Professor Tapla's Super Duper Container Soil -- Modified
figaholic
15 years ago
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15 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
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Comments (23)Some very good points & you are correct that paste tomatoes are more prone to BER. I think they are ones that require, as you specify, more attention to soil composition & micronutrients (especially Calcium). I believe I bought my SM seeds from Wal-Mart or Lowe's. Probably Ferry Morse, as that's the brand I usually buy, if any, at the "box stores." My BER experience is what made me get off the typical "box store" fertilizers like MG & go on a fertilization plan that Al uses, which has worked great! :) I am ready to try the paste varieties again & am growing San Marzano Lungo No 2 & Amish Paste this year. I am confident that with my improved fertilization plan & soil composition plan, that I will have great luck with them. I used to use pre-bagged somewhat higher quality soils like MG Moisture Control Potting mix, etc.. They worked great for most veggies. Some of the more "touchy" ones work better in soils with pine bark, perlite, etc.. I guess i'll find out soon if my attempt at the SM's & Amish Paste is successfull, as my wee seedlings are starting to grow their first true sets of leaves now! Yay! =) Happy Gardening! - Steve P.S. _ started my gardening blog in the late Winter of 2008/2009. I looked through my posts from 2009 & found the one where I talk about the BER on the Marzano's. Towards the bottom of the post below. You can see how healthy the plants look (and how nice all my other maters look). Disappointing to revisit it...lol...A hard learning experience that I will rectify this year! =) Here is a link that might be useful: July 2009 BER On SM Plants Post...See MoreShould I put gravel on the bottom
Comments (38)Wow - you guys have been busy while I put in a long day. Dan A fine-textured horizon underlying a coarse-textured horizon retards saturated flow (my emphasis) because the small pores do not transmit water as quickly as do large pores. I mention this because it's an important point. From the practical perspective, for both containers and raised beds, we're not really interested in how fast the perched water percolates through this layer (as long as it's not hours and hours or days, and this is a horticultural issue, not a scientific one), only that it does. We have now established that a soil strata that will support a PWT under some conditions (as when it's in a container) and that is resting atop a layer of finer soil will drain into the lower, finer strata, which is a 180* reversal from your original premise. We can probably also agree that the same strata of soil that will support a PWT will not drain when it rests atop a very coarse layer. We know the point at which the capillary pull of the lower strata + the gravity flow potential equals the capillary holding power of the top strata is the point at which the top strata will drain. Let's argue the science through practical examples & see where that leads us: Let's assume we have a container soil that will support a 4" PWT in a container (call it CS4) and we have a 12" deep container. We'll also assume that we can do magical things like setting a soil mass complete with a PWT atop another material. 1) The most important part of the discussion to container gardeners will pertain to what happens when there is a very coarse layer of material under the CS4 soil. Nothing. The CS4 soil will retain 4" of perched water @ container capacity regardless of how much water is added to the soil after container capacity, and regardless of the soil column depth (as long as it is deeper than 4". If it is less than 4" deep, the entire soil column will simply remain saturated.) 2) A homogeneous CS4 from the top of container to bottom will also retain 4" of perched water @ the bottom of the container @ container capacity regardless of how much water is added to the soil after container capacity, and regardless of the soil column depth. My contention is also that if the CS4 was layered atop another strata comprised of particles up to 2.2X the particulate size of the CS4, there would be no impediment to drainage, but this is a minor point & not important to the discussion. 3) If 4" of CS4 is layered above 2" of dry sand (lets imagine that the sand will support a 5" PWT in a container), perched water will move out of the CS4 into the sand until it is saturated. At that point, some or all of the water will perch in the CS4, depending on whether or not the water column has enough gravitational flow potential to overcome the capillarity of the sand. 4) If 4" of CS4 is layered atop 6" of dry sand, all the perched water will move into the sand, as long as the total air porosity of the 6" of sand is greater than the volume of perched water in the CS4. The soil column section would 5 reveal 5" of sand with perched water - 1" of sand with no perched water, and no perched water in the CS4, regardless of height. 