Be careful not to hang it over your lawn. The seed will be scattered and grow into weeds.

To keep spilled seeds from sprouting, do any of you use Preen or a similar product sprinkled under the feeder?

Okay, one question at a time:

1. It is absolutely untrue that birds who have feeders handy won't continue to eat their natural food. Birds have such a high rate of metabolism that all they do, ALL DAY LONG, is eat. Non-stop. There can never be too much food for a wild bird. And often, the seeds and things some of them prefer are somewhat scarce. In times like those (be it due to seasonal change, fires or floods, or whatever), well stocked birdfeeders are a huge help.

Another point on this topic...most birds who eat grubs and insects don't frequent feeders. They are not usually interested in seeds at all.

2. I don't put anything under my feeders. I don't personally care if the seed sprouts right there. Mark just mows it down with the grass. And sometimes I find things growing there I like, like the wild mustard. However, if you aren't quite as open to that idea as I am,

a) one of the easiest things to do is put a circle of mulch around the feeder to define that area, and just hand pull whatever pops up, or use a quick spray of RoundUp.

b) Another idea is to put a concrete or brick pad under the feeder to limit how many seeds actually make contact with dirt.

c) Sterile seed mixes. You can buy them many places, and you can make your own by microwaving smaller batches of seeds for a minute or two.

3. Types of feeders. You want to have a variety. Different birds have different preferences. A tray feeder will draw the largest numbers and varieties of birds, but are often squirrel magnets, too, so a baffle of some sort is needed on the pole to keep the squirrels from climbing up and helping themselves. You can buy baffles at PetSmart that work quite well. And I am currently experimenting with hanging Slinky toys over the pole, too. So far, it is working wonderfully, and the cost is minimal. $2.00 for a metal Slinky, rather than $20 or so for a baffle.

You will want at least one tube type feeder with short perches for smaller birds. Larger birds (doves, bluejays, grackles) can't sit on them comfortably, which makes them perfect for cardinals, titmice, goldfinches, buntings and the like.

My general philosophy is to have at least 5 or 6 feeders going at all times. Each one is a different type, and they are located all around my garden. Some birds prefer to eat in the wide open center of the yard, some prefer to have a feeder located close to their favorite bushes.

I use different seed mixtures, too. In any feeders that aren't squirrel-proofed, I often use safflower seed, which squirrels don't like. Cardinals and titmice love it, and once in awhile, I see something else trying it out, too.

Black oiler sunflower seeds are the most popular seeds of all with many birds.

Don't be afraid to have plenty of doves on the ground under your feeders. I throw down cracked corn (which is cheap) just for them and the squirrels. Birds attract more birds. When songbirds see a bunch of doves and squirrels on the ground, they are more likely to come check it out to see what they can score for themselves.

And last hint: WATER. Lots of water. You can't have too many birdbaths. They don't have to be big, fancy ones, either. A terra cotta saucer sitting on an upside down pot will work. Even a garbage can lid on the ground will work. Put out water in various places around your yard and keep it fresh & clean. It will pull in birds like a magnet, even the ones who aren't interested in your feeders. A sprinkler running 30 minutes in the afternoons brings everyone to bathe. A mister or dripper over your birdbath (or over a bucket) will even bring tiny parula warblers and others.

That's all I can think of for now, but if you have other questions, just ask. You can email me offlist, too, if you want. I highly encourage you to do this. It's good for the birds, it beautifies your garden, and it's good for the soul!

Good luck!
Marcia

Don't forget a feeder for the hummers as well!

Marcia, I've used the safflower seeds and they do indeed work well since the squirrels don't like them. I've recently seen rats. Do they also avoid the safflower.
Thanks.
Nancy

Vireyafl,

Changing the subject, do you have experience growing Vireyas? I would love to, but I need to get info on growing them in FL, as most seem to like cooler environs.

