Right now, probably my shade area. I'm going to try a few gallicas there (I found some nice pink/purple/cerise combinations on the antique rose forum). I think they'll look nice with the white peonies and the columbines and pansies. I'm still looking for other plants that will do well (and be non-toxic) so violets are good, but lily of the valley, not so good.

Vinca is a good groundcover in our area, so maybe I'll add some to the sweet woodruff and violets. I'm still looking for bigger perennials, but it's a start :)

CMK- You said part of the problem is your soil, do you have clay? We have all clay out here, so if it's in a sunny area, it turns into cement in no time.

LL, no clay. The soil is kind of sandy though, so water drains out fast. The ground is hard packed and a bit rocky too. This year I started amending the soil with a top-dressing or bagged topsoil, steer manure, and compost (some homemade ;-). It was a lot of work, but hopefully it will work in and both loosen it up and replenish the nutrients.

Sweet Woodruff is very nice, but you really need to watch it when you put it in a nice area, since it can spread fast. It isn't so bad if you want it to take up a lot of space, but not something that should be planted next to very important plants.
CMK

Most difficult for me is the maturation of my own shrub plantngs and trees. While I willed them to get big, they've turned my dead south, sunny - dry, exposure into major shade. Well, I can deal with that, but .....

Then, just to add insult to injury, on the north side, a neighbors BP gone wild is sun-depriving, shriveling/overwhelming everything there. Yikes! I can move/replace stuff just so many times ..... arrrgggghhh!

Just had to vent ..... pulling myself together now .... will address this in the spring. Meanwhile, I'm totally loving the autumn colors and marveling at how we're into mid November already and still no hard freeze, nor is one on the immediate horizon!

Don't care what 'they' say about global warming ..... all I know is that over the past seven years, winter keeps coming later and spring sooner - like they're melding together! Looks like this year my fall clean-up/prune/put the gardens to bed and spring wake up re-mulch are going to be right on top of each other! Oh my ......

zigzag, don't count those chickens yet. Farmer's almanac says we're in for a long cold wet winter here in the SE.

For me, it's the bed under my dining room window. No sun, dry dry dry. Can't dig deep due to water lines. I hate that area. I'm letting camellias and nandinas regrow. I've planted my own gardenias and aucuba, but they're tiny. Next year I might scatter some hosta in there.

So, had this GREAT idea when we moved into this house (13 years ago). I had the ugly, straight, concrete walkway removed and replaced with a pretty, curving, flagstone walk with beds on either side and a new bed between the walk and the house wall near the two doors (front door and kitchen door on perpendicular walls). Visions of a wonderful little spot of green where there used to be only concrete. Did I pay attention to the overhang which prevents rain from reaching 95% of the bed? NO. Did I plan for the fact that the area gets absolutely no sun? NO. Did I realize the chipmunks would turn the area into a mess of collapsing tunnels and entry holes around the edges, killing the plants? NO. So, now I am thinking of turning the dirt back into a stone area with planters that can be moved in and out of sun as needed. Sigh.

CMK, I too have a west facing area of the yard and it too has a very deep shaded part which is the north west corner. In my case, the grounds are constantly wet. This is an area where the water courses through to get to the drain located in the neighbor's yard. It was pretty muddy. I remedied it by first mounding the area with overturned grass sod (which I was disposing anyway) and then I would dig in more compost so the plants I placed there would sit a bit higher and above the flooded area. Second I chose shrubs and small trees that thrive in shade and wet conditions.

In your case, I would suggest using a double digging method. Top dressing the area is just not effective enough. Mostly the moisture will pass through the top layer quickly and disappear in the sandy soil below. So fix the soil first. Second, there are plants that could thrive in dry and shady conditions like coneflowers. Plant a shrub that could provide dappled shade in the afternoon.

By adding more compost over time you will be able to create some moist conditions. To deal with extreme afternoon heat, consider putting in a shrub or to put in a vine to provide shade to understory plants. Since this spot is already in the shade, make it a shade garden.

a good groundcover is ajuga. Although they do spread, it's easily controlled. I used 2 kinds to make a really neat carpet of large leafed and thin leafed ajuga.

I agree that sweet woodruff is a spreader, but I love them too and have them in my yard. Still I have the problem of controlling them.

