JG, "Where does the main stem of that plant go into the ground?" The main stem goes into the ground pretty near the center of the picture I posted. "Do you know what the parents were?" The shrub zinnia's ID code is E13 and its maternal parent was coded C72 and the shrub was planted indoors 22 April 2011. C72 was an echinacea flowered "scabi", as was its maternal parent, C46. The shrub zinnia's male parent must have been some sort of large flowered non-scabious. It's kind of odd that the shrub comes from a long line of scabious specimens. Its main stem and its laterals are all very long -- so long that they can't stand up under their own weight. All of the main stems are lying on the ground unable to support their weight. Most of what you see are the secondary branches emerging from the primary branches. If this thing had a couple more months in which to develop, I suspect that those secondary branches would also collapse onto the ground and throw up long tertiary branches. I am not pleased that the thing can't stand under its own weight, so I remain somewhat skeptical as to how its progeny will prove themselves. But E13 does have a very unique plant form. "With the toothy, scabious dahlia, and shaggy dog type zinnias along with this shrub zinnia, you have lots going!" Grin. And don't forget the Bugle zinnia (E2). I spent nearly an hour today applying Bugle pollen to The Shrub because E13 didn't put out any pollen florets of its own today. This recent toothy bloom had an interesting recurved petal form. It wasn't wilting -- it was just holding its petals that way. It has since straightened out its petals some, but they are still recurved. I am doing a lot of toothy-to-toothy crossing in order to hopefully build up a supply of seeds for a larger toothy planting next year. But I am using some toothy pollen on other breeders, and I have been crossing some non-toothy pollen onto toothies. One toothy has been getting some Bugle pollen. "If you knew someone in the country where it is hot and sunny year round, it would be interesting to transplant that "shrub" and see just how extensive it could get." That would be interesting. I think there is actually at least one zinnia species that is a shrub in the wild. More later. Our nights are getting too cold for comfort. It was 46 last night, with 48 predicted for tonight. There were frost warnings not too far north of here for last night. ZM

My success rate has been so-so. I've got about 20 containers that still haven't germinated at all (about 80% did germinate of the total containers sown). As for my seedlings, my cosmos, mexican daisies and sunflower elfs are growing like gangbusters. As for the rest...not so much. Doesn't surprise me in the least for the perennials I planted out. I assumed they'd take at least a year or two to establish themselves. But I'm surprised at the slow growth rate for the annuals. Stuff like Canterbury Bells, Bells of Ireland, etc. Those are growing INCREDIBLY slow. I've "fertilized" them w/ compost tea but since I refuse to use chemical fertilizers (or chemicals of any kind) in my garden, I'm still just waitin' for them to show some semblance of a growth spurt. At this rate, they won't bloom until Sept.

Unfortunately, I can't help you either, Susan, because my fall buckeye cats have always, including this year, pupated and emerged before cold weather sets in. I've got one late chrsyalis, and I'm keeping it on the porch - I'll see what happens. We're having our first taste of winter/fall now. It got down to 48 last night, and it's supposed to be like that tonight, and then gradually warm up. I'll be leaving the cats in their cages on the porch this winter, because last winter I had quite a few butterflies to emerge before their host plants were making new growth. I've consolidated the many pipevine swallowtail chysalides, so that I've only got four cages out there. I'm covering them all with a sheet at night to keep any excess wind off them, should that occur. If we have abnormally cold weather, like maybe a night below 20 degrees (that happens occasionally, but not in about ?10 years) I'll bring them inside to the unheated guest room. Your buckeye cats may survive - I had some gulf frits cats to overwinter one mild winter. They resumed eating when spring came and the passionvines they were on made new growth - that might happen with your buckeyes, I don't know. I sure hope they survivie! Sherry

Sitting around after stuffing myself . . . lookin' for seed sources. Hey, not all those HPS varieties come in 1,000 seed pkts!!! With enuf squeezing and succession planting, I should be able to try 3 or 4 more varieties next year! Here's a new-to-me herb seed company! Maybe others have seen this before if you've an interest in off-the-beaten-path herbs. Can't say I'll necessarily be ordering from 'em or that I'd choose 'em over Richters but since they offer a wide selection, are located just a few miles from where I grew up in southern Oregon, and HOPING that they do a good job for their customers - - I've put the link below. You should know that I'm always prepared for the seed companies to do-me-dirt but they never really have (and for this I'm very thankful on this Thanksgiving Day). That list I posted on Azura's thread last month of 17 sources in 2007 may be the reason, but I don't think so. Even tho' I've been ordering from some of these companies for decades - many times, individual orders are for $10 or $20. Perhaps, the customer they have in mind when they put some of these things together - is me! I've got a hat that I had made - "Nub Seed Company, I don't see why not!" I tell people that this is the way I think seed companies should operate & it is the opposite of the "Snub Seed Company, I don't see why I should." Anyway, the entire enterprise gives me a good deal of pleasure. I've been involved since I was a kid. digitS' Here is a link that might be useful: Horizon Seed