Marcia,
I was so inspired by your magical garden and your birds that I hauled DH to Target last night and bought 2 new birdfeeders; one is the tube type and one is kind of a modified tube with a platform at the bottom. We also found a tray on sale that will be a good platform feeder once he drills some holes and attaches chain or cords. I have a couple bird baths and feeders out already but now I'm going to reposition most of them so that I can see it all from the patio. If I'm going to open a diner for the birds, I want to be able to see them all. I'll just leave one small feeder and the hypertufa bath by the front door so the neighbors can enjoy the birds too.

I'd like to second Marcia's comments on water. I think having fresh water for the birds is actually a bigger draw in my yard than the feeders. I have 2 birdbaths that I hose out and refill daily. There are birds in them every day. They love the sprinklers too and it's great fun to watch them darting in and out of the spray.

I find that the inexpensive plastic feeders are really easy for the squirrels to chew up and destroy. Look for something a little more industrial strength. One of my feeders is hanging from a tree on about 4 foot of narrow chain. The squirrels don't seem to have the nerve to climb down it. The other feeders are raided regularly despite my efforts to squirrel-proof them.

Seeds sprout under all my feeders. But I don't care. If it's green and I can mow it, I call it lawn.

Maureen

I like your attitude about your lawn. Sounds like mine. I don't care if it sprouts or not, I just cut it down, too.

Squirrels WILL destroy any plastic feeders they can reach. They don't think the seeds come out fast enough, so they eat through to them. That's why baffles (or Slinky toys) are so important for feeders with food they like in them.
I'm on Day Three here with the Great Slinky Experiment, and so far, not one squirrel has even TRIED to go up a pole that has them on it. *Fingers crossed*

Nancy, I can't tell you that you'll never have a rat visit your feeder, but I really don't think they should become a problem. However, if they seem to be bad, I'd just set some traps for them. They usually feed more at night when birds and squirrels are sleeping, so you'd probably be successful.

Marcia

This is the thread that I was thinking of starting but Anna did it for me. I'm planning a new flower bed (DH hasn't got a clue I'm getting ready to do this!)in the big fat middle of the back yard. I want a bird bath in the bed for sure. Marcia you answered my questions about what kind of feeders and seeds. I was impressed with Susan's slinky as a way to keep the squirrels out so I will have to find a couple of those. Thanks for all the information. I can't wait to get started.

They are a problem. I shine a light on it at night and I see 6-8 rats run. They seem to swarm it. It is a squirrel proof feeder that the squirrels can't eat from. Some of the rats look mighty big to me, so I don't know how they do it. I have been taking the feeder in at night, but a) it's a pain to do that, b) it grosses me out to handle the feeder when there have been rats on it. We have neighbor's cats that come in the yard and lots of squirrels, possums, racoons. If I set a trap I may have more than I bargained for and I don't want to hurt the cats. Any other thoughts?
Nancy

Honestly, I have rats regardless because I have fruit trees. They seem more attracted to the grapefruit/oranges than the seed.

Occassionally, I will see one at the feeder, but not often. They really do not eat much - the squirrels depleat the feeders much faster. I don't know..to me, the birds outweigh the ick factor of the rats. You should go for the sqirrel proof feeders that are weight controlled - the rats will not be able to feed from them either due to their weight.

Birdbaths will draw almost more birds than the feeders! Plus, you get the birds that don't eat at feeders too, like Mockingbirds, different types of woodpeckers...heck, I even get the wild parrots! In fact, I love nothing more than emailing photos of "my" wild parrots enjoying themselves at my feeders/birdbath to my northern friends!

I agree with SaintP. For me, the birds outweigh everything else. As for how to deal with rats, I can only see 3 choices: Bring the feeders in at night (wear your garden gloves), put out humane traps (release anything you catch that isn't a rat), or just learn to ignore them. If you don't shine a light on them, maybe you can forget they are there? That's all I know to do.

For myself, there's not a rat or any other animal I can think of that would make me give up feeding birds. And I think there is a good possibility that rats are scampering around your yard at night anyway, with or without the feeders. Maybe your neighbor's cat will catch some of them.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know. Maybe someone else has another idea for you.