My most difficult area is under a Bradford pear tree. The backyard had 2 of those trees and they still are very healthy and look good all year, so I kept them. The other one has nandina and abelia and does well. But this one had nandina, but one lived, one is dying, becoz I think one area has lousy drainage. I moved the dying one to another spot with better drainage. I've tried heuchera several times in the shade there, hydrangea, no luck. One side of the bed gets evening western sun, so I've had sunny perennials on that side. They don't do well either.
It's just a mishmash of plants and not cohesive. I also have a wildflower bed nearby which gets full sun and there was a strip of grass going thru between the wildflowers and this pear tree, but the grass was often flooded after a rain. So I covered the grass lasagna style and combined the wildflower and pear beds with stepping stones thru the middle leading to another part of the yard. I like the stone path, But...this is not aesthetically pleasing to me, becoz it's 2 totally different kinds of beds and just doesn't go together. So I tried some of the wildflowers on the sunny side of the pear bed, bringing the wildflowers on each side of the path, but no it's just not working. Any suggestions would be so welcome.
To CMK: I literally just threw some seeds over some newspaper and nothing special soil along my garage and it has looked fabulous all season with zinnias and marigolds mainly and a few herbs. Not sure how they would do with too much shade but those should do well with sandy, sunny, hot, and neglect. I don't water, I just leave them alone.
To those who have shade, I have 2 areas with total shade and they stay moist. What thrives there is mahonia, camellia, hostas, wild violets, oakleaf hydrangea, astilbe, hellebores.
laurie

Thanks for the ideas ianna.
I can't plant any shrubs/trees/vines because this bed is right next to the neighbors property- no room to plant big items. Gas meter is over there, so I don't want to block it either.

I haven't amended that particular area (have in other beds). The heavy rain we get runs down from the roof right in that spot and can wash out loose soil. I think I am going to have to experiment a little and find some of those 'do it all' plants that can tolerate such difficult situations. Maybe try some Euphorbia amygdaloides-robbiae, it seems to do well in dryish shade.
Thanks for the ideas though!
CMK

-laurie, thanks for the suggestion. I might have to toss some Calendula and Poppy seed over there next spring and see if they don't add some interest. Calendula are always such wonderful bloomers, no matter where they are placed!
CMK

My most difficult place is an area between the driveway and my house. It should just be trees and grass, but the 'dirt' is just rocky gravel. So, not even grass will grow there. I've thought of putting down good dirt for raised beds, but I don't want to harm the trees. It's too hard to dig - I've tried and I get about 1" down!

DH is tired of trying to get the grass to grow there and has said I could have it - if I could figure out what to put there. It's also a weird space as the driveway curves, almost like a curvy triangle shape. And then, there's the transition to the rest of the lawn where we finally get enough soil for the grass to grow. WAAHHHHH!

-holleygarden, I know how you feel! Driveway gardens are always difficult arn't they? Many years ago I had the 'brilliant' idea of making one on the edge of the gravel driveway against the neighbors chain-link. I did not stop to think that every time a person got out of the car on that side they would smash into and walk on the plants! Nothing special planted there to be sure, but one still doesn't like to see broken plants!

I got tierd of it this past year so I re-did it. I took out he bigger plants (daisy, scabiosa, a few annuals a few other things) and just put in various creeping sedums I had around the yard. I also kept some thyme there and plan to put some Ice Plant there next year.
Now I don't have to worry about plants getting mashed! Sometime down-grading is a good thing.
CMK

I've thought about ice plants there, but have never grown them. Are they evergreen? Like a succulent, right? Do they spread? I'm thinking they may be my only answer to that area (it's actually quite a large area, but at the top of a hill - obviously, a natural gravel hill.

We built on family land, so I always wondered why the woods stopped there. Now I know! What a dummy to build in this spot!

hollegarden, instead of putting in plants, consider putting in smooth river stones to fill in that transition. Anytime there's an awkward space, just filling the area with good looking mulch (in this case stones) will help enhance the space. And if it's possible and the area is sunny, try growing creeping thyme which works in dry areas (and looks great when contrasted with rocks).

-holleygarden, this is my first year with Ice Plants! It is a succulent- it has interesting fleshy foliage. I am not sure about it being evergreen, but I imagine it is. It is a groundcover.

I am surprised I liked it so well since I am not a huge fan of groundcovers in general, succulents, or plants with daisy-like flowers. But this is so cute! The cultivar I have is called 'Mesa Verde', and has pink/peach flowers. There are lots of other colors, hot pink, light pink, purple-pink, white, red, yellow.

Creeping thymes are also very nice.
CMK

Token (responding to your post above), I'm truly not counting those chickens yet - just observing. I think we're long overdue for a hard winter and have the utmost respect for the OFA. It's just hard right now not to be lulled into a false sense of security ...... this past spring, summer and now autumn have been/are perfection imo. Just loving every minute I can!

Btw, Token, how about building a raised garden beneath your problem dining room window area? I've done this with a similar site - corraling the soil and being able to focus the watering has really made a difference. Just a thought.

As for iceplant ..... I fell in love w/it in Southern CA and it was part of my initial landscape install here. It was gorgeous for two years then just literally melted away for no particular reason. I haven't tried to re-plant or revive it - there are many other contenders for the space.

ianna - Thanks! I really hadn't thought 'just mulch' - I always try to think of plants. But I think I could do something with some raised plantings with 'just mulch' around the trees. This will really give me something to play with. Stones are a good idea, but I have a pebbled area across from that and I could never figure out what would go with that without taking away from it.

