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Sequoia sempervirens in central NJ - Any chance?

famartin
14 years ago

I'm about to experiment with S. sempervirens in central NJ. I know its the edge of its hardiness as far as cold goes... but I've also heard of one out in East Hampton, Long Island, NY which has survived down to 2F at least, which is about as cold as its gotten at my experiment site in the last 15 years (before then its been below zero, so while it does get below zero, its not common). Just wondering what anyone thought my chances of success were...

Comments (95)

  • famartin
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Well Taxo, at least some of its still alive ... Haven't seen the one at my parents (via photo or otherwise) since mid Feb. Probably won't have more pictures to share til early May when I get back East for a few days.

  • JakeK
    13 years ago

    Here is a Sequoia sempervirens 'Glauca' growing in Cincinnati, OH. I'm not sure if last winter was it's first, second or third. It's not in a protected location, just at the top of a ridge partially under the canopy of a mature Pinus sylvestris. It's about 1m tall.

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  • famartin
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Is that a recent pic? It looks like its already starting to put on new growth...

  • blue_yew
    13 years ago

    That sequoia sempervirens glauca its a nice form but
    very rare in the trade.

  • JakeK
    13 years ago

    The photo was taken on Sunday, April 10, 2011, so fairly recent. Most everything has broken dormancy in this area.

  • taxo_man
    13 years ago

    Wow, this looks great! : )
    Maybe the Glauca is a little more hardy than the regular species?
    I will take another picture of mine, once the new growth starts.
    Very cool.

    J

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Have arrived home to find... mine has also broken bud too :-)

    A dead branchlet here and there, but for the most part intact.

    Also, I hadn't mentioned this, but I planted a few more (smaller) ones last summer and they've made it through as well and have broken bud.

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    This is the one that's been in the ground since Fall '09... she looks a little beat up, but that might be because I had it dug out of the snow at one point... probably should've emphasized the use of extreme care in that procedure ;)
    {{gwi:813185}}

    Here's the newer one I planted down near the stream late last summer. Much smaller as you can see... but still alive and kicking:
    {{gwi:813186}}

    And for good measure, the Sequoia I also planted back in Fall '09:
    {{gwi:813187}}

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago

    Very nice! Everything looks great.

    J

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Thanks Taxo... how's yours doing?

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago

    Will post a new picture up soon.
    I see buds and new growth shooting out in all areas of the tree. It looks a little ratty, but otherwise healthy. : )

    J

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago

    Some updated pics..

    J

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Most recent pic from Tuesday... decent progress in 8 days. Won't likely have another picture for a month or so since I'm back out West...

    {{gwi:813195}}

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Oh, here's the Sequoiadendron giganteum... I was quite impressed with how quickly it grew last Spring when I was able to see it at approximately one month intervals, and there's decent growth just in the 8 days spanning the two pictures... eager to see what it'll look like in a month or two.

    {{gwi:813196}}

  • rich101
    12 years ago

    Wow, glad to see this thread is still active. The answer is: YES. Here is a link to a 10 year old Sequoia sempervirens (coast redwood) in Metuchen NJ. I bought this as a small seedling at UC Davis. It loses some needles every winter, but recovers well every spring (maybe a plus of global warming).

    Here is a link that might be useful:

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago

    WOW!! That one is amazing, well done.

    J

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Yes indeed, very nice!

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Taken yesterday... good progress in the last month (sorry for the quality, my brother took this picture with a cell phone camera)

    {{gwi:813198}}

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago

    Nice!
    This shot is from today.

    J

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    A+ on having some hostas nearby! ;)

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Taken Friday...
    {{gwi:813200}}

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago

    Haha, yeah, I think they do well next to each other.
    Taken today..


    J

  • interloper5_hotmail_com
    12 years ago

    I have been trying to grow redwoods in Maryland 15 miles east of DC since about 2000 and out of about 10 only 2 have survived. and the 2 that survived get ample amounts of sunlight. Both are over 6 feet tall even though one was girdled by a deer at about 3 feet like 2 years ago. all the other ones died because I think they didn't get enough sunlight in the summer. I'm not so positive about their future, because they really love to grow when it rains. So I think this is because they absorb much of their water needs through their needles. Because I can water them every day and they don't have much growth but after a couple of days straight of rain they really grow fast. but I fear once they grow maybe 30-40 feet they probably will die in a hot summer. I think the Hot weather is more of a danger to them than the freezing weather.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    12 years ago

    "once they grow maybe 30-40 feet they probably will die in a hot summer"

    I hate to even have to get back into this, but hot summers haven't managed to kill two 90+ ft. trees in Williamsburg, VA, planted in 1955, or the similar-sized one in Abbeville, SC. Or the 45' tree in Silver Spring, MD. They don't have a problem with hot humid summers and obviously have to form extensive root systems to support their size, if nothing else, so they will probably have no problem finding enough ground water except on the very driest sites. It's not quite the Tierra del Feugo where they are from. At the northern end of its range, record highs are in the upper 80s, and range to the upper 90s in southern parts. (96 for the normally chilly Fort Bragg, for example, but that would be blistering dry Diablo winds from the central valley. At least our 96 is humid)

    I had a small plant that made it through this summer, with not a drop of supplemental irrigation, which was the hottest July on record. And dry enough my lawn was brown other than the crabgrass. It looked completely unfazed in full sun. It was mulched.

