Are hybrids more environmentally sound?

15 years ago

I drive a hybrid. Recently, in my quest for getting used coffee grounds from my local coffee and tea store, I stopped in to support his new business. He is reputed to be very environmentally conscious (gives discounts to those who walk or bike to the store, etc.), and he saw my car. We got into a discussion about hybrids and he told me he didn't think they were environmentally sound because of the danger in creating and disposing of the lithium batteries.

I guess I'm a little confused. Isn't lithium less of an environmental problem than the lead and other stuff in regular car batteries? I haven't really done any research on this, nor really know what I'm talking about, but I left feeling kind of bad. Here I thought I was doing something good, but is it really something worse in the long run? I know the batteries of the first generation hybrids supposedly didn't last that long, but I was under the impression they have now improved a lot. Is that true? What's the truth about hybrids?

Anna

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (4)

the_analyst
15 years ago
Hybrids have a lot of debate for various reasons. I believe the problem with the batteries is people aren't sure how to recycle them and since they are still somewhat new, time will tell.

The other debate is are hybrids worth the cost? Hybrids are expensive cars. Yes, you may save on gas mileage, but for those who can't afford cars over $20,000 they won't be able to pay for a hybrid, even when financed. Also, with the exception of the Prius, the other hybrids on the market do not get much better gas mileage than new non-hybrid cars that cost less. That being said, if someone can afford a hybrid up front, it really doesn't pay off unless the owner plans on keeping the car for a long time. Someone who buys a hybrid and five years later decides he/she wants another car, won't see the cost benefit of the driving a hybrid.

Sarah
alfie_md6
15 years ago
"Will you save money (in the long or short run) by buying a hybrid?" is a different question from "Are hybrids good for the environment?".

We have a diesel which gets 45-50 mpg, and I really don't understand why there isn't more talk of diesels.

Another thing I don't understand is the car ads bragging on the car getting 35 mpg. I bought a car 20 years ago that got 35 mpg, and my husband had a car 30 years ago that got 35 mpg. And they're trying to brag on 35 mpg in 2008?!

