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Pinched throat daylilies

shive
13 years ago

I've added several pinched throat daylilies to my collection in recent years. I was wondering what you all think of the look. If anyone else has some that pinch in the throat, I'd love to see the photos. I'm trying to do some seed crosses with these. I am most interested in producing UFs with the pinched throat/pleated petal look.

HENRY LORRAIN, a Munson, is my most consistent throat pincher. Every bloom has pinched so far this season.

ANASTASIA, an older Salter, has shown throat pinching 90% of the time.

FAD GADGET, a recent Hanson, was new in the fall. It only had a few blooms, but every one was pinched.

STEALTH BOMBER, another Hanson, was added last year. None of the bloom so far have pinched. It may have to settle in to show the characteristic.

INTEGRATED LOGISTICS, also a Hanson, only had its first bloom this week. As you can see, the first bloom did not show pinching.

ONCE UPON A DREAM, a Bell, is supposed to pinch on occasion. But two seasons down and no pinching for me. I did see a photo posted on another forum where the throat was pinching.

{{gwi:659014}}

NIGHT MIST, a Salter, is one I've had for 7-8 years. It does some pinching. Usually just one or two petals pinch.

NEWTIE'S FANGS, which also has teeth, pinches in the throat about 75% of the time.

I also have a Dan Hansen cultivar, Love Comforts the Soul, that is supposed to be a throat pincher. It hasn't sent up any scapes this year, and did not pinch last year when it bloomed.

So what do think about the throat pinchers. Weigh in here.

Debra

Comments (35)

  • newyorkrita
    13 years ago

    Personally, I think your pictures are stunning as usual. But it's a look that I do not care for. Afew I have tried are no longer here as its just not to my taste. But I think I am very much in the minority as for not liking the look.

  • jan53_2008
    13 years ago

    Debra, I don't personally have any throat pinchers, but it is not because I don't like them. It's because I got upended and had to quit gardening or at least adding to my collections, just about the time that I found this website and really got the crazies for the newer, different forms. Your plans sound amazing to me; I would love to watch your program develop and I surely do hope you achieve your goals!!! But then, it seems that yours and my taste in looks and colors and forms seem to run pretty closely, at least with the responses I see on the forum. Go for your plan.....it sounds different and unique!! Jan G.

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    Lala - Anastasia was one of Jeff Salter's first registrations. A lot of hybridizers used it, but it seldom passed on the the pinched throat/pleated petals look. Salter did a few more with the effect, like ENCHANTED ELEGANCE and NIGHT MIST, but the pinched-throat look was not consistent. People who bought those cultivars expecting the pinching only got it occasionally. Kirchhoff used Anastasia and got Dragon King - beautiful and enduring, but no pinching in the throat. Moldovan got several registrations out of Anastasia, but no pinchers. Almost a decade later, John Peat, using ELIZABETH SALTER, got the pincher FRAZIER RIVER RUN. During the 90s, the buying public became obsession with eyes and edges and gold edges, so most hybrizers turned their focus toward those areas. Curt Hanson was the only hybridizer who relentlessly kept chasing the Anastasia look. Meanwhile, Dan Hansen has two registrations with pinching in the throat. He told me that was not a trait he was aiming for. It happened by accident. Bell introduced Once Upon A Dream as a sometimes pincher. So far it hasn't pinched for me, but I'm still hopeful. Debra
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  • Julia WV (6b)
    13 years ago

    I saw this on ROSE MASTERPIECE. Is pinching the same as sculpting?
    Here is ROSE MASTERPIECE with the pinch.
    {{gwi:794559}}

    I was thinking that PINK WHIP TIPS (Hanson) would pinch but haven't seen it happen yet.
    {{gwi:794557}}

    I have several Hansons that should show this so we shall see when they bloom.

    Julia

  • jean_ar
    13 years ago

    Well, every one to their taste and what they like,I guess.
    Personally,I don't care for them.Kind of like the spiders.I don't care for them either.My PAPER BUTTERFly HAS PINCHED PEDDLES ALL THE TIME, but,not the throat.The ends of the peddles pinch,and to me, its not pretty. I do hope you can get what you are wanting,DEBRA.