    Things more likely to kill them than heat:

    a lightening strike (when they get big, obviously)

    a hurricane/wind storm (took out a big chunk of one of the W&M Trees in 2003)

    for a small plant, a once every 10-20 year winter like 1994

    a once every 50-100 years winter like 1985...which the W&M trees obviously survived. They had no injury after 0F in 1994.

    ...none of which have happened since 2000. How did they die for you? In summer or winter? Were they mulched? Are you sure something like voles didn't eat them? What was your low for the entire period? According to (http://www.hardiestpalms.com/) it shouldn't have been much below 0F. I assume you are sure you aren't growing Sequoiadendron, which die quite easily south of about NYC.

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Rob,

    I think davidrt28 covered every possible scenario (or at least the most likely ones) as far as why yours haven't made it. One of mine did die for an unknown reason during its first spring, though nearby fence construction may have been the cause. Redwood definitely can handle getting water solely through irrigation... just visit the Central Valley of California some time to see them thriving there, where the only summer water is through irrigation and temperatures routinely soar into the 90s and 100s (with less than ideal humidity to boot). Giant Sequoia (Sequoiadendron giganteum) is not likely to do well in eastern Maryland, but Coast Redwood (Sequoia sempervirens) should do alright.

  • firefightergardener
    12 years ago

    The only thing I can add to this discussion is that roughly 0 is right about the threshhold. I had two young trees, one planted in a pot, the other the ground and the one in the pot died back(and was moved into the ground later) during a record cold stretch of weather here where we saw air temps about +5 degrees for 3 days in a row. The ground specimen had ZERO problems whatsoever.

    In our very dry Summers, I have been watering every 2-3 days, thoroughly because I have sandy soils, and these trees seem to be lush and happy.

    If I had 20 acres, I'd plant 5 acres of nothing but coast redwoods. What a national(global) treasure they are.

    -Will

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    Taken Monday, 22 August 2011:
    {{gwi:813202}}

  • taxo_man
    12 years ago


    (coast redwood, end of November)
    We'll see how it holds up this winter.

    J

  • famartin
    Original Author
    12 years ago

    As of the other day...
    {{gwi:813204}}

  • jimho
    11 years ago

    one of our coastals is 11 years old - about 15 ft high - and is northern bergen.. we grew it from a seed and put it out for it's first winter at 2 years old. It seems to want to become deciduous, for after a particularly cold winter it is almost completely brown . . . this year very little brown and lots of spring growth. We've 3 younger growing on the property. and three sequoias. (dawn redwood, too).
    It's a very willowy plant, flexible and gentle. we've tried to plant all of them in a protected surrounding, initially. next to a natural screen - rhody, boxwood, skip laurel . . . sun does not seem to be the issue - rather shade, protection and humidity. remember they absorb MOST oif their water through their "leaves" and bark - not their roots.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    11 years ago

    emember they absorb MOST oif their water through their "leaves" and bark - not their roots

    This isn't true at all. As others have noted, they grow with ground irrigation in the very dry central valley of California. In fact, the biophysical reason they can't grow much higher than about 400 feet is that the suction required to get water that high is tremendous. It's true they get some water through their needles, but not all. The areas they occur naturally have generous winter rain in addition to the summer fog. (which may be absent for months at a time near the southern end of their range during coastal California's delayed warm season in Sept. & Oct.)

    BTW in addition to the east coast specimens I've mentioned earlier, the curator of the Barnes Foundation told me they've had a tree since 1971, which means it would have withstood the very cold winters of the late 70s and mid 80s. He didn't mention the size of it, however, and with that garden closed until further notice I'm not able to go check it out.

  • bengz6westmd
    11 years ago

    ****
    emember they absorb MOST oif their water through their "leaves" and bark - not their roots

    This isn't true at all.
    ****

    Quite right, David. Leaves have to be "water proof" to prevent drying out. The water transpiration is regulated by the stomata openings -- extreme drought will cause the stomata to pretty much close up.

    The leaves cannot afford the loss (or gain) of water thru the leaf surfaces themselves -- hence the waxy coatings.

