Our 'Therese Bugnet' are over 6', but took a few years to get established, and were regularly knocked down by the balmy NW breezes here, and also used to experience some winter kill some years.
Sounds as though you are having some winter kill on yours too, since you mention that the height is varying greatly from year to year. As the plant ages, and old wood survives, the shrub overall will become more upright (since the old wood is stiff and "woody").
Most roses sucker, including 'Terese Bugnet'.

If it's interfering with a pathway, I would stake up the branches...otherwise, I'd just let it be. When we need to stake anything, we draw on our large supply of stakes that we bought from Lee Valley - they are green-plastic-coated metal rods with an open loop on the end to hold the stem - they come in two lengths, and are quite unobtrusive.

Have you done any pruning to the rose? Some people remove a few of the older, thicker and thornier canes completely each year. This encourages newer canes to grow and better blooming.

Hard to explain, but sometimes they tend to get spindly crooked growth near the bottom or at the outer sides. Then the next spring this spindly branch may get a side shoot, making it more crooked yet. You can tidy the plant up and remove these if you'd like. You have to be the judge on which to remove, maybe not too much, but enough to tidy up the appearance.

I guess everyone has their own cultural practices. My Mom used to cut her Therese to about two feet from the ground each fall.

On my shrub, I didn't go to that extreme, but I used to remove lots of the growth because I wanted to keep it from spreading too wide. One year I must have removed half the shrub. I removed some of the older canes from the centre, the ones that are thick and old looking and even cracking bark on them. I left the newer upright strong looking canes, but removed some of the floppy bending spindly branches around the outer edge of the plant that wouldn't stand upright.

I guess I am saying you don't have to trim, but if you want to that's alright. Even if you want do it every couple of years to keep the shrub under control.

Regarding those suckers, you can leave them in place if you'd like, or remove them. If you try to dig them out, they might have a bit of root on them, and you might be able to move them to another part of the yard and start a new plant. Not sure if that would work now, I did that in spring one year. The 'sucker' struggled for about a year but then started to grow like mad.

Glen

ABgardeneer:
Are you saying that my Therese Bugnet is not yet established even at 6 years old? There has been one or two canes every year die from winter kill, but it's the new growth that sometimes gets broken by winds. I have wondered if all the rain we've had this summer has caused the canes to become floppy as if they can't bear to stand up. Is that possible? I'm really excited to hear about the metal stakes from Lee Valley. They're building a store here in Saskatoon and I can hardly wait until it's open. Any guesses on where I want Christmas presents from? (giggle)

Glen:
Yes, we have regularly removed one or two of the oldest canes along with the winter killed ones, and a couple of times some of the newer growth around the edges. I guess maybe we have been afraid to remove too much. Only one cane is upright this year. All the rest, including the old growth is flopping over, with the result the shrub is quite short looking and 6 - 7 feet wide!! Would it be best to remove some of the outer growth in spring when it is easier to see with no leaves, or now when it's easier to see the floppiest? Maybe my real question is whether it is this shrub's nature to be wider than tall?

We had 3 suckers come up quite far from the main plant this spring. We removed them, potted them up and gave them to a friend who put them in her garden. All 3 are growing, with one looking really good! She's thrilled!

Thanks to both of you for the answers and advice!
Peggy

Peggy,
Yes, in rereading your post, I did see you said you'd planted it in '99.
Our plants took maybe 3 years to decide to be the windbreak they were intended to be (but we knew we'd planted it in the right place when the wind kept knocking it down, LOL!) Then, again, we have several of them so after a certain point, the old canes all help to support each other. Is yours in an incredibly windy spot?
Does it have a lot of canes or are some of them actually dying to the ground?

If you want it to be upright, I don't understand why you'd cut out the old canes - they are what give the bush overall its structure and wind-resistance (if wind is part of the problem, as it definitely was here). Each year's new canes link with and get support from the old sturdy ones. Unless the old canes are actually dead, I would just leave them until the shrub overall develops enough strong, upright old wood to support itself...sounds like it isn't there yet. Also, Lois Hole's book says it blooms on old wood, so another reason to leave the old canes. We got an unusual amount of rain here too, but our roses aren't flopping. Weak,lax growth can be promoted by heavy fertilizing - something these hardy roses don't need.

Another thought...is it definitely a 'Therese Bugnet'? Pots often get mislabelled at nurseries. The lax habit over the long period you mentioned might suggest one of the "climbing" hardy roses, e.g. 'William Baffin', 'John Cabot', etc.. It might be worth googling some of these climbers...and then consider installing a trellis behind it, LOL!

A cursory description of 'Therese Bugnet', if it's helpful...
The bark on new growth is red and essentially thornless; despite the rugosa blood, the leaves are smooth; old stems have a thin covering of very narrow, needle-like thorns (nowhere near as thorny as many rugosa-types); very heavy bloom in spring, then sporadically until killing frost; flowers about 3" across...whew, that's enough!

I (or probably most of the other poeple on here, LOL!) could post pictures if there is any question of ID.

Sorry I didn't get back here sooner. We were out of town closing up our cabin for the year.