    Jean

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Rita and Jean - I understand your preference for the round, ruffly ones. That't what my husband loves too. Thanks for weighing in on the subject.

    Jan G. - I appreciate your enthusiasm and your encouragement.

    Julia 1- Your Rose Masterpiece does have pinching in the throat! I've seen it on other people's photo of that cultivar. Apparently RM does the pinching sometimes but not most of the time. Pinching and sculpting are not the same thing, according to the AHS. Scupting refers to raised surface lines on the petals. Curt Hanson calls these pinched throated cultivars "sculptural" as in they look like art sculptures. I don't think Pink Whip Tips is a throat pincher. I think its petals pinch like a crispate UF. I'll look forward to seeing your photos of the other Hanson when they bloom.

    Debra

  • numama
    13 years ago

    Debra, I do like the pinched throat look. I think it makes the daylily more 3D, well at least to my eye. I do not think it would look good on some. ANASTASIA and STEALTH BOMBER are to die for! On my want list.
    Nancy

  • silverkelt
    13 years ago

    I agree, there are a very few that look OK to me but nothing great.. and I dont mind the long elongated UFs especially cascading types, but this look isnt for me..

    Also the bearded look.. yikes.. nothing I like at all! I dont mind some sculpting, but even heavy sculpting seems out of place.

    However, ANASTASIA doesnt look all that bad..

    My pick out of all of these would be the BELL daylily though..

  • anniegolden
    13 years ago

    I don't care for the pinching. To my eye, it is ungraceful and detracts from the beauty of the flower. The notion that comes into my head is lack of generosity, which is why I love the daylilies in the first place. To put it in perspective, are you familiar with the clementine series of columbine? Why oh why would someone take a gorgeous graceful long spurred beauty and turn it into a chrysanthemum? Well, this got way too negative. But the old saying that beauty is in the eye of the beholder is definitely true.

    Christine

    Christine

  • Sue Knifley
    13 years ago

    I like the pinched throat. I have ONCE UPON A DREAM, so I will have to watch and see if it ever displays this quality. I don't think it has ever bloomed that way because I think I would have noticed it.

    Sue

  • mizellie
    13 years ago

    Who'd a thunk they would be so pretty. I like them all. Very unusual.. daylilies are evolving, it seems...Ellie

  • maximus7116
    13 years ago

    Well, you know I'm a fan, although I don't have many. I'm sure you already have Rock Lobster, which always pinches for me. Integrated Logistics was new last year and didn't show the trait on the few blooms I saw.

    I drool over Fad Gadget. Were you perhaps the one who outbid me on the Lily Auction for that one? Hmmmmmm?

  • carefreeplants_2008
    13 years ago

    haven't seen much of these pinched throats until now, but I like it. and I also like the bearded look, which I thought I saw in Texas Feathered Fancy.

    Ben

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    I found out a couple of things today. The pinched throat/pleated throat look is officially being called "Origami" sculpting by AHS folks discussing the sculpted classifications. Just so you know.

    The look I'm breeding for is what Stealth Bomber looks like in the photo on Tinkers Database. I tried to put in a link here and was unsuccessful. Take a look at that photo. To me, that flower is the epitome of beauty and grace. I sure hope my SB will pinch like that soon. On the three blooms I had today, one made the attempt to pinch on one petal only. A couple of days last week my pink UF seedling had one petal do the same thing. I've crossed the seedling with Stealth Bomber and Anastasia and have seed pods. I just hope they don't abort in these temps.

    Nancy - The origami look is very 3-D. Some of these flowers make me think of Japanese girls in kimonos.

    Christine - I think some daylilies do look ungraceful with this trait. It's like they're feeling uptight. My husband thinks they even look a bit evil. I wouldn't want a whole garden of them - just a few as objects of art.

    Sue - Do post a photo of Once Upon A Dream if it pinches for you!

    Ben - It's great to know you are open to new forms.

    Ellie - You are very right. Daylilies have been evolving since Arlow Stout hybridized with the species. Who knows what the future will bring, or how far hybridizers will take this flower.

    Chris - I hope one of us gets a pinched throat on Integrated Logistics this summer. Please post a photo if you do. I did win Fad Gadget on the Lily Auction. Surely that wasn't YOU I was bidding against. Uh oh.

