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Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace'

12 years ago

Hy,

is Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace' a hybrid or a true Picea engelmannii cultivar?

Benjamin

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Comments (17)

firefightergardener
12 years ago
Bob Fincham thinks it's a hybrid I think and thus the fast growth.
pineresin
12 years ago
If he thinks it's a hybrid, what does he think the other parent is?

Resin
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I'd like to know the price of one of those... it has to be very expensive. I'd plant small and save the extra cash. Whenever I purchase plants... I make sure they are no larger than 1 gallon. Mainly because they take a lot less time to plant and it doesn't require the amount of maintenance/water as an 8' tree. They both are one of my favorites, but if I had to choose between the two I pick Bush's Lace because of the blue color. See the link below, Brent posted this picture in my thread earlier this year of one Here is a link that might be useful: Picture
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Did Some Weeding. Took Photos.
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Nate, the soil there is more clayish than I'd care for but not bad at all. It's definitely a good clay. I took more photos yesterday as framing is now in progress. Mike, I won't move them all. We, as a family, are going to sell my current home and some stuff I'll leave but, definitely not my favorite plants. I also have a lot of stuff in pots - so I'm hooked up to start. I'll also dig my conifers whenever I have too. I believe that transplanting is ok to do in mid-summer although nobody else here would probably 'risk' it. I'll just water them. That's the secret to being a good gardener. Grancru, my friend, thanks! Feel free to donate plants... Thanks a lot men! I feel the envy too. It's gotta be my shining personality and good looks that have gotten me thus far. I should have a wonderful place to live for the rest of my life. The three car garage: South side where you can see a window framed and a larger open framed spot for a slider glass door. I'm getting this real nice attached greenhouse, and I'll be able to see into it from the window but to enter, I'll need to go out through the slider glass doors into the elements and then enter the greenhouse (about 2 steps). We did it this way so that instead of walking right from the slider into, more space will be usable inside the greenhouse. If the slider door went directly in, then I'd lose wall space. I don't know. Frankly, my mom thought it all up. The window though is nice to release heat into the basement or vice versa as well as to see into it from the basement. Bonsai specimens will be the majority of plants my greenhouse will be taking up space for. These are the newest in framing as never is a post needed from the basement floor holding up the above floor. Kind of an interesting photo for you construction junkies. It's become a reality. Got my big-hog John Deere lawn tractor and a real nice rhototiller that drags behind, and pretty soon, I'll be out there cleaning it up and seeding and everything else. I feel real lucky. Thanks again to all you guys that send me scionwood and plants and seeds!
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The List
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Comments (21)
Other then a great selection of cultivars that will eventually turn your property into a thing of beauty I should like to add a few other comments. With the Acer palms coming from Oregon in late February I would be hesitant about putting them in the ground until the last frost occurs in your area if any have broken bud. Standly never ships Acers till after the last frost which is late April here in KC. The same could apply to you even if Z.7 in Tenn with a late freeze. All the red leaf Acers palms will take a hit if broken bud and this happens. I would not amend the soil. Crown root flare 2" above grade and no more then 2" of mulch. Applies to all plants. Carefully inspect potted root bound plants. Take necessary measures to correct root bound stock. If anything is B&B remove all burlap and wire cage if so supplied. Cupressus glabra 'Raywood Weeping' needs to be permanently staked for height other wise it will lay on ground. Best presentation if staked. Pinus banksiana Schoodic very suspectacle to Scale. Picea pungens 'Glauca Pendula' needs to be staked for height. A striking conifer if done right. Very unstable if left to free range which is not so bad either. Good choice. Picea pungens 'Fastigata' A Iseli conifer with a broader growth habit then Picea p.'Blue Totem'. Both great conifers with 'Blue Totem' better suited for limited space constraints. Pinus thunbergii 'Thunderhead' will not tolerate heavy snow loads and it does snow in Tenn so keep cleaned out. Last but not least...because I like to spend other peoples money I would also recommend several (Alaskan cedars) Chamaecyparis nootkatensis. No garden is complete without these beautiful conifers. I would be interested to know if you have a master design plan that gives consideration to height, color contrast, sun and shade issues just to mention a few for best presentation. Remember all these conifers will grow till they die. Don't be fooled by the 10 year growth size & height that are listed. Allow plenty of room as some of these will get big. When the truck arrives and you get it all unloaded send us a photo. Dave
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Picea engelmannii 'Bush's Lace'.
Q
Comments (5)
Looks great! I recall you having some early struggles with this cultivar. Looks like it has settled in nicely... and that leader appears to have some serious growth rate on it, as Sara suggested. What's the estimated age on this one?
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monkeytreeboy15
12 years ago
The other parent is likely P. pungens.
I agree with the hybrid possibility. It shows intermediate characteristics between the two species.