ABgardeneer;
Thanks for all your time with this. I don't think it's in an terribly windy spot, and I don't think there are any dead canes right now. And I don't fertilize. I thought it was suffering from chlorosis earlier this summer so I gave it a chelated iron treatment according to package directions.

Oddly enough I had thought it might have been a mislabelled plant. I'm going to try to post a couple of pictures. Maybe you could ID it for me please?

Close Up of Leaves

{{gwi:775335}}

Floppy Bush

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Peggy,
Will look more closely and post some photos of 'Therese Bugnet', 'William Baffin', and 'John Cabot' probably this evening for comparison...unless someone has some handy now?

Those long, narrow leaves look very typical of Therese Bugnet to me. Cabot and Baffin have rounder leaves. Just MHO.

Also, I don't think it looks all that floppy or messy at all. It's just more of a rambling-shape rose. My Harison's Yellow is like that too. Yours looks nice and healthy.

I tie my Therese Bugnet to a trellis...that way she doesn't flop over everything else planted around her. She is a bit of a rambler or climber...depending on if you just let her flop or tie to trellis.

In my garden she gets very little winter die back...but in the odd year she does get some. I'd say she is about 6 or so feet tall.

Sierra

Thanks everyone for your comments and suggestions. I'm thinking now that maybe I just wasn't expecting such a loose casual growth habit, and that I should just chill! LOL

I'll do a little pruning in the spring to control the width, but otherwise just enjoy!

Peggy

Yes, sure looks like 'Therese Bugnet' - 'William Baffin' and 'John Cabot' have rounder, as Northspruce says, and much more toothed leaves, and lack the red stems.
Can only suggest, as said before, to not cut out any old wood and see if that helps. Otherwise, other than being surprisingly short (to me!), it looks just fine.

Does anyone have a picture they could post of the fall color and the winter red stems? Everyone oohs and ahs over these online and in the books, but I have yet to see a picture....

Thanks,
Sharon

This is fantastic four season rose!

Terry

I just purchased one on ebay - do I need to wait until after last chance of frost to plant?

If the plant is starting to leaf out already when you get it, I would wait until the frosts are pretty much done with, or else the plant will be set back by losing all of it's leaves. But, if you don't mind covering it when frost threatens, then you could plant it when the soil warms up enough to dig.
Will you be getting it as a bare root or potted? Even if it's bare root, if it were me, I would pot it up and keep it inside til it warms up........but then I tend to baby my plants too much :)

Laurie

Thanks for the fall picture, Sharon. That helps a lot.
I'd be even more interested in a winter picture, too, if I could see one. Any takers?

Thanks,
Sharon

New question about this rose.. I bought it and I'm trying to decide where to plant. Is partial shade okay for this one or do I need to try and find full sun? (very limited supply of that!)

My therese Bugnet rose gets afternoon shade and has done well and blooms well. You might get more blooms in full sun though. Its one of the most reliable that I have seen!

Sierra

Most reliable how? For continuous bloom throughout the season?

Sharon

My Terese Bugnet came from David Austin. I have it is south border and in one season has reached 5 feet x 5 feet and flowered. My Rugusa hedging Hansa rose hedge in garden has been planted at same time in May 2020 and is only one foot high and wide. Never seen a rose like this grow as fast as Bugnet. Zone 5a

I've had this rose for years. I was checking this forum to give me justification to get rid of it. I do not like it. iit is really tall and putting out tons of suckers. But the blooms disappointed. They are pretty and fragrant but very fragile. One good rain and all the flowers are gone.

I feed mine with tons of old stable and lucky to have a the farmer supply of rotten cow manure.Rain never affects Bugnets flowers even in the sea coast winds. Early days I admit but up to know happy with this rose shrub. Its pink flowers scented and large. Maybe cut down and feed your rose water well use cuttings and make a hedge as that is what this rose excels at. Only suggestion as you know your rose better than I do. Hansa rose hedge behind it here is now 4 feet tall so this summer did the trick as wettest summer ever known. My intent is to take cuttings of Bugnet and at field border plant up to stop deer as hate Rogusa roses .Have wire fence in front field side as aid to defensive tactics .Sort of belt and bracers . Bugnet I do not have to care for she is just right for this job.Plant in manured trenches and water well for first year and leave her to do her thing. .Cant understand why yours is such a flop for you dear. May be position may be breeder maybe both. Austin gives cash refund even after 5 years if plant is not right.They said in Europe rose needs some shade for start then feed and water as young then allow space for it to mature. I did this in test bed and ready soon for cuttings for hedge. Id cut your rose down and start it again as something is not right

Ok. I haven't been attentive. So when it cools down, I will do an aggressive pruning and see what nature says.

No I did not say you had ignored it only my way of working suggested. Sounds good anyway but wear thick gloves as Bugnet roses all of them have mighty powerful thorns

Oh no Kevin. To be sure I ignored it😊. And your post reminds me that I do need to make an effort before I toss it.

No worries dear. Let me know if any improvement later. Id buy it off you but live in Europe north . Can only deal with EU