Sara, You might try posting in the EXCHANGE section of this forum. There is not a lot of traffic there but it is not as likely to be bumped down and buried quickly. Good luck, Kent

I grow Buckeye Belle and it is a dark black red. It is a lot darker red than the picture shown on website. I think it is a fault of the camera in that it cannot capture the true color. I also grow Karl Rosenfeld and it is more of a magenta red than true red. The true vibrant reds in peonies are more likely to be found in hybrids rather than the true lactifloras. There are two peonies that I grow that I think would qualify to be called true reds and these are Alexander Woolcott and Red Charm. Henry Bockstoce is a third one though not as close as AW and RC.

'Don Juan' also points up. But I wouldn't assume this one belongs to any particular group just because it is arching, that is a widely shared mode. Canes that grow up and then bend over later, under the weight of side branches is a more or less general behavior among roses that are not ~dwarf, stubby (bedding) types.

Kathleen, I always love your sense of humor--and you truly are multi-talented! What neat placemats, I love those. Everything looks very festive, and I really love your plates. Wanda, why have you just been lurking all this time? Can't you tell we are a friendly bunch? Just hop right on in here anytime and join in--we'd love hearing your comments. Luvs