    Here's a photo of SYMPHONY OF PRAISE, which occasionally shows the pinched throat. I love this look on her.
    {{gwi:670974}}

    Debra

  • maximus7116
    13 years ago

    That's a great look on SOP. I checked the photo of Stealth Bomber on Tinker's, and whoah! I had no idea it could look that good. I received it as one of a bunch of bonuses this year from Curt Hanson and wasn't very familiar with it. Now that I've seen that photo, I'm excited.

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Chris - You will like Stealth Bomber. The color is so pretty in the sunshine. What all did you get from Curt? Any other pinchers? Inquiring minds want to know. I would really like to get Rainbow Mesa and Cool Hand Luke.

    Debra

  • maximus7116
    13 years ago

    Cool Hand Luke is on my "need to acquire" list, too.

    I ordered Jellyroll Morton, Capacity for Wonder (wanting more polychromes) and Long Legged Lap Dancer. LLLD is supposed to be a pincher, but it's a red (not your favorite, I know).

    He sent a generous bunch of bonus plants: Stealth Bomber, Subspace Frequency, Solitary Loon, Added Attractions and The Goldilocks Effect. I'd suggested AA and TGE and was very happy to get them. From now on, my Hansons will all come directly from Curt.

  • ozzysboy
    13 years ago

    Chris, Debra--further to the Hansons, I received Unpredictable You from Hanson as a gift last year, fully expecting an ugly flower--just DO NOT like his catalog picture, and I would NEVER have bought it. It bloomed this spring, and I gotta say, it's an absolutely beautiful bloom. Whatever it was doing on the day Hanson took his photo must have been an aberration. For the most part, the blooms are much rounder than his shot but do exhibit throat pinching. As a measure of my regard, I've been using its pollen about 3x as often as the pollen from Betty Harwood (which was the plant I actually bought).

    I like Hanson's "sculptural" flowers; his Painted Mesa is quite interesting--it opens flat and relatively nondescript, but as the day heats up it starts to pucker and orange/pink/salmon tones start coming through a weird Mars violet base colour.

    BTW, The Goldilocks Effect has been a consistent eye-popper--not sure if this one qualifies under AHS as sculptured, but it has a corduroy-ish look through the throat, rather like Dan Hansen's Hogwartz Express.

  • blue23rose
    13 years ago

    I never really thought about it or even looked for a pinched throat before, but I like your pictures of it. I like the dimension it gives. I like it as well as the flat, open ones.

    Vickie

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Chris - Jellyroll Morton should be a good pincher. And I've been drooling over Solitary Loon for a couple of years. I'll have to look the others up because I've forgotten what they look like. Curt is so generous with the bonuses! We've had more than 10 days of temps in the mid-90s, and Curt's daylilies - whether dark purple or pastel orchid - hold up as a group better than any other hybridizer's. That's why I want to add more of his to my garden. They all have thick petal substance. I love the polychromes of Brother Charles, so maybe I should add some of Curt's.

    Ozzy - I wish you would post a photo of Unpredictable You. I remember hating the photo in the catalog.

    Vickie - Thanks for your comments!

    Debra

  • maximus7116
    13 years ago

    Ozzy, I'd love to see some photos, too.

    Chris

  • Julia WV (6b)
    13 years ago

    I thought I would update about PINK WHIP TIPS (Hanson). It is known to pinch so I will be watching as each bloom opens to see if I get the "pinch" :-). 2 opened today but no distinguishing pinching I could see .
    STEALTH BOMBER (from Curt)has scapes here.I did get SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS also from Curt included in his very generous gift plants. Can't recall if it has any scapes yet. Will look after dinner when the temps cool off a bit.

    Chris: LONG LEGGED LAP DANCER and CAPACITY FOR WONDER both have scapes.

    Julia

  • deangreen
    13 years ago

    no, I don't like it at all... ha ha. there I just had to say it. but I didn't like spiders until I warmed up and wanted "Sqaredancer's Curtsy" in my yard... but it definitely is unique and different. I've never been fond of toothing either. so really it's just all in what people like. I think I'm more for variance in color color colors than messing around with what the petal is doing...although maybe if they had a pinched petal that was round at the end only like little fans?...hmm
    I do like your pics though. thanks for the post!