    In fog belts the moisture is acquired by the leaves collecting water and then dripping to the ground, where the roots get it.

  • pineresin
    11 years ago

    Leaves can take up water, otherwise foliar feeds wouldn't work.

    Resin

  • famartin
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    After nearly 3 years in the ground. Since this is a test, don't worry about the fences... its not going to be allowed to get much bigger.

  • cliff98
    11 years ago

    Here is an updated picture of the S. sempervirens 'glauca' in Cincinnati, Ohio. I would say that in 2 years since posting the first picture it has nearly doubled in size. They have 2 on site and neither had any cold damage that was visible. We dipped to the single digits a few nights this past winter, but I don't think these have seen a true zone 6 winter and when they do, I expect damage, perhaps even killed to ground level. Nonetheless, I still like seeing them growing in my city!

  • taxo_man
    10 years ago

    Survived another winter! Tennis ball for scale.
    Jeff

  • famartin
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Here's mine in NJ, after its 4th winter (09-10, 10-11, 11-12, 12-13). There was a bit of kill from an early freeze which it wasn't quite prepared for... here it is before pruning, on May 4th:

  • famartin
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    And here it is on the 13th, after pruning...

  • famartin
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Growth was pretty good this summer. The pine and the barberries keep trying to invade its space so its lankier than it would be otherwise, but obviously pretty vigorous.

  • taxo_man
    10 years ago

    Nice! It grew a lot this year, looks great.
    I'll post mine again soon.
    J

  • nikkie_in_toronto
    10 years ago

    As a native Ohioan, I'm quite pleased to see that in Cincinnati, though I dont think Cincinnati or Cleveland have gotten below 0F for a few two or three years now. I wonder if there is increased cold hardiness in the glaucus varieties of Sequoia Sempervirens. I can certainly attest, first hand, that this does very well in the heat of the South. There are some beautiful plants in both Atlanta and Savannah.

  • taxo_man
    10 years ago

    Jeff

  • mesterhazypinetum
    10 years ago

    Top

  • famartin
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    This winter is turning out to be a big test, with January temps averaging almost 5 below normal and multiple days with highs in the teens and lows in the single digits. One day was below zero, though only slightly (-1). It still "looks" mostly green. We'll see how it looks in April or May.

  • taxo_man
    10 years ago

    Agreed. Mine is still alive but has tons of dieback..

    J

  • hairmetal4ever
    10 years ago

    February looks to be at least somewhat milder...we'll see what happens.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    10 years ago

    Tom Tasselmyer (such a Baltimorean name) is reporting that January was the 8th coldest January in Baltimore history. The official records for Baltimore go back to 1871 though the records prior to 1893 are not catalogued at SERCC. The average IIRC was 27F. Coldest ever was 1977 at 22F. The Barnes Foundation Sequoia was planted in 1971 so it would have survived that.
    None of mine have 'tons of dieback' so far. I'd say it varies from minimal dieback on the largest one, which is about 7' - mostly snow burn near the snow line - to 30% needle damage on my smallest plant. 'Atlanta' might be a hair tougher than 'Chapel Hill'/'Swarthmore'. 'Soquel' has the least damage but it is the big one. Lows were 3F, several times during the month, and a couple 48 h+ stretches that stayed below about 15F. FWIW Pseudotsuga sinensis has similar burning just above the snow line. We had the longest stretch of powdery snow "lying on ground" as the Brits say, that I can remember. 95% of the time here, powdery snow will be mush within 3 days. It stayed cold for so long that a lot of things show a ring of damage where light was reflected by the snow. Even something as hardy as Cryptomeria has completely dead branchlets in that zone.

    I think I might have posted earlier that I was surprised by how little damage there was in the first freeze. Sadly, the 2nd and 3rd were just too much for various plants. Particularly the 2nd round of snow, which was accompanied by even stronger winds than the first. Maybe they were more brittle because of the earlier freeze, but all of my arborescent Ericas (hey, they kinda look like conifers) were totally destroyed, stems split clear to the ground. I've never seen that in almost 20 years of growing Erica arborea alpina, for example. Not 'alpine' enough, apparently. The foliage was fine though. It's sad to see the green foliage attached to broken stems and dying from the point of the break upward. Camellias are ok so far, including 'Aida' which is the hardiest C. X williamsii, I was lucky I didn't go below 0F as most points about 15 miles north of me in York and Lancaster Cos. did.

  • famartin
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Last winter really cooked my Redwood's goose. Here's the latest photo... still a little green left but not much. It was certainly one of the colder winters... maybe it'll do a lot of resprouting from the older wood.

  • davidrt28 (zone 7)
    10 years ago

    I'm closing this thread because it is getting unwieldy. DO NOT POST HERE ANYMORE. Post to this thread:

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/conif/msg0402183730446.html

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