Tom,

We've been clearing out our ground covers due to snakes as well. In fact (in the other thread) when you mentioned a meadow garden, I actually typed in about the snakes, but didn't want to be a wet blanket, so didn't say anything! Growing up around there, we had to watch for timber rattlesnakes (they smell like watermelon) and copperheads.

We have enough sun that we're using plants that snakes don't like - lavender, sage, thyme, oregano, rosemary, agastache, nepeta and perennial heliotrope.

I've not had any problem with the snakes getting under the golden creeping jenny in our rare shady/part sun areas. But, you've got to love gold to plant it. We use it in moist areas and it is a solid mat of gold coin-shaped leaves. Easy to propagate by sticking pinches of it in moist soil. We use a lot of it around our stream.

If you look at the bridge in the photo, you can see the gold mat of creeping jenny. That clumps goes into the water and floats on top!

Cameron
(PS I haven't forgotten about sending the seeds. I've been dealing with a very sick greyhound along with some family matters)

Cameron, I like the creeping jenny but wasn't sure it would be evergreen here.

As for snakes in the meadow garden, I'm sure there will be some. But that's in the backyard where I never tread at night. Plus, I'm hoping that light and airy will help deter them as it doesn't provide a lot of low ground cover.

Don't worry about the seeds. I've been lax on sending seeds to others myself.

I love that stream.

I have pennyroyal that forms a nice low mat too. It supposedly deters cats, mosquitoes, and other biting things. I wonder how it works with snakes? It's in the mint family and is a real thug too.

Are you perhaps trying for two opposing things here? 1. Not a ground cover and 2. not needing a lot of mulching.

What if you put a couple of shrubs with mulch under them over near the steps, and a ground covering plant further out? I'd want something that would eat oak leaves!

Well of course hosta would be so pretty but dies back and usually comes up sort of late. Also not sure it would be a snake deterrant. I think there is a creeping barberry or creeping Oregon grape (mahonia), which is spiky and might deter snakes. I would be thinking something spiky or scratchy like a juniper if that would grow in shade, I did see one variety from Plant Delights when I googled. Also saw the Oregon grape which I have 2 of the shrub kind in shade and love them. Lots of features for color and birds.
Laurie

I know you have gardenias, but that was my first thought.

Here is a link that might be useful: dwarf gardenias

treelover, I'm thinking about doing that, keeping the groundcover along the road to deter kids, salesmen, and wayward dogs, but planting shrubs near the steps.

I have several mahonias in the abandoned gardens outback. I've successfully transplanted only one. They seem to resent being moved. I like them a lot.

And gardenias are great. I have the dwarf ones at the store. That's my first choice of shrub for the area, stays green all year and the smell would be incredible.

Heuchera and/or tiarella would work well, but they can get expensive. What about ajuga?

My husband uses a leaf blower to blow the leaves off of the creeping jenny. I know some people hate to use those, but we have too much space to rake by hand.

If you have dry shade, you could try a winter daphne. Mine was gorgeous for three years with fragrant blooms from December until February -- then the day Steve Bender from Southern Living said he was coming to my garden, it up and died! I've heard that's that all daphne will do when you have other gardeners visit. LOL

It is our ground covering cotoneaster that the rat snake was living under! It looks great at the waterfall, but I'm ready to pull it out and plant a cascading rosemary there instead! I'm not afraid of rat snakes, but this one was coming out (visible and not afraid of us) everyday until my husband whacked back the cotoneaster and closed up the snake hole. There's nothing like taking your coffee out to sit by the waterfall only to have a snake try to keep you company! Too creepy! No thanks!

Cameron

Better than those rats/mice/etc he is catching! he probably just wants to thank you for the beautiful setting. LOL

Tom - I was going to say perennial geraniums, but the snakes would probably love them! Creeping Jenny would be good - it is incredibly hardy here - it only dies back when the sone covers it. Also, you could put creeping thyme in, and have that heavenly scent when you go for your walk.

Nancy.

How about dwarf mondo grass on the slope, Tom? It doesn't call a lot of attention to itself but could be a good filler for a difficult spot and background for your lilies and whatever shrubs you decide to put in. In my yard it stays green all year and seems to have no pests or even thirst. AND it is so low growing that a snake would have to be awfully small to hide in it.

Here's an interesting article about some unusual ways to use mondo grass and a nifty photo of a slope covered as I picture yours:

Here is a link that might be useful: Mondo Man

I'm surprised no one has mentioned pots, or a raised bed? To me, the oak tree is the real issue. They drink a lot. :)

Jim's right. The hardest part is the shade. I think I am going to mix in some Bath's pink for the sunny part since I'm using them along the edge of the wall on the other side of the walk. Then I have some tricolored sedums that should do well in the very dry shade. I'll see if I can find some creeping Jenny, but everything I've read says it likes moist conditions. Along the road, I plan to leave the nasty stuff. It'll fill in nicely next year. I may still install some shrubs. I have gardenias, azaleas, and nandinas. Time will tell.

Token, I want to thank you AND my husband for bringing back my phobia of snakes! lol. I've had three little ones this year in my flower bed, two garden snakes and a medium size bullsnake.

After reading your topic, and my husband bringing in from the orchard yesterday a SIX foot long skin of a bull snake (longest we've ever seen), I am now thinking about planting my flowers ten feet apart! lol

It looks like you live in a residential area, do you really get that many snakes? Yikes!

I do live in what would be called small town urban. The lots are normal sized, 150' x 75'. My lot is a double lot and measures just over 200' across and 150' deep, plus or minus a tree root or ten. The reason my lot is a double is because of the gully. At one time, it was an actual creek. Then the city rerouted it, taking it underground I guess. Now, it just serves as a holding area for run off from the street in front of the house. All the water that comes down the hills ends up in that gully. I've found turtles in there. So yeah, we get a few snakes. But never a single rabbit. There are some squirrels too. A chipmunk or three. And a couple of owls. It's very cool to live "in town" while being witness to all this nature.

Cameron will attest to me putting "town" in quotes as she knows the town well.