-Sam
firefightergardener
12 years ago
Future arborist/professor/nursery owner right there...
pineresin
12 years ago
Apparently, hybrids between P. engelmannii and P. pungens are extremely rare, if they exist at all:
"the phenotypic resemblance between these species is so close that hybrids have been reported, careful studies have failed to uncover incidences of natural hybridization" - Rehfeldt 2004 (pdf file), USFS Gen. Tech. Rep. RMRS-GTR-134

Photos I've seen of the plant, the foliage looks normal P. engelmannii to me. But I've never seen it close up. Anyone got cones on one yet, or is it still too new?

Resin
basic
12 years ago
P. glauca?
monkeytreeboy15
12 years ago
This is the closest picture I have...

For comparison, Picea pungens which shows the glaucous, steel-blue color of 'Bush's Lace'
{{gwi:616484}}

And Picea engelmannii which illustrates the needle-arrangement and texture of 'Bush's Lace'
{{gwi:616480}}

-Sam
tunilla
12 years ago
If I remember well,the original plant was spotted by Mr. Bush in a X-Mas tree plantation. He took some cuttings and when he returned the next day to get some more, the tree had been cut and was no longer there. If these P. engelmannii were seed-grown by the thousands, could it not have been a mutant or odd-ball in the same way as were at one time the pendulous Cedars ( libani sp and ssp and also deodara ) or the incredible Picea glauca 'Conica'(this one as a naturally sown tree) - to name just a few .
All it takes is the right person(s) at the right time at the right place!
It may be interesting to note that the 'Glauca' forms of P. engelmannii sold in this country also often display a pendulous habit. Check 'em out on google ! T.
bobfincham
12 years ago
Dick found the tree growing in a field of Picea pungens on a Christmas tree plantation when he was appraising trees for the IRS. He cut scions and propagated it as Picea pungens. I renamed it englemanii and a number of experts agreed. The reasons I propose it to be a hybrid are first it was originally a seedling of engleman among thousands of pungens and most importantly it grows much too fast to be simply a species of pungens or engleman. It shows conifer hybrid vigor. My oldest tree once grew 2 meters (6 feet) in one year. It consistently outgrows any pungens or engleman I have ever seen. It also has never coned.

Just conjecture on my pert.

Bob
tunilla
12 years ago
Thank you for the clarification, Mr Fincham.
Just two more questions, if you don't mind :
1. Does the choice of understock affect it's hybrid vigour and ultimate appearance (compact vs. open habit)
2. Is it possible to propagate this plant from cuttings?
Many thanks ! T.
bobfincham
12 years ago
Hello T.

I have grafted it onto Picea pungens and Picea abies and have seen no difference in the resulting plants. I have also worked with scion wood from terminals on the side branches and even side shoots along side branches and have noticed no big difference after a few years. I have noticed that during some years my old tree appears to more strongly pendulous than others.

I never tried it from cuttings. I believe it would be very difficult. Pungens has a few cultivars that will strike from cuttings with mixed results. Most won't root at all. I don't know of any englemannii that was ever rooted.

Bob
coniferjoy
12 years ago
The original 'Bush's Lace' is still alive and is growing happily at my friend Gary Gee's garden.
{{gwi:864941}}
Pic was taken by Henk.
sprucebud
12 years ago
Nice tree!
Richard
pineresin
12 years ago
If that's the original, too early yet to say for certain that it is sterile. Give it another 5 or 10 years to be sure on that.

Resin
tunilla
12 years ago
Thanks Bob!
Hey Edwin, I thought the original was cut as a Christmas tree ,but luckily lives on thanks to Dick Bush's taking scions in the nick of time! Intriguing stuff - somebody should start doing cartoons about the coniferworld !
PS Edwin: I tried e-mailing but failed.Ask Henk for my e-mail,send me a message and I'll get back to you! T.
coniferjoy
12 years ago
So we've to wait for cones to see if this one is a cross or not?
Sam's pics doesn't say anything to the species specialists?
syntax_chris_7a
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Bringing a thread back from the dead. Does anyone have any additional information if Bush's lace is a hybrid? @bobfincham claimed that it hasn't coned, but here is a link proving different: https://garden.org/plants/photo/266428/

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