Laura, I hope you get your big bed soon, and can start enjoying birdwatching in your own garden. It is so enriching! I can't tell you how many times a day I find myself getting frustrated over something or tired of chores, and I go sit on the porch for a few minutes to watch. It's a wonderful, safe, mood altering experience. But it IS habit forming! ;o)

Marcia

I've stopped feeding my birds recently because of the rats.
Persistant little #@%s. Started with one, soon a whole trail of little ones appeared. They laughed at the greased pole and always found ways to get to the feeder. I'd yell and stomp and they'd run back into the bushes, just to reappear when I'd turn my back.
I haven't seen them since I stopped putting out the seed!
Squirrels too know immediately when I put seed out. And leave none for the birds.
Guess I need to invest in a squirrel proof feeder and a slinky.

Hie thee to the nearest PetSmart and then to a Toys R Us. You MUST enjoy the birds, Tree...they are so wonderful right now!! (Well, they are wonderful ALL of the time, of course, but very visible in their wonderfulness these days!)
;o)

Marcia

I have one feeder that I take down at night because of raccoons - I've even caught Momma teaching her little ones (3 years now) how to get on the feeder! One thing that helped was getting it away from the fence so that can't reach it, so now they stomp all over my new shrubs trying to stretch up! After a week or so, they stop looking for it so I can leave it out for a couple weeks, then back to the same routine. Our house is in the middle of their pathway between their roosting spot and the bayou & river where they fish.

I put a square of concrete under the feeder in the flower bed. That has really cut down the amount of seed germination, and it makes it easier for the ground feeders to get the seed. I'm feeding about a dozen squirrels with the birds, but the squirrels are fun to watch too. I have had some issues with rats, but like saintpfl, they are mainly interested in the fruit - I see more of them in the fruit trees than under the feeders. The advantage to the spilled seed is when the sunflower seeds germinate and bloom in the late spring.

Another helpful thing is having cover nearby for the birds. They are really enjoying the shrubs near the feeder so they have someplace to hide while they're checking their safety zone.

I have the feeders about 10 feet from the birdbaths - the cardinals are pretty consistent in the late evening with getting filled up on seed and then hitting the birdbath before they call it a night. Two of the feeders are hung under the eaves, just outside the office windows. They are over stone mulch and I don't have much sprouting there. When the seed hulls get too deep for me, I bring out the leaf vac and suck them up, then use them in the back of my flower bed along the fence row as mulch. Added benefit is the stray sunflower seed that will bloom.

As for eating bugs, the insectivores (catbirds, jays, grackles, wrens) love the piles of dead leaves under the shrubs - I often see them rooting through there for yummies. When the hooded warbler was here, he was flitting all over the yard after I mowed catching flies and whatnot.

I'm really tickled to see all the interest and input in these threads, and picking up all sorts of new ideas. Birding is a passion of mine almost as great as that of gardening.

Terri

Kate, I missed your post! My "magical garden?" Which one was that???? I must have missed something there, too! I think you are just like Nicki, and you can SEE what it's GOING to be, rather than what it is today, that's all. But I DO have the bird thing happenin' right now, and I'm proud of you for making such good plans to attract them to your own yard. You will never regret it! They are so much fun to watch, and you never know what might show up. The first thing I do in the mornings, even before my cuppa tea, is look out the window to see who's visiting.

Terri, you and I feel the same way about gardeners wanting to learn how to attract birds. A garden without birds and butterflies is only HALF a garden, to my mind. Just about all visiting wild creatures are welcome in my yard. Lots of good suggestions coming from you, and your pictures are positively inspirational! Thanks so much for sharing.