None of this answers the question about Prius battery recycling, of course.
Related Discussions
Carbon footprints and environmental responsibility
Q
Comments (57)
tsmith, none of this was news to those sufficiently interested to look into it several years ago. Reading something like the Shock Doctrine by Naomi Wolf might make sense of the revelations you are apparently just now having. Stressbaby, pit greenhouses really seem to be quite a bit more efficient given you have some slope on your property to allow for drainage. I have a design that I have been playing with which takes advantage of the insulative qualities of the soil which should give me quite a bit of the height I need without all of the insulation necessary for knee walls. South facing with a solid north wall and nearly half height knee walls to the east and west (block masonry painted a dark color or faced with dark red recycled brick). Triple glazing for the clear walls and roof (old french doors sandwiched with plexiglass), with automatic passive vents in the south knee wall and roof peak (knee wall vents composed of standard automatic foundation vents and roof vent cupola (same?)). Heated by circulating water pipes in the gravel floor (for dispersion of heat and humidity), underlain by a cement pad with drainage pipes leading down grade. The one factor missing was a good solar hot water heater system, these evacuated solar tubes just sounded like they would be a perfect fit! I could probably bury the hot water storage tanks behind the back wall so that they would have the soil for insulation as well. Plastic oil drums would probably be sufficient for storage. I think that they are a neat idea to play with. Probably pretty cheap too with craigslist recycled materials. The most expensive things would be the pad and the tubes. The only ongoing expense seems like an electric pump, probably hooked up to a thermostat, for water circulation!
...See More
The hurldes of environmentally responsible soil
Q
Comments (11)
Oyyyy! Not again :-) If YOU have objections about using peat, that's fine....avoid it. But your unsustainablity argument - as it applies to the Canadian peat industry - just doesn't hold water. And has been beaten to death. If you are restricted to container gardening, then you should be aware that organic matter - compost, vermicompost, whathaveyou - is not a desirable component. In fact, the less OM, the better and longer lasting the potting soil. There are alternatives to peat - coir, rice hulls, bark fines. Visiting the Container Gardening forum and reading some of the posts specific to potting soil mixes/recipes will prove to be very informative.
...See More
more hippeastrum papilio hybrid photos
Q
Comments (20)
Nice to "meet" you, Orchid Boy! I'm just beginning to collect orchids... and to learn about their many different requirements. I found out a bit too late, I think, that clay pots and Phals do not mix in the chilly northern winters, even indoors! I plan on trying a few other orchid types this spring, to get a feel for what my environment can support... Dendrobiums, Cimbidiums and Epidendrums are the three I'm thinking of, since I already have an Epi that's doing well... or maybe a Catt... I do like your crosses, and where you're going with your breeding program! I got one giant pod from my Exotic Star... it was a self. The more I look at the red/greenish bloom you posted, the more I like it... the coloration of the pollen bearing parts is very unique! (I keep forgetting the terms for the individual parts!)
...See More
Environmental reasons for NOT spraying with chemicals
Q
Comments (58)
Great posts all. These chemicals are so dangerous and so many are so unaware or couldn't care less. Years ago my aunt's cat was diagnosed with sclerosis of the liver disease. She jokingly stated that her cat didn't drink. Her veterinarian asked if the cat went outdoors and told her that the disease probably developed due to exposure to her neighbors lawn that was treated by ChemLawn. My husband works for the utility company. They sprayed Roundup several years ago to kill some weeds at one of their job sights. NOTHING has grown there since. We use no chemicals in our yard but have very few honey bees although we do have lots of bumblebees. My crab apple tree had plenty of spring blossoms but has virtually no fruit due to lack of honeybees. We have no lawn, just flower beds and gravel paths on about 1/4 acre of our 1 acre lot. The rest is woods. I don't know if the lack of bees is due to our being in such a wooded environment or if there is something else going on. We have plenty of dragonflies and butterflies so it may be that honeybees like a more open area rather than dense woods. I bought Bayer 3 in 1 once and never used it when I reasoned that there was no way for the pesticide to distinguish the good bugs from the bad. I now deal with the insect damage if not too severe and try to manually kill the damaging insects when they start to overwhelm the plants. When you look at the seeming explosion of cancers in our generations, 1959, and later it's difficult to not question whether this is due to the fact that we are poisoning our food with this toxic arsenal. I know several women who have had breast cancer but don't recall any of my mother's friends being diagnosed with this disease in their 40's and early 50's. 2 of my 6 grandchildren are mildly autistic, one also suffers severe food allergies, a third was diagnosed with cancer at age 9 1/2. It really makes you wonder if the explosion of allergies, autism and cancer diagnosis is related to the explosive use of such toxic chemicals that contaminate our air, water and food. Massachusetts is considering passing GMO labeling laws so at least the shopper will be aware of whether the food they eat is GMO or not. Monsanto is now making GMO grass seed so soon even grass fed beef will not be safe from contamination. What is scariest though is the apathy and indifference among most people who either don't know or don't care about all of the toxins being introduced to our foods and water supplies. I recently purchased some David Austin roses from a nursery in NY. She recommended both disease and insect spraying. I might spray for disease if absolutely necessary but adamantly refused to spray for insects. Her anecdotal response was that she has plenty of insects around so she really couldn't believe that she was having an impact on the ecosystem. What would happen if we all felt this way? Sharon
...See More
the_analyst
15 years ago
Alfie, you are absolutely right. My point was to say that while yes, hybrids are better for the environment, for many people the reality of affording a hybrids isn't an option. Additionally, hybrids still run on gas to an extent. The idea for people just to go out and buy hybrids is unlikely.

I hope in the future car companies will discover an realistic and affordable way to have cars run on alternative fuels. So far, we have the option of biofuels. Great idea, just not everyone has access to used cooking oil. Then there is the idea of hydrogen powered cars. Another nice idea, yet I can understand why it would take a long time to develop. Scientists for years have been trying to discover a way to combust a hydrogen molecule. It is certainly not an easy task, especially when applying the idea to cars.

Car commercials advertise cars getting 35m/gallon because it is better than many older vehicles. Yes, there are older cars that get that mileage, but there are far more that done not. So for those people who are driving old cars that get 20 miles to the gallon or giant gas guzzling SUVs (which is a whole other topic), it may be appealing.

As far as the hybrid battery, as I said above, it is somewhat realtively new to cars. Just as learning how to develop a car that runs on water, it takes time to learn all of the ins and outs. Hopefully, your battery is more of a blessing than a problem. Anna, don't worry yourself over it. You are doing what you can to help the environment and that is what mattters.

Sarah
lorna-organic
15 years ago
Solar batteries also contain lithium. Lithium is highly poisonous. All types of batteries are now supposed to be treated as hazardous materials. Most folks still throw alkaline batteries into their trash barrels, but we are supposed to be keeping them separate from trash and transporting them to the hazardous waste sites.

The waste management companies need to institute an annual pick-up of hardous materials. That would encourage folks to dispose of these things "properly". Proper or no, they are still going into a dumpsite somewhere.

I bought a whole bunch of solar path lights. Thought I was being really cool in having solar outdoor lights. I was totally shocked when I later found out they contained lithium batteries. It is difficult to fully educate oneself on all aspects of "going green". Forums like this help a lot!

Lorna

Are hybrids more environmentally sound?

Comments (4)

the_analyst

alfie_md6

Related Discussions

the_analyst

lorna-organic

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US