5) Now lets use a practical example for raised beds. You have already reversed your position and allowed that perched water will move from a strata of coarser particles into one of finer particles. Since the soil being discussed on the SF forum is a sandy loam, we know that the raised bed soil is very similar in structure to container soils. If it is fine enough to want to retain ANY perched water, we have already seen that the water would readily move downward into the sand unless the sand is saturated. To illustrate this, hold a saturated sponge with the large surfaces horizontal until it stops draining. Set the sponge on several layers of paper towels and note how much water moves into the paper towels. Back to the raised bed ... Since we know the organic mix will freely drain into the sand, sandy loam, even clay loam it makes incorporating any organic material into the native soil a superfluous exercise. Now, in the case where the soil might actually BE saturated, we are warned that incorporating organic material into those soils prone to saturation very often creates the bathtub effect, it should be avoided. You cannot use the argument impermeable in either raised beds or containers because the water is free to move laterally into either thin air or through/under RB walls. If not, it is certainly free to move laterally as the surface of surrounding soil dries. I'll say this gently, but you accused me of working from faulty premises and logic, and of course I disagree. You also accused me of obfuscation, and introducing irrelevant examples several times, yet a couple of paragraphs later you introduce "exfiltration (and evapotranspiration)". Your "Why wouldn't one incorporate nutrients as deeply into the soil as possible?" seems to be irrelevant because your initial justification was that it would eliminate a perched water table. You may note that I've not had to do any back-pedaling on any of my statements, and I haven't had to add qualifications like "generally the rule of thumb", "for most purposes", "this modifies my assertion". You also keep making the point No Gravel, but no one ever argued opposite that point. "I'll try to be a gentleman if you'll be fair. If you read my posts again, you'll see there are few on these forums that remain as focused on the core argument as I. I'm not in thge habit of introducing extraneous points to avoid the issue. I also disagree with Generally, the rule of thumb for larger particle size below is the entire column for most purposes must be saturated to drain. Not always, but if you are advising someone and state this you are correct 85% of the time. As I illustrated above, a soil that supports 4" of perched water in a container will ONLY support 4" max. It's 11 here now. I've been up since 5 and had almost 10 hrs on the road, so I'm weary. I hope what I said is easy enough to string together and understand. ;o) Take care. Al...See More5-1-1 mix recipe --- a couple questions
Comments (102)coco does not disintegrate, it resist decomposition and last several years.. i have made a quick video showing how airy it is, and it's certainly not "dust" like it's mentioned in that 2 line sentence about the person in that link you posted say it is, and as i've said, coco can be purchased in coarser grade too. i'd imagine mixing the finer grade coco with the coarser coco would make one hell of a mix that will put the 5-1-1 mix to shame and keep so much money in your pocket.. but i think just the normal texture coco is fine, there are plenty of people who use it on thehotpepper forum by itself with amazing results. it does not compact at all despite how hard it is squeezed. very fibrous which is why it does not really need any additives such as perlite, bark, etc..which saves huge amounts of money. the amazing thing about is it has tremendous water holding capacity while still staying light and airy and not suffocating plant roots. there are so many other reasons why it's superior to just about every type of planting media out there. research and very much doubt you'll find many valid negative things about it....See MorePeppers in Containers
Comments (6)I am no expert but I grow Cayennes, pequins and a few others in vinyle growbags that cost me$10 for 10 with free shipping. So $1 a bag. They have all different sizes I got the 5Gal. I think these are cool because #1 they worked great and cheap this past summer, and I still have the plants growing indooors in them. #2 If you don't want to put 5Gal of mix in, then just roll down the vinyle, and that is what I did. I also bought 5 (7) gallon black fabric bags for $20, but the cheaper ones seemed to perform better. I also grow Peppers in 5 gallon buckets and the Vinyl bags seemed to do better. Anyway I put a link in here to show you what I bought. Oh yeah the mix was 5-1-1 from Tapla and I used MG Tomatoe water soluble for Fertilizer. Here is a link that might be useful: White Vinyle Grow bags...See Morefigaholic
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agofigaholic
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15 years agolast modified: 9 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
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15 years agolast modified: 9 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agofigaholic
15 years agolast modified: 9 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
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15 years agolast modified: 9 years agotapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)