Marcia

I have used the "Slinkly trick" on my feeders to deter squirrels now for about 8 months. Not a squirrel one has beat it. The best part was when I first hung them up and the fuzzy tailed rats tried to climb them! It was comical to see them try to climb and end up back on the ground! I love my feeders and have one hung so when the "boob tube" is on I can watch the birds! Much more entertaining than the usual TV fair. nova

I have 2 new feeders that I placed in the yard where they can be viewed from the patio or my window by the computer. Since the squirrels are plentiful in our area I knew they would be the first visitors to the feeders, so greased each shepherd's hook pole liberally with vaseline. It has been almost as fun to watch them jump on the pole and slide back to the ground as to see who was coming next to dinner.

Since the slinky trick sounds interesting I want to try that now. Do you fasten it at the top and bottom of the pole?

BTW, we have had quite a few visitors to the feeders that we have put up the last 2 days and today I moved 2 bird baths to the same area. A bluejay and woodpecker took a shower in the first 15 minutes.

Thank you everybody who has posted pictures of your wonderful visitors and feeders.

Ginny

Alright, I went to the wild bird store today. Saw a feeder I liked- the squirrel buster plus- anyone have one? Kinda expensive, but the guy was positive no squirrel would be able to get the seed and probably even rats. Well, I guess the expense should be ok, after all, it will be for mother's day and I'd like to think I'm worth it! Also got a FL birding book and guide I'm going to read on my plane ride tomorrow. Also saw owl boxes and wood duck boxes- thinking Christmas here! Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Anna

After 15 months of marriage my husband has given up having any say-so about the yard/gardens. "Whatever makes you happy" is what he says. He's very little help on yard projects but as long as he doesn't get in my way I'm OK with that. (I digress) I told him of my plans to put bed in the middle of the expanse of weeds in the back yard. I need to get some cover for the birds...I'm thinking of at least 1 wax myrtle otherwise there isn't any place for them to duck and hide. I drew the outline of the new bed w/ spray paint but I'm not quite ready to get started. I do want to get a bird bath first and tuck it somewhere (?) for now and move it when the new garden is in place.
I'm really excited and I want everything NOW! I must remember it is the journey I must enjoy.

I have just loved reading everyone's bird stories. I, too, love feeding the wildlife that happens to enjoy my yard as much as I do. Please don't flame me, but I even enjoy feeding the squirrels. I buy corn for them in the hopes they will leave the sunflower seed for the birds but I haven't had much luck in training them. I agree with all of the above posters in that water is a bird magnet. I love it when the robins and sometimes sparrows will all take a bath at once. Water flies everywhere! They just really seem to enjoy themselves.

I have a question for you. Has anyone ever been able to get a red bellied woodpecker to eat from your hand? I am working on that right now and am so close. It's very exciting! The RBW's live in a fallen tree that is just across my fence line in a vacant wooded area. When I go out there and call for them they will actually poke their heads out of the hole and watch me. I hold my hand up with peanuts in the palm and just wait. Pretty soon he swoops down and sits on a nearby shepherds hook and squawks at me. He will fly at me like he is going to land on my hand and at the last second he will veer off and go back to a perch. Soon it will happen I think. I have patience.

Here are a couple of pics. These are when I lived at the beach and the rats were horrible there. They were at the feeders day or night and didn't really have much fear of people at all. But there again, I didn't really mind. As long as they didn't try to come in the house!

This is fun! So glad you are all trying to find ways to have more wildlife in your gardens. A few thoughts.

1. Vaseline on the poles...works until the weather gets too hot, then it gets gloppy, goopy, full of buts, and finally slides right off. (At least, that was my experience.

2. Slinkies are easy to attach. First, open the top ring of the Slinky. It has a little fastener holding the last loop closed. Just push it with a screwdriver or other tool until the last loop opens up. Slide the Slinky over your pole and into the position you want. Slide a hose clamp over the pole, push the final loop of the Slinky through the hose clamp, and tighten the hose clamp against the pole. Let the Slinky hang free at the bottom. The more it wiggles, the less likely they can climb it. Mine haven't even had the nerve to TRY yet. (I'll post a close up tomorrow so you can see just how it works.) For a $2.00 investment, NO SQUIRRELS! Wooohooooo!