CMK - thanks for the ice plant info. I may have to give it a try. I've already tried (and killed) creeping thyme.

Great thread - I think I can work on this 'most difficult area', thanks to everyone's help. :)

Hello all,
I guess we all have "difficult areas". I'd like to
think of mine as "possibility areas". Sun lovers
for the hot spots and bog plants for any low areas,
shade plants for low light areas and lots of hard
work for the removal or taming of all the wild
berries and morning glory. I also need to be
careful of what I plant near the fence on the north
side of the property because the neighbors may
tend to reach through the fence and eat newly
planted bushes, flowers or even veggies. Don't
want to cause trouble. I'd like to plant hollyhock.
Any one know if they could be trouble for cattle?
I've posted a link to some pictures of the new
place. Any suggestions would be welcomed.

Brenda

Here is a link that might be useful: http://community.webshots.com/album/575578430PXcgMP?start=12

Any area near our huge, ancient maple trees. The trees are probably as old as the house (over 150 years old) and they just suck up all nutrients. I can't plant anything in a twenty yard radius. It doesn't help that it's also on the north side of the house so plants would need a little more help and instead are getting the life sucked out of them by these maples, which are beautiful but annoying. They also like to drop limbs on our house and cars. I just can't bring myself to cut down a 150+ year old tree!

Brenda- I have horses, not cattle, but there are some plants that are very toxic for them and probably not good for cattle either. You can call your local vet or look on the ASPCA website for more information.

Roses are supposed to be safe (but again, I'd check with the vet to make sure) while azaleas, rhododendrons, oleander, yew, mountain laurel, and many others are highly toxic. I'm not sure about hollyhocks, but climbing roses against the fence might look nice.

You're a nice neighbor to think of this before you plant :)

holleygarden, glad you like the suggestion. You can also add decorative items like a water jar or something antique like a granary stone, or a wagon wheel,, anyway, that sort of thing to help liven up that space. So turn the dismal space into a showcase.\\

newbiebavinfun, I just returned from a trip to NJ (love it) and can understand what you are saying. Sugar maples are plentiful in Ontario too and they do suck up the life of a yard. It's best you keep very light rooted creepers to fill up the space. Unfortunately, not only do these trees grab the nutrients, they also cast a shadow. My suggestions would be much teh same thing I suggested to holleygarden, except that perhaps you should also think of hypertufa gardens and planting these containers with succulents. You might be surprised on how things turn out.

Because of the way my house faces in relationship to the sun....one half of the front yard gets more sun than the other. So the foundation bed near the house in shade always has spaces. I can't grow the same things on each side and make it uniform...so my constant challenge is making it looked balanced and getting things to grow on each side.

newbiehavinfun, I have a silver maple, and although it gives great shade in summer you're right that it's very difficult to grow anything permanently under such trees. It sounds like your situation is that the roots of the trees have intertwined to such an extent that they strangle other plants. I only have one tree so it isn't quite so bad, but I've had best success with:
- dry shade plants, such as hellebore
- bigger container plants have a better root system to compete with the trees.

Here's a hellebore at the foot of my maple. It's 5 yrs old and has done very well. These are the standard kind with greenish-white flowers. The fancier colored hybrids aren't as vigorous and I don't think they could compete. The other plant next to the hellebore is a jade plant, but I don't believe they're for zones lower than 8 or 9. The spiky foliage is bearded iris; the round-leaved trailers/groundcover are common nasturtium that disappear once the soil heats up in summer.
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I have three problem areas. They had plants I've tried that didn't work out for one reason or another, had to be yanked out and started over....several times now, LOL.

Front yard walkway: We're on a double slope-front to back downwards, and also side to side. Great drainage but it makes the view of the house from the street quite lopsided. Trouble is, the plantings on one side grew quite a bit taller than the opposite side! I don't have a good picture of it from the street, but you can see from this front porch shot, how the right-hand side is just about twice the height of the left-hand side. When you view the house from the street, it makes the uphill side of the front look even taller compared to the lower-growing half.
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Moving down the hill, one portion of our side yard is exposed to our neighbor. Houses are very close here, averaging 10' apart. Their house has very few windows on our side - but of course, that was the only place my original plants didn't work out! These new tall shrubs/small trees will hopefully fill those spots in a few years:
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The far part of our backyard is actually quite private for a property smack in the middle of the city. It backs onto a schoolyard and is the lowest point of the lot. That means it is the furthest from my outdoor faucet and thus almost impossible to water. This area is also heavily shaded in summer by a 60' linden and 40' walnut. It's been a real struggle to find plants that will survive cold wet winters and bone-dry summers along with the shade conditions. I've gotten an oleander standard and Tecomaria capensis to survive, with a variegated euonymus and hardenbergia vine trying to get established this winter.
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