. Never reuse any potting soil either. If at all possible, the tomatoes do much better in really big pots or planted directly in the garden soil. There are many fertilizers that can also be used on tomatoes, both in the soil as well as foliar sprays. Do not use regular outdoor soil in any pots, as that can't remain as stable as if it were left in the ground.

thanks so much -
I really do wish I had more dirt - Maybe if we rip out the pool one day I will -

so that I have a better understanding - this problem comes from the dirt?? Cause I thought like a bought a good product for a healthier way of growing the herbs & tomato's Buying
Miracle-Gro® Organic Choice® Garden Soil.

At one point I was starting to think this all came from buying the plants at home depot that they must have had diseased plants and didn't know it -

what should I do with the dirt? where should I put it?

I now have the tomato plants about maybe 3 feet apart and under the over hang of the house to block them from getting too wet - it looks like rain again - And we have been getting down pours
And in those pictures that is both tomato plants so it did spread

shinebrite, it doesnt come from the dirt, but the spores do get into the soil so they keep reinfecting the plant and nearby tomato plants. you can spread the used soil around your flower garden well away from your tomato growing area, or you could grow something completely different in those pots, like lettuce for example

Let the tomatoes have plenty of direct sunlight. The more they have, the more healthy they will be. Suggest that you first spray all the tomato foliage with Serenade. Its a great product and if you apply it twice in two weeks it should slow down the disease. I also like using a kelp concentrate as a foliar spray, but you need to stop, or at least slow down the current fungal problems. Copper sulfate can work a little as can a few other fungicides, but Serenade seems to work very well here, and I even applied it a little heavier than normal, on my cukes and they were not dieing due to all the white mildew thats usually on the leaves. Miracle Grow soils do have chemicals in them. I have never seen wireworm damages, until I bought some bags of composted manure at a local Home Depot. The bags appeared to be well aged, but wireworms destroyed most of my potato crop that year. I never reused the soil and just spread it around the garden.

Hello - Ladies(Oh My I don't know if yous are?)Sorry if not.
I just wanted to say - Things are looking pretty GOOD!!!

I pruned the tomato plants really good again today, There's NO bugs!!!

The only thing is KSR I couldn't find that Serenade product when I was out even had My husband look for the product at Ace Hardware when he was there - NOPE not there either.

But he brought me home
Bonide Tomato & Veggie,3 in 1
Incerticide, Fungicide & Miteicide. So I used it since I had just finshed cleaning them up and wanted to get something on them cause it wasn't going to rain & I was done with the Keen oil stuff.

I gave them a good spray & better positioned them under the houses over hang so they will stay the driest. It's basically all day sun from morning till 4:00 pm and then I can always move them up for another 1 of sun.
I watered them by hand so i wouldn't splash the leaves or the dirt, if I placed cedarwood chips is that the mulch You speak about using? Cause I have some

But They are looking good really good to me - The Cherry tomato doesn't have any foliage towards the bottom and the tomatoes are exposed but they are full size so when ever they are red I'll pick them.

I don't see and flowers on any of the other leaves but I'll just wait it out & see what happens,

Thanks a million
You both were so helpful
Oh and Mrs. D too
shiney

Did a web SEARCH and found the following site as the first hit regarding SERENADE-
http://www.serenadegarden.com/howto/FAQ.html

Even on eBAY can you find this product. http://cgi.ebay.com/Serenade-Organic-Garden-Disease-Control-Spray-32-oz-RTU_W0QQitemZ320264801834QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806191277r7250 Most 'hardware' stores cater to people who use common (and mostly non organic based) chemicals in a garden, and would not sell such ORGANIC BASED products, so you would probably never see this there, unless another cusomer asked for it and they ordered it special. To find such products, you would have to locate sources that sell ALTERNATIVE products for ORGANIC control. The internet is obviously quite powerful in giving many choices of sources. Bt, is a good example as is Neem. Neither might not be found in many hardware stores. Hardware stores (True Value, ACE, etc.) carry canning jars. BIGGER hardware stores ike Home Depot and Lowes, do not. Its a matter of popularity too. Most home gardeners may not even bother with trying to be organic when they grow things. Here, I spend extra time and money on organic alternatives to harsh chemicals. Herbs are no different. I wouldn't want to add a chemical base like Miracle Grow to herbs, or spray them with nasty refined chemicals. One place that I DO know that carries MANY organic products is Peaceful Valley and even though they are far away on the west coast, I still buy quite a lot from them. Needless to say , if I could find ALL the organic products in a LOCAL garden shop, I would become their best customer!