3. Anna, you probably don't want to lure owls (or any predatory bird) to your garden if you are trying to feed birds there. It will frighten them away. If you have a large piece of property and can locate the owl box a LONG way away from your feeding station, that would be fine. Otherwise, I'd rethink that one, if I were you. Wood duck boxes are great if you have a pond or lake nearby. Other birds that will nest in boxes include bluebirds, wrens, titmice, great crested flycatchers, woodpeckers and more. Each requires specific dimensions and hole sizes, and specific locations, heights, etc. All of that info can be found online.

4. Tannatonk, as I said in my posts, I always throw down plenty of cracked corn on the ground for the squirrels and doves. But I try to keep the squirrels out of my feeders, and usually my baffles have worked. Now the Slinky is working well, too, SO FAR. I also feed safflower in the feeders that aren't squirrel proofed, as they don't like it.
And no, I have never fed a red-bellied woodpecker by hand. Titmice and some other small birds, yes, but not woodpeckers. Let us know if you succeed! Good luck!

Today, I had about 8 indigo buntings at once. In addition to the four adult males I've been seeing, there were 4 first spring males (immatures), and 1 female. Hmmm...that's NINE, isn't it?

The painted bunting seems to be gone, and I never saw the rose-breasted grosbeak again, but the indigos are so much fun. They fly fast back and forth between the feeders, and often feed on the ground, like a flock of bright blue sparrows.

Marcia

Ginibee, got me interested in the birds again. I got a feeder that is squirrel proof (at Lowes,$20) or so they say. It is tube shaped but a spring loaded cover comes down if there is too much weight of the perch. So we'll see. I love the slinky idea too.

I wanted to meantion that it might not be rats, but voles that you are seeing. We have trapped several along with the squirrels. DH hates squirrels. We live trap them and animal conrtol takes them away. One made a nest in a palm and ate out the heart which killed it. It cost quite a few to have it cut down and removed. So now he is on a quest!

*sigh* Poor squirrels! Sometimes they cross over to the Dark Side! At that point, it's all out war!

Voles are much smaller than most rats...more mouse sized...but very common, and they DO make appearances when and where they wish. As do rats and other "vermin." Just because you don't put out a bird feeder doesn't mean you don't have plenty of them in your yard and nearby areas. It just means you don't have a "rat-viewing platform" any more. But they are under the house, behind the shed, and in the woodpile. NOT necessarily in numbers high enough to be a health problem. Just there. It's unavoidable. Trap one and another will take his place. But they are usually smart enough to lay low during the day and come out when you aren't watching. Bird seed might make them bolder and more visible, but it doesn't actually increase their numbers appreciably.

Just some things to ponder.....

Marcia

Hi Bodiggly,

Yes I have grown vireyas in Florida. Unfortunately when we moved a few years ago I gave them away and I am waiting until I have a shade house before I get any more, although I am very tempted to buy some now. The important thing is to buy hybrids from the lower elevation species - these can take the heat and humidity. Also think orchids for their culture - they are semi-epiphytes so like a loose well draining medium but never let them completely dry out. They can't take freezing temperatures and like morning sun and afternoon shade.

Sorry this is hardly about bird feeders.

I know this is an old post but I'm replying anyway. We have many, many fruit trees in our yard so of course have rats but I rarely see them unless they're already dead. We also have a lot of little screech owls. My husband told me he was going to start feeding the owls - I'm thinking, yeah, right how're you going to do that? He filled the squirrel feeders at night to feed the rats and darned if he wasn't right! The rats came and the owls followed! One night I was outside with the dogs about 11:00, lights on, 3 border collies zooming around and I heard a strange noise behind me. It was an owl settling on the deck railing for his supper. I was so excited! when he was "feeding the owls" we did see them out and about more than usual at night.

I don't see a problem with owls and song birds in the same area as they tend to be active at different times. What does happen is a hawk will come through and nail a couple of the doves then move on. I don't mind that since there are more doves than anything else here.

Suzanne