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Julia - So Pink Whip Tips is a pincher. Cool! I'll be looking forward to seeing your photos of Stealth Bomber and Saucerful of Secrets. I've been thinking about adding Saucerful.

    Debra

  • hosenemesis
    13 years ago

    I don't care for it. It reminds me of the fleshiness of a Bird of Paradise flower- like an arm tendon exposed. I do like stripes down the petals, though.
    Renee

  • pamghatten
    13 years ago

    Debra, love your pictures.

    I am a fan of sculpted/pinched daylilies, spiders and UF's. Not much of a fan of rounded things, too many similar looking ones. And hate chicken fat edges, to me they look deformed.

    Guess it's a good thing there are 66,000 registered daylilies ... everyone can get what they like.

    I'm going to be at Curt's next week, so I plan on adding some sculpted daylilies to my gardens.

    Pam

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Pam - Let us know what you get!

    Debra

  • Nancy
    13 years ago

    I don't have any pinched throat daylilies, and I guess I haven't paid attention to them before. I'm liking some of them though, I really like your FAD GADGET & NEWTIE'S FANGS. I looked up Stealth Bomber, may have to get that one some time, it is really different.

  • Julia WV (6b)
    13 years ago

    SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS has 3 scapes with buds. So I have several chances to see if it will have the pinched throat.

    Julia

  • Sue Knifley
    13 years ago

    Debra
    I checked SOP yesterday afternoon, and discovered that the bloom open had the pinched throat! Here are a couple of pics. I also check my ONCE UPON A DREAM but only one petal was pinched on it. It's been raining here today and is supposed to be much cooler.

    Sue {{gwi:806657}}From 2010-06-27
    {{gwi:806658}}From 2010-06-27

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Sue - Your Symphony of Praise looks so pretty with the pinched throat. My Rosy Rhino has had pinched throat blooms for the past two days, but it doesn't fully open until later in the morning. It's been so hot, I never get back out there to photograph it. And by the end of the day, it's been looking too raggedy.

    Debra

  • ozzysboy
    13 years ago

    Chris and Debra:

    I'd love to be able to upload some photos--hoping for a digital camera this year for the bday :) I've been a bit of a Luddite, resisting the change to digital and still using my Nikon FA from the 1980s, and I mostly save my shots for my own seedlings since developing isn't cheap. But one way or another, I'll get myself ready for next year--frankly, it's seeing all the great photos on this site that's put me in the mood to make the switch over to digital.

    If it's helpful, the shape of Unpredictable You, for me in my garden, has been somewhere between Spock's Ears and Primal Scream. Its pollen went onto White Eyes Pink Dragon and Inimitable this morning. Its dancecard has Belief in Vein, Judy Farquhar and Wispy Rays (if WR actually sets pods this year) waiting in line, :P

    -Eric

  • shive
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Eric - Thanks for the description of Unpredictable You. I hope you will make the switch to digital photography. I think you'll really like a digital camera once you get used to it.

    Debra

  • sundays
    13 years ago

    Hi Debra,
    I found this topic by accident while looking up something else. I just love the look of the pleated throats. It adds such a three dimensional quality to them ! Those are beautiful pictures you posted this summer. As for Unpredictable You, which was mentioned, I can't remember the catalog picture, but I think that's why it has the name it does. Who knows which look it will have on any given bloom. I also like the look of the cultivars that have taken the pleated look a little further, like Mork and Mindy, Nude Yoga, and Mother Upduff.

  • Julia WV (6b)
    13 years ago

    Here are a couple which I did get photos of from this past summer.

    STEALTH BOMBER blooming here this summer. I got it from Curt and it was planted in the spring 2010.
    {{gwi:806659}}

    {{gwi:664684}}

    SAUCERFUL OF SECRETS did not pinch so maybe next summer. Another one I got from Curt.
    {{gwi:806661}}

    {{gwi:806663}}

    Julia

  • sundays
    13 years ago

    I'll bet they pleat next summer. Great pictures, Julia. Eric, nice crosses ! I especially